Mongoose OTU vs. GDW/DGP OTU

[WistfulD]

I think what we have here are different requirements for the term Hard Science. If you use the term as it is meant in the GURPS 3e sci-fi books "does not break known physical laws," then none of the versions are remotely hard sci, and not just because of FTL and non-rotation-based gravity on ships. On the other hand, none of the versions have space storms, universal translaters, laser swords, or traditional Star Trek/Wars-style force fields.

 

[rancke]

Is that the stated reason for it being decanonized?

So I've been told.

It certainly makes sense on the one hand, but it has been made pretty clear that MM has approved the MgT version of the OTU.

Marc has the privilege of changing his mind. In case he did, consider my remark changed to:

I've no problem with MgT wanting to facilitate Flash Gordon-style play; I just wish Marc Miller had made them do it in a different universe.
​

Hans

 

[rancke]

I think what we have here are different requirements for the term Hard Science. If you use the term as it is meant in the GURPS 3e sci-fi books "does not break known physical laws," then none of the versions are remotely hard sci, and not just because of FTL and non-rotation-based gravity on ships. On the other hand, none of the versions have space storms, universal translaters, laser swords, or traditional Star Trek/Wars-style force fields.

To me, it's not really about the hardness of the science; it's about the self-consistency of the setting. Yes, the old Traveller Imperial tech levels were a trifle mundane, especially in the light of three decades of new technology and new science fiction. It may even crimp the adventure possibilities of the setting (though I myself believe that those who think so is selling the setting short -- IMO there is plenty of scope for adventures in the Third Imperium). But that's the setting. It's geared for a certain flavor of adventures, something like the stories of Anderson, de Camp, Norton, Piper, Schmidt, Tubb, Vance, etc.. It's not geared for nanotech and mind transfers. If you want that sort of technology, you should create a new setting for it. Not co-opt the Third Imperium.


Hans

 

[aramis]

Is that the stated reason for it being decanonized? Or did it simply get overwritten as part of various "company land grants" being revoked? It certainly makes sense on the one hand, but it has been made pretty clear that MM has approved the MgT version of the OTU.

In any case I have always been a fan of the Paranoia Press supplements.

Pretty much everything but DGP was decanonized in 1984... See Atlas of the Imperium's text blurb.

More correctly, it is that nothing published by 3rd party publishers was canon until DGP did MT. Some of the elements did become canon once published by GDW.

 

[salochin999]

I think what we have here are different requirements for the term Hard Science. If you use the term as it is meant in the GURPS 3e sci-fi books "does not break known physical laws," then none of the versions are remotely hard sci, and not just because of FTL and non-rotation-based gravity on ships. On the other hand, none of the versions have space storms, universal translaters, laser swords, or traditional Star Trek/Wars-style force fields.

I've heard a lot of people say Traveller is more hard science and so it must mean something. My guess is the sort of movies they picture when they think of Traveller have a more hard sciencey feel. So I think it's more of a genre thing like Traveller is more "Aliens" than "Star Wars."

 

[salochin999]

First, I am a massive, massive fan of the GDW/DGP OTU (the Rebellion and Virus, meh, but DGP pre-MT was great, great stuff IMO) but I've been digesting the Mongoose Third Imperium works and I have to say that the setting seems more... fun?

...

The OTU needs cracks in it for the players to roam around in and once you give it some cracks it works well imo and from what you're saying it sounds like that's what Mongoose have done.

 

[exedore6]

Jump-1 is roughly (give or take) about 170.0c. So a (roughly) month-duration drive (for 1.0pc range) would fall somewhere around 40.0c.

I'd done a bit of math on this recently. 40c is about the speed of the Nostromo in Alien. (44c fully loaded according to the AvP wiki, 157c unladen)

I've been thinking similar things, that IMTU, there is a non-jump based FTL tech (maybe stutterwarp, maybe something else) that maxes out around jump-1 (and isn't economic at those speeds) (and hypersleep is a little safer - not much, but if you take your time and have good equipment, the worst a marine would have to deal with is a nasty hangover)

 

[nobby-w]

The OTU does not preclude other spacefaring races.

IIRC, Grandfather provided the Zhodani with their special future seeing psionic artifact so that they would undertake the core-expeditions and eventually find the Primordials -- the race that our "Ancients" would consider to be their "Ancients."

There are also other indications of races that have visited this part of the galaxy. Remember the CT adventure Shadows (double adventure 1)?

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

Although the presence of coyns suggests Droyne involvement. However I think this may have been written before the concept was completely formed, as there is no other mention of Droyne being able to breathe class-C atmospheres.

 

[Dagrill]

While the jury is still debating whether or not you are indeed "off your rocker", I can say that I too am impressed with the way the Trojan Reach is handled by Mongoose. Granted I haven't played CT since the 80s and skipped over everything between that and MgT, but I agree with your analysis of the Reach.

Mongoose has made the sector a frontier. You have the Third Imperium on one side, Aslan on the other, a handful of smaller political entities, and a ton of non-aligned worlds that range from lifeless rocks to high tech meccas.

Ditto as regards Mongoose and Trojan Reach, I tried GURPs and T20 and Gateway as well, but GURPS & T20 lacked the feel of Traveller.

CT emphasised the frontiers as well with Spinward Marches and Solomani Rim.

Regards

David

 

[GypsyComet]

Pretty much everything but DGP was decanonized in 1984... See Atlas of the Imperium's text blurb.

More correctly, it is that nothing published by 3rd party publishers was canon until DGP did MT. Some of the elements did become canon once published by GDW.

FASA got quite a lot of their stuff to stick, and there was really no doubt that it would, even when they departed the licensed fold.