Multi-classing confusion

[jolt]

According to page 34 of the Rulebook under "Multiclassing", it states that the system encourages you to multiclass and gives the example of an Academic switching over to a more combat oreitated class to improve such abilities. Yet the restrictions placed on those classes would forbid the Academic from doing so. In fact multiclassing into almost any profession except the Traveller and Professional seems very difficult at best.

For example, if I start of as a Rogue, I don't see any way that I could ever qualify to multiclass into Army, Marines, Navy, Scouts, or Mercenary. Merchants is highly unlikely and Belter and Barbarian are impossible. I could do Traveller and probably Professional or Academic but that's it. I certainly can't see any way for their own example of an Academic switching to a Mercenary to work. The multiclassing requirements for Mercenary forbid it.

For "encouraging" you to multiclass the system actually seems one of the most restrictive I've seen. What am I missing here?

jolt

 

[far-trader]

Welcome aboard jolt

Hmm, how to explain this? I'm not sure what you're missing either but it isn't hard to multiclass.

Let's take the Academic wannabe Mercenary as an example, since it is but take it step by step.

First off our initial Class will be Academic. No problem, all we need to do is meet the initial requirements (we'll take it as a given since it is our choice as initial Class).

Next we need to pick an initial Prior History path for the first Term. Let's go with Army. You'll see why in a minute. Note that we don't have to (always*) match Class and Prior History. It is a good idea to come up a rationale for it as part of the "character".

* some Classes are limited to certain Prior History choices, Like the Army Class for example.

So we generate our first Term as an Army recruit, beginning with 1 level as Academic. We have 6000xp to spend for our four year hitch with the Army which makes us 4th level. What shall we spend our other 3 levels on?

We are free to do Academic Class of course (an Army instructor for example, or just the usual Army studies), and since we are in the Army we can also take levels in Army Class by multiclassing, as long as we are fit enough (Strength 10+ and Dexterity 8+, pretty easy).

We decide to split things up evenly and take another level of Academic Class and two levels of Army Class.

We are 2nd Level Academic and 2nd Level Army, and we muster out to move on to the much more lucrative private sector.

Time to choose our Prior History for the second Term. We're out of the Army so we can't take that again this term (but the next Term or a later one it might be possible). As a side note we also can't take levels in the Army Class either this term as we have to be active in the Army (Prior History) for that.

Let's make it easy and take Mercenary Prior History (though we could just as easily take Traveller Prior History, or just about any with a good story behind it).

Also we wouldn't have to take Mercenary Prior History to take levels in Mercenary Class (which is our goal).

So we cycle through Mercenary Prior History and after four years we have earned 9000xp more for a total of 15,000xp and added two levels. We take one level as Mercenary Class multiclassing by the simple virtue of having met the requirement by serving a Term in the Army (and Navy or Marine would have done as well). What shall we do with our other level? We could take another level of Academic Class, or put it to 1st level in Traveller Class as another multiclass since there are no requirements, or even multiclass a level in Rogue Class if we have taken the Connections/Underworld Feat at some time.

Hope that helps a bit, and if not ask away and someone will answer or point you to a thread here. Or you can look for some yourself with the search function.

 

[far-trader]

So I think you can see that multiclassing is easy, and encouraged, certainly more so than D&D. That said though it's my experience that taking it too far is not the way to build a competant character. It's too easy to make a Jack-of-all-trades but Master-of-no-trade and the game seems to favor having at least one trade mastered.

 

[mike wightman]

I found that I only understood character creation once I'd divorced class names from prior history career title.

Decide your prior career first in order to get the XP to spend per term, and then pick the class levels you want to take.

Try to keep in mind the class levels you want to take though.

For example, using Dan's first term on the Army above, a character who takes Army2/Academic2 is very different from one who takes Army2/Rogue2, or one who takes Army1/Rogue1/Academic1/Professional1 etc.



Note that the class levels you take don't have to match the career you are in, a five term Merchant veteran might never take a level in the Merchant class.

And a thought for all munchkins everywhere - if you are planning on multiclassing, always take your first level in the class that gets you the most skill points

 

[jolt]

Ah, thanks. You've made it very clear and it now makes complete sense.

I thought that you had to take the levels in whatever prior history you were in. I should have realized this was wrong just by virtue of how the University works (where your "career" is University but you're earning XP for your "class"; whatever it happens to be).

Not having played any previous version of Traveller (for whatever difference that might make) I wish they had made the career/class/prior history thing a little more clear. It makes perfect sense now that you guys explained it but I would never have figured it out from the rules as written (and their character creatio example doesn't help either).

Thanks again.

jolt

 

[jolt]

After further reading of the rules, I'm not sure that your description of multiclassing is accurate. I'm looking at the Prior History Chapter under Employment (p.124) where it says:

"If a character is not at least 1st level in a class, they may not take employment as a member of that class. For example, a newly created 1st level Traveller may only choose to seek employment for their first term as a Traveller. If during the course of development, this character multiclasses as a member of the Merchant class, he may then choose to seek employment as either a Traveller or Merchant."

So I don't see how that Academic, at first level could take his first employment in the Army. Nor do I see how a character could take five terms of Merchant without being one.

It also says later on (same page under Enlisting or getting a Job) "A character may only be an active member of one service or profession at a time during Prior History, but once they muster-out they may attempt to enter a different service or profession."

So unless I'm missing something (which is certainly possible), all your explanations and examples sound completely illegal to me (as the rules are written).

jolt

 

[archhealer]

Much as I do enjoy T20, parts of the THB are poorly and unclearly written, and lots of contradictions and gaps in the rules made it through playtesting and editing.

As such, just make it work for you. I allow characters to enter a profession without any levels in it, provided that they take at least one level in it during that term.

I also allow characters enrolled in OTC programs in university to take service-classes. I figure, there's probably millitary schools out there, and that'd serve much the same purpose as OTC.

 

[far-trader]

That's a confusing bit but you may have me. The way I read it is you need the level in the Class to pursue the Prior History for non-service classes only. The line after your quote, "Anyone may attempt to enlist in a service... " seems to exclude the military Prior History choices from that.

That's how I think the Academic (class) could take Army (Prior History) experience but I could be wrong.

It does look like my example after that of going into Mercenary Prior History would be wrong since we don't have level of Mercenary yet. And yet I don't see the Army saying OK be a Mercenary while we pay the bill, nor does it make sense to me then that the prerequisite for Mercenary Prior History is serving a term in a Service Prior History.

UGH! You're bringing back bad memories of when the book first came out and the frustration (which you're no doubt feeling fresh) of trying to make some sense of this. And I guess what I had come up with was more the way felt it should be than the rules. I'm sure many of the rules make perfect sense to the people writing them but they didn't do the greatest job presenting them, partly I feel because the playtests weren't done terribly well.

Sorry jolt, not trying to discourage you and my mad is not directed at you, but I need to drop this for the moment or I'll be wanting again to tear up my book

Somewhere on the boards here are the old discussions of this and I seem to recall even an well outlined description of how it works.

 

[Spinward Scout]

I wonder if there is any way we could petition to have a T20.5 made of the rules. It sounds like The Player's Guide is on permanent hiatus. If we could get permission to combine the two books and get the d20 System license so we don't have to require a core rule book it would ROCK! I also wouldn't mind taking a shot at editing the thing. 450 pages of black and white is hard on the eyes when you compare it to the other d20 books out there. The little bit of color in the one section didn't seem like enough. And as a previous Graphic Designer, the glaring use of white space and mismatched font sizes made it seem amaturish to me. Anyone else up for a Project Proposal?

Dameon

 

[archhealer]

There is also the 'multiclass requirements' in each class. I.e. "Must have at least one term in a service class" or "Be from a spacefaring world" etc. Traveller: "Anyone may become a traveller". I think if you allow these to preclude the other printed rules you'll be alright.

 

[mike wightman]

It does make a lot of sense to be required to take at one level in the class that is named for the career you are in at the time.

To clarify the merchant thing earlier, you could be a level8 professional with a merchant background.

As for the Army/Academic, serving the first term at University and joining the OTC should allow you to take levels in Army and Academic.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by far-trader:
So I think you can see that multiclassing is easy, and encouraged, certainly more so than D&D. That said though it's my experience that taking it too far is not the way to build a competant character. It's too easy to make a Jack-of-all-trades but Master-of-no-trade and the game seems to favor having at least one trade mastered.

Hehehe. Voice of experience Dan? So you saying your next character would be more focused?

With some of the high rolls required for seeming routine operations in T20. (Hitting someone wearing Combat Armor, Docking a Starship, Defusing a bomb, finding something with Ship's sensors, etc.)

Building too broad a character isn't something I recommend. Find something you like and build that up well first then worry about multi-classing. Have your second class complement your first class and don't go in a completely different direction. Some classes, particularily the Service Classes, you can't advance once you are actually playing the game, so you need to multi-class. Good combinations are Army or Marine to Mercenary. (Especially if you want to be a seriously effective combat master then Marine to Mercenary is probably your best combination.) Navy or Scout to Ace Pilot is another good choice. If you want lots of skills and don't need or want combat capability, then Traveller or Professional are excellent choices.

Remember one other thing. The farther you advance the tougher it is to gain levels. Granted, in many cases, you can become an instant expert in a single skill the first level you take in a new class, but that doesn't offset the stuff you have been working on to that point to be an expert in that category.

For good broad based characters, I personally prefer Scout (Still a great career to be a general adventurer.), and Traveller as with those two there is little need to actually multi-class, especially if you heed my advice and remember that, no matter what character class you choose, your highest attribute belongs in Intelligence. (Followed by Dexterity, then worry about what you want the character to be to place the rest of your stats.)

Just a little experience as to what works based on observation of players in my campaign.

 

[Shadowdancer]

I've had good success starting characters out with one term (and at least one class level) of Belter, then multiclassing into other things.

A) You get to start the Prior History 4 years younger.
B) You get access to a good selection of usable 'space' skills.

 

[opensent]

Yeah, Belter is a nice BAB+10 (@ level 20) 6 Skill point class for starting out.

The big negative about the class is the survial rolls required to make it through most terms. They key is take advange of the 'head down and taking no risks' die modifiers to the rolls. Sure you miss out on the cash and XP bonuses, but you run a big risk of wasting your whole term otherwise (no XP when you don't survive).

 

[opensent]

I create a thread in the Traveller for the D20 system are devoted to fun multi-class combos. All the ones I posted are book legal, based on my understanding of the book (which admittedly, can be confusing). Check it out for ideas!

 

[Chaos]

Speaking of starting out younger, I instituted a house rule that character with a starting Soc score of 7 or less (that is, modifier -2 or worse) can start a Rogue career as Young Adults - effectively, they grew up on the street and were forced to start working a little earlier than usual.

 

[archhealer]

I waas thinking just the other day that Starting Rogues should have that option. I mean, it's not like the Mob cares if you have your high school diploma...

Also, i was thinking that Army/Infantry type characters from low-tech worlds (Say, 6 or less) should be able to take levels in Army as young adults. Really, all the recruiters cared about was if you were tall enough to hold a spear/load a gun, and if you had enough teeth to eat the nasty, hard rations you were gonna get.