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Multi positions crewmemebers

McPerth

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From TTB (CT), page 61:

one person may fill two crew positions, providing he or she has the skills needed for both jobs. However, because of the added burden, each position is filled with skill minus one, and the individual draws salary equal to 75% of each position (...)

While I understand this added burden when the person has to make both jobs in a continuous or simultaneous basis (e.g. Pilot/Engineer on a Scout ship, Pilot/Gunner on a fighter), so deserving this -1 modifier to his/her skill, other positions combinations may be filled with less burden by the same person, mostly when at least one of the jobs is not required continuously, either because the jobs are fully compatible (e.g. Pilot/Navigator), used at distinct moments (e.g. Steward/Gunner) or some combination of both causes (e.g. Steward/Medic). In this last cases, I don't see this -1 modifier to the skills is justified.

Also, the way the salaries are rated may lead to some instances where the crewmember earns in fact less than with a single position: e.g. you have a ship that carries two fighters, while the main Pilot earns 6000 Cr a month, the fighter pilots, as they double as gunners in their fighters, earn only 5250 (75% of 6000+1000) Cr a month. Similarly, if you ask your stewards (who earn 3000 Cr a month) to double as gunners, their salaries will remain the same (75% of 3000 + 1000).

So I've always applied 2 changes to this rule:

-In some combinations (as told above) this -1 is not applied.

-The salary earned by a crewmember filling two positions is the highest salary plus half of the second one. So a fighter pilot, doubling as gunner in the fighter, would earn 6000 + 1000/2, so 6500 Cr a month, a Pilot/Navigator will earn 8500 (6000 + 5000/2) and a Steward/gunner will learn 3500 (3000 + 1000/2). Of course salaries are higher this way (for crewmembers doubling), but still lower than two crewmembers (and take less space and life support).
 
From TTB (CT), page 61: While I understand this added burden when the person has to make both jobs in a continuous or simultaneous basis (e.g. Pilot/Engineer on a Scout ship, Pilot/Gunner on a fighter), so deserving this -1 modifier to his/her skill, other positions combinations may be filled with less burden by the same person, mostly when at least one of the jobs is not required continuously, either because the jobs are fully compatible (e.g. Pilot/Navigator), used at distinct moments (e.g. Steward/Gunner) or some combination of both causes (e.g. Steward/Medic). In this last cases, I don't see this -1 modifier to the skills is justified.

Quite correct. Emergency action stations (gunner on a merchant) shouldn't count. Just because the steward-2 has the hat of Damage Control E.R. during an emergency doesn't mean he acts as steward-1 during normal operation...

The naval W.Q.S.B. comes to mind...
 
Could you please tell those of us without Navy experience what do those letters stand for?

Watch Quarters Station Bill

The typical watch, quarter, and station (WQS) bill is filled in with pencil. Updates reflect changes, such as personnel gains or losses, promotions, or reassignment of responsibilities. The WQS bill lists every person assigned to your division and their major assignments. By referring to the battle bill, you may extract the following information:

Billet numbers
Watch-station titles
Division responsible for filling the billet
Main rate required to fill the billet
Navy enlisted classification coded (NEC) required to perform the watch-station task ... http://navyadvancement.tpub.com/14148/css/14148_33.htm
 
personally, I add both positions as if each one was there only job then subtract 25% from the total. Also don't forget to add the skill bonus (pilot -3 = 7200Cr/month [6000 base + 20%(10% for each level above 1)]
 
I suppose the -1 comes from having less time to spend on study & training to keep current with changes in regulations, markets, etc (steward) and to keep those gunnery skills at peak form (gunner).

Don't forget the added physical & emotional stress of keeping up with 2 jobs (paperwork, etc) reducing your mental clarity and response times..
 
personally, I add both positions as if each one was there only job then subtract 25% from the total. Also don't forget to add the skill bonus (pilot -3 = 7200Cr/month [6000 base + 20%(10% for each level above 1)]

THey the problem still stands. You have a fighter pilot who is Pilot 3 (and so Ship's Boat 2) and Gunnery 2. As he fills both positions, he will act as Ship's Boat 2 Gunnery 1 when piloting his/her fighter.

His/her salary as pilot would be 7200 cr/month. As fighter pilot (and so doubling tasks) he/she will earn 6225 Cr/month ((7200+1100)-25%) if you count true skill, and to 5250 ((6000 + 1000)-25%) if effective skill is counted (so, after skill reductions for Pilot to Ship's Boat and doubling tasks). Do you think he/she will accept this job if a ship's Pilot is available?

Likewise, if you have a Steward 3 Gunnery 1 character, as a steward he/she will earn 3600 Cr/month. If you ask him/her to double as gunner, salary is reduced to 3450 Cr/month ((3600 + 1000)-25%). You'll need to be quite convincing for him/her to accept...
 
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I suppose the -1 comes from having less time to spend on study & training to keep current with changes in regulations, markets, etc (steward) and to keep those gunnery skills at peak form (gunner).

Don't forget the added physical & emotional stress of keeping up with 2 jobs (paperwork, etc) reducing your mental clarity and response times..

So, you think that this steward that doubles as gunner in emergencies (hopefully very few times, and when this is needed I think the passengers will understand the steward is busy and accept any inconvenience this may lead to) deserves the same skill reduction that the fighter pilot that is at once piloting the fighter and firing its weapons, or that the lonly scout that has to act as Pilot and Engineer in his/her scout/courrier?

I'm afraid I must disagree. In CT where skill levels are so precious, I think this is a too severe penalty for that ocasional added burden.
 
personally, I add both positions as if each one was there only job then subtract 25% from the total. Also don't forget to add the skill bonus (pilot -3 = 7200Cr/month [6000 base + 20%(10% for each level above 1)]

Personally I have my doubts about the skill bonus to pay. I can see some free trader captains being willing to pay extra for extra skill, but mostly I see Tukera Lines paying more for its crew than free traders and then hire the ones with greater skill, leaving the leftovers to the free traders, who will be forced to employ whatever they can get.

(Note that "whatever they can get" could be someone highly skilled but blacklisted; someone desperate enough to take a job that paid well below what his skills were worth.)

I see the pay scales as another game artifact that serves as a guideline to referees and players. "What does he offer to pay? Is that a reasonable figure?" "He'll pay Cr6600 per month because he really needs another astrogator. That's 10% above the norm." Or "He offers Cr3000 per month. That's a lousy offer, but the next ship to visit this backwater dump could be six months from now." Or "With my skill of Astrogator-3 I can get a job that pays Cr7800 per month on any Tukera ship!" "Yeah, but Tukera isn't hiring."

I sauppose one could invoke some labor union type regulations that mandated the canonical pay scales, but that would require some sort of official certification to establish the official (in-game) skill levels.


Hans
 
Yeah, I take crew salaries to be the megacorp (Merchant) norms.

The simple solution to the OPs salary problem is for secondary positions, defined as lower paid ones, simply adding 75% for each secondary, rather than 75% of all salaries. Then it would work, even with skill penalties and 10% skill bonuses.

IMTU, free trader 'salaries' are all over the page - from working passage to a simple share of profits, with passage plus allotment, pay (i.e. crew 'lives' aboard ship) and/or bonus (extra pay when profits are good enough or after owners profits are accounted for). Each career has salaries, adjusted by rank and annual cost-of-living, adjusted by SOC (military careers get less, but have lower c-o-l). Salaries are closer together; Medics get paid more than Stewards; and, skill levels are worth a lot more.
 
Medics get paid more than Stewards; and, skill levels are worth a lot more.

This may be a Solomani bias, as Medics are highly priced for Solomani. But for Vilani, a good Steward may well have the status of a Shugilil, while a medic can be seen just as another artisan (inferred from V&V page 16)
 
I sauppose one could invoke some labor union type regulations that mandated the canonical pay scales, but that would require some sort of official certification to establish the official (in-game) skill levels.


Hans

Several example characters show some form of standardized certification of "equipment qualified on" which tends to imply having passed a qualification test.
 
Several example characters show some form of standardized certification of "equipment qualified on" which tends to imply having passed a qualification test.

Which doesn't mean they know how to use it, and less so what skill level is held....

As an example, I have driver licence (so I can put in my curriuculum vitae a car as "equipment qualified on" and I passed the qualification test), but god takes pity of anyone near (not only inside) any car I try to drive now, about 20 years after I tried last time...
 
Which doesn't mean they know how to use it, and less so what skill level is held....

As an example, I have driver licence (so I can put in my curriuculum vitae a car as "equipment qualified on" and I passed the qualification test), but god takes pity of anyone near (not only inside) any car I try to drive now, about 20 years after I tried last time...

IRL such certs are far more heavily tested than DL's (in US states) and have to be renewed/tested more often. But, still, competence will vary.
 
IRL such certs are far more heavily tested than DL's (in US states) and have to be renewed/tested more often.

Believe me I hope so...

And in the case of my driver's licence is in Spain, and renewed every 10 years, but only medical examination, and not a though one, is required...
 
Believe me I hope so...

And in the case of my driver's licence is in Spain, and renewed every 10 years, but only medical examination, and not a though one, is required...

The initial test in España is a LOT tougher than in the States too..
 
In the Real World, for the US and I believe Canada, the Coast Guard administers the tests for licensing ship's crewmembers and establishes the competency standards. I have the Scout Service doing this in the Traveller Universe. Does anyone have any other group or thoughts on this?
 
when this is needed I think the passengers will understand the steward is busy and accept any inconvenience this may lead to).
Hahaha. You'd be surprised. There are lots of people that wouldn't understand that at all. Which makes for some interesting interactions. :)
 
In the Real World, for the US and I believe Canada, the Coast Guard administers the tests for licensing ship's crewmembers and establishes the competency standards. I have the Scout Service doing this in the Traveller Universe. Does anyone have any other group or thoughts on this?

I also have the IISS doing so.
 
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