My First MGT Game.

[Icosahedron]

I've just joined my first MGT PbP game, and I had a few first impressions that I thought I'd share. I'll use this thread to drop a few more thoughts in from time to time.

It doesn't have to be a monologue, though, We learn by discussion, too, so feel free to chip in.

Anyway, first impressions - two of each:

Several important bits missing - almost like the designers wrote the core with the intention of generating future supplement sales... Like, how much does my character earn? There are a number of careers listed to chargen from, but only the traditional crew positions have salaries specified.
Apparently, there's no way to increase stats in game via experience, and you can learn skills too quickly - I'd have made the learning time units months rather than weeks.

I really like the point buy system. It seems to be really well thought out and generates good anti-munchkin characters. As with any point buy, it encourages min-maxing, but that's not a game fault.
The pocketbook (my only possession to date) is well laid out and easy to read, (EDIT: with appropriate visual aids for the more mature reader) with a useful index.

 

[PathfinderAP]

Mongoose doesn't just have point buy character gen (and if I remember right Andy Slacks version was better, shame his pdf isn't up any more )

 

[Icosahedron]

Never seen Andy's rule AFAIK (though it might be in my file collection somewhere).

I hadn't noticed official point buy in any other version, apart from the umpteen page Gurps system (not that I've really looked), but the Mongoose system impressed me with the fact that it works well, yet it fits on a post-it note. If another system works slightly better but takes sixteen pages and a scientific calculator, it's somehow less impressive to me.
And yes, I've already tweaked it with a couple of houserule mods, but it's still not bloated.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Apparently, there's no way to increase stats in game via experience, and you can learn skills too quickly - I'd have made the learning time units months rather than weeks.

Clarification please. Does "Stats" refer to characteristics, skills, or both?

Regarding increasing skills via experience, here are methods that are variations of someone else's concept. Your skill level is increased by rolling natural 12's when using the skill. One method requires record keeping. You need to roll current skill level+1 natural 12's for a skill to increase it. The second method is random. After a natural 12 is rolled, a d6 needs to be rolled and if the result is higher than the current skill level, it is increased. A more complicated version only considers the natural 12's if the difficulty of the task is high enough. You only consider natural 12's for obtaining skill levels <= the following.
Simple 0
Easy 1
Routine 2
Average 3
Difficult 4
Very Difficult 5
Formidable 6
Another concept is that you can also learn from your mistakes and gain levels with natural rolls of 2. If you survive.

Regarding the speed for learning skills, I think it is both too fast AND to slow. The time is variable for the exact same skill and level. Its possible for one character to learn a level 3 skill in weeks while it takes another character over a year to learn a level 1 skill. I don't like that the length of time to learn varies based on what you already know (and the more you know the HARDER it is to learn something new) and not how 'smart' the character is.

I understand this is a game mechanic so that characters within a group tend to stay 'balanced'.

 

[PathfinderAP]

Clarification please. Does "Stats" refer to characteristics, skills, or both?

It is covered in his sentence,

"no way to increase stats in game"

and

"and you can learn skills too quickly"


Stats = traits, abilities, Str, End, Dex, Int, Edu, Soc, etc, aka STATS :

 

[CosmicGamer]

It is covered in his sentence,

"no way to increase stats in game"

and

"and you can learn skills too quickly"


Stats = traits, abilities, Str, End, Dex, Int, Edu, Soc, etc, aka STATS :

Sorry, but it is "there's no way to increase stats in game via experience" so I am still unsure. Because via experience is stated, I even think a 'typo' is possible and Icosahedron is saying there should be a way to increase skills via experience as well as through training. You very well could be right, but I'm not sure why the assumption is that stats = characteristics and can't be characteristics + skills. Not applicable here, but for some people, stats might include sex, age, and other things too. It's not a term used in the book that I recall and is certainly not a universally defined thing. What are the stats for a WW2 tank, a football running back, the video card in a computer, a baseball pitcher...

 

[PathfinderAP]

You are thinking of the general use of the term "statistics"
Then you may as well be discussing Baseball Players,

But this is a Roleplaying game, and in all my years I've never heard anyone call their "Skills" "Stats"

Stats are Stats man, it goes back to D&D

 

[CosmicGamer]

PathfinderAP, I 100% understand why you are saying this.

I also know that people don't always see things the same way because they have different backgrounds and I'm asking for clarification from the original poster. As I said, you may have come to the correct conclusion. I would have figured the same too if the 'via experience' was not there. For me, characteristics would be more likely to be increased via training (weight training, yoga, meditation? and such) and not experience. Str, Dex, and End can, in a way, be enhanced by training in athletics.

The two of us discussing this is not getting us anywhere. I still would like to get clarification from the original poster and not use my own, or other peoples conclusions.

 

[FreeTrav]

This sort of confusion is why I don't like calling anything 'stats' - STR, DEX, etc., are CHARACTERISTICS, and Admin, Streetwise, Tactics, etc., are SKILLS.

 

[OIT]

Apparently, there's no way to increase stats in game via experience, and you can learn skills too quickly - I'd have made the learning time units months rather than weeks.

I noticed the same thing. I recently posted a houserule in the MGT House rules thread that may scratch that itch.

Overall, I'm fairly pleased with MgT so far.

 

[Icosahedron]

For the record, guys, by 'stats' I meant 'characteristics', and by 'experience' I meant 'anything you do post-muster'.

MGT allows you to increase your skills - well-noted glitch there, Cosmic - but your characteristics seem to be with you for life once you muster. Unless it's covered in one of those supplements...

Sometime I'll take a look at those houserules, and make my own, but for now I'm just noting my opinions of the rules as I playtest them in the PbP game.
I'm unlikely to GM pure MGT anyway, I'm just looking for anything useful I can import into my 30 yr old custom Traveller ruleset.

 

[coliver988]

For the record, guys, by 'stats' I meant 'characteristics', and by 'experience' I meant 'anything you do post-muster'.

MGT allows you to increase your skills - well-noted glitch there, Cosmic - but your characteristics seem to be with you for life once you muster. Unless it's covered in one of those supplements...<snip>

In real life it is really hard to increase physical characteristics after about 30 or so. Takes a LOT of work & determination, although I imagine drugs (steroids and whatever else comes along in the next few thousand years, including even nano-technology such as in Modessit's (sp?) various series or sort of like Jake 2.0 from a few years back on TV) would make it easier.

But as a 45 year old in RL: I have to run a lot to maintain any sort of mileage, and I need to go to the gym 4-7 times a week to just maintain my dwindling strength.

And somewhere on this forum is a lengthy discussion on increasing physical characteristics (nee stats). Or was that the Mongoose forum (when does the INT aging roll start again?)

 

[CosmicGamer]

(when does the INT aging roll start again?)

There is no Int aging roll in MGT. By the way, there is no aging roll for Dex, Str or any other specific stat. Depending on the results, you reduce physical and eventually mental characteristics. Reducing a mental characteristic (which one is chosen by the character) occurs on a -6 effect on the aging roll. Aging rolls start at 34yo. The first time there is a chance of a mental characteristic being effected is at 50yo, if my calculation is correct. (Aging roll of 2, -8DM for terms)

Icosahedron, characteristics certainty shouldn't be with you for the rest of your life. They typically go down as a person ages so even after chargen, every 4 years there should be an aging roll once the character reaches 34yo.

 

[Icosahedron]

Icosahedron, characteristics certainty shouldn't be with you for the rest of your life. They typically go down as a person ages so even after chargen, every 4 years there should be an aging roll once the character reaches 34yo.

On this occasion, Cosmic, I'm pretty sure you know what I meant.

The only problem I have with the stats is inconsistency.
If you remain in the services, you can get points added to your characteristics throughout your career, even when you're over 50, but if you muster early and spend your life as an adventurer, your characteristics can never exceed their muster level. For consistency, I like to think of 'Adventurer' as a career, and your ability to develop your character should continue at pretty much the same pace through your life whether you muster early or late. I've yet to see a Traveller ruleset that successfully accomplishes this.

 

[CosmicGamer]

On this occasion, Cosmic, I'm pretty sure you know what I meant.

No, I wasn't sure if you were thinking of CT (or other versions?) where I believe you do roll aging for each individual characteristic.

The only problem I have with the stats is inconsistency. If you remain in the services, you can get points added to your characteristics throughout your career, even when you're over 50, but if you muster early and spend your life as an adventurer, your characteristics can never exceed their muster level. For consistency, I like to think of 'Adventurer' as a career, and your ability to develop your character should continue at pretty much the same pace through your life whether you muster early or late. I've yet to see a Traveller ruleset that successfully accomplishes this.

I see what you are getting at, but wouldn't the ability of a character to improve physical characteristics when over 50 be something that is illogical and needs to be corrected and not mimicked?

Chargen is obviously not perfect. Why can't an average citizen and many other careers improve their Str and Dex?

I usually 'rollplay' during chargen that any roll for physical stat increases once a character starts aging is an attempt to thwart aging and maintain physique. When selecting which characteristic(s) aging effects, I choose any that may have been increased that term.

As mentioned earlier, there is a mechanism already provided to increase physical performance by increasing the athletic skill. Perhaps you make a very small tweak to this and alter the characteristic instead of the skill.

 

[Icosahedron]

No, I wasn't sure if you were thinking of CT (or other versions?) where I believe you do roll aging for each individual characteristic.

Ok... what I meant by 'with you for life' is that you can't increase them. I'd taken ageing in some form as a given.

I see what you are getting at, but wouldn't the ability of a character to improve physical characteristics when over 50 be something that is illogical and needs to be corrected and not mimicked?

Chargen is obviously not perfect. Why can't an average citizen and many other careers improve their Str and Dex?

I usually 'rollplay' during chargen that any roll for physical stat increases once a character starts aging is an attempt to thwart aging and maintain physique. When selecting which characteristic(s) aging effects, I choose any that may have been increased that term.

As mentioned earlier, there is a mechanism already provided to increase physical performance by increasing the athletic skill. Perhaps you make a very small tweak to this and alter the characteristic instead of the skill.

I wasn't commenting on whether chargen was correct, I was just saying that 'Adventurer' should be a career like any other, with the same chances for self-improvement - no better, and no worse. From there, you can 'correct' careers as you like, but your corrections will apply to all careers - including Adventurer.

Edit: Before you mention it, I'm aware of the obvious disadvantage - that most games only follow a character through a few months of life, a couple of years at most, and so in-game improvement that mimicks chargen will result in effectively static characters. Nevertheless, I think this should be the logical standard from which individual GMs choose to deviate when they 'liven up' their game.

 

[WarriorKnight]

In my MgT I have each character give my a couple die rolls for his next 4 yrs & I use the Drifter career for the new skill level/characteristic adv they get.I look at what they are working on & adjust for it. Most of the group is working on Endurance training(all but one have a 3 or 4 end & the one who had a high end(11) is working on dex(3),people don't like to stand next to him in ranged combat.)