Nanites for ship hull repair

[highpriest_rsw2]

Neat idea I thought up.
using nanites for hull repair on ships.
Also, How about a modified sandcaster that fires nanites designed to wreak havoc on other ships?

 

[flykiller]

using nanites for hull repair on ships.
Also, How about a modified sandcaster that fires nanites designed to wreak havoc on other ships?

achieving macro results from molecular activities is slow. might make a good long-term biological poison, or long term mechanical "poison".

 

[Anthony]

Generally speaking, 'nanites' are not part of the Traveller paradigm, as as they're also physically dubious, there's no compelling reason to add them to the TU.

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

Give it another 5 years, and "Dubious" will be at the trade shows. Some of the new bots are pretty small. I just went to a seminar over at the Albany center for nano tech, and I got the impression that it is going to be a pretty big boom in at least tiny robotics. I still think we got some time before molecular sized ones, but its coming. Some engineers are already working theoretically at that scale.

 

[Anthony]

Oh, small systems will happen. Drexlerian Nanotech is prone to violations of thermodynamics, however, and won't happen.

 

[Commander Drax]

What were really talking about are microbots, far larger than anything on the nano scale, but I've got no problem with them being deployed to repair a hull, by forming a temporary patch made from interlinking chains or layers of bots that lock together over a breach. As for nano-bots however I think they would have to be deployed on a huge scale to start eating away at a starship hull (even a small one), a small deployment chewing away at the hull over a long period of time, might be an interesting way to rid yourselves of an enemy without being obviously beligerent.

 

[Anthony]

Microbots still have substantial issues with power sources and synchronization (same as the general issues with nanobots -- just they become easier to solve as the scale increases and the number of active components drops).

 

[The Hinterworlds Rambler]

The one problem remains of material replacement. If the microbots behaved as leafcutter ants in organization, they could potentially repair larger hull breaches. I would think that using just the linked microbots would require a ton of them. They would be more effective if they had a way to bring repair materials to the damage site.

The current t20 design I am working on is a tenth of a ton model (140vl) it is designed to go out onto the hull ans slap plates onto any kind of hole. A rack of ten takes up about 1580vl in the ship's internal system. They would have direct access to the outer hull from a bay that would not have an airlock setup. The door just opens and they go to work.

 

[Anthony]

Originally posted by Baron Saarthuran von Gushiddan:
The one problem remains of material replacement. If the microbots behaved as leafcutter ants in organization, they could potentially repair larger hull breaches. I would think that using just the linked microbots would require a ton of them. They would be more effective if they had a way to bring repair materials to the damage site.

The most likely way to do it would be microbots that behave like platelets -- the microbots are simply expended to form the seal.

 

[flykiller]

Microbots still have substantial issues with power sources and synchronization

would an induction power source work?

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by flykiller:
would an induction power source work?

Fly,

SciAm published a single-topic issue devoted to nanotechnology sometime in the last 24 months. They covered the problems Anthony alluded too; both thermodynamics and 'fat fingers', in a clear, accessible manner.

Putting it bluntly, Drexlerian nano can't work and Drexler himself continually avoids addressing the concerns others bring up. In the issue I referred to, SciAm published two 'editorials' about nanotechnology, one by Drexler and one from another scientist. You can't describe one eidtorial as 'pro' and the other as 'con'. It was more like one was 'fantasy' and the other 'reality'.

The reality editorial presented a synopsis of current and near future nano along with an basic explanation of why Drexlerian nano can't work.

Drexler's editorial, the 'fantasy' one, blathered on for a bit about pie in the sky and dealt the fundamental concerns raised by other scientists by essentially saying "Buy my book, I solve all the problems there."

We'll use nanotechnology in the future. We're using nanotechnology now. However, we won't be using Drexlerian nanotechnology because it violates fundamental thermodynamics among other things.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Anthony]

Drexlerian nano is not, of course, less realistic than jump drives. Including it won't severely alter the realism of YTU. I was just noting that there's no compelling reason to include it, either.

If you do feel like including nanotech, I suggest linking it to Virus.

 

[BlackBat242]

Read The Legacy Trilogy by Ian Douglas.

Lots of bio-nano-tech, and also includes hull repair, etc in the 2nd & 3rd books.


Not much nano-tech, but it really helps understanding the background if you read the first set The Heritage Trilogy before reading the second.

 

[flykiller]

hey bill!

thanks for the reference, I might be able to find it this weekend.

Putting it bluntly, Drexlerian nano can't work

well, not that I know anything, but kicking around on the net and reading a few articles, don't bacteria already do what he's talking about? seems like a problem that already has a solution, it's just a matter of gaining access to the solution.

free-associating here, I suddenly have an image of cybernetics at the cellular level.

 

[Anthony]

If you reduce Drexlerian nano to the capabilities of bacteria, it's workable. The problem comes when you try to get exciting performance out of it.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hi !

One problem of nanotech in SF literature often is, that actual physics on a nano scale are absolutely ignored.
E.g. one aspect is, e.g. that movement in a way we experience it in the makro world is hardly possible, as a nano object is highly influenced by electrostatic forces on a molecular level and related surface effects. Even in a gasous environment the object is moved by the slightest airflow. In contrast the object might stick on adsorbing surface.
Transfered to the macro-world, it would be like getting along with a car in an environment, where the air is as dense as water and "winds" of several hundred m/s, powerful magnetic and electric fields everywhere and renegade high velocity objects bumping you all the time.
Active movement is such environment costs an enourmous amount of energy, which leads to those very fictional nanotech energy densities.

Life is tough if you are small

Regards,

TE

 

[Whipsnade]

Originally posted by flykiller:
well, not that I know anything, but kicking around on the net and reading a few articles, don't bacteria already do what he's talking about? seems like a problem that already has a solution, it's just a matter of gaining access to the solution.

Fly,

Congratulations! You've independently 'solved' the nanotechnology 'problem'! And I'm not being snarky either!

What you surmised is precisely what several articles in the SciAm issue discuss. There's a name for it I can't quite remember, something like macro-nanotechnology. It's still 'nano' but it's a step back 'up' the size scale from pie-in-the-sky Drexlerian nano.

IIRC, the 'realistic editorial' I mentioned in my previous post describes some of the techniques already in use.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Anthony]

There's "Wet Nanotech" as a term, though I don't know if that's what SciAm referred to.

 

[david.wendelken]

If nano-bot programmers do as bad a job as most other programmers (i.e., 99% of them), then civilization is doomed if this technology gets off the ground.

 

[Peter Schutze]

the problem with nano-tech is a definition

we already use "nanotech" everyday .... its called a printer cartridge

as people have said above magical hull/armour eating nanobots have real problems under current understandings of physics. they also have the utility issue ..... you should need specific nanobots for each different hull material type, if not several very similar ones to account for slight differences in alloys etc

TL-15 etc is probably rife with microrobots like the tadpole camera thats not much bigger than an pixel on your screen which is being trialled in some labs