Need an Initiative System

[Narl]

I have realized very quickly that the simultaneous combat in CT does not work for my GMing style. I like to narrate events, attacks, wounds, etc. as they happen, and resolving everything at once does allow me to do that. It just doesn't work for me.

So, I want an initiative system. I have a few ideas:

1. Use the surprise roll rule as written to see who goes first, and just alternate which side goes from there. No distinction of who goes in what order within each side. Fast, easy.

2. Roll a D6 each round, add best Tactics and Leadership in each group. Winning side goes first that round. Reroll each round. Fast. Adds some tension each round.

3. Use TTB drawing rule. Everyone rolls 2D6 plus Dex. Write out order. This means a big pause at the start of combat to sort out the order. Sensible and acceptable to modern gamers.

4. Use Snapshot rules for order. Dex plus End. With Snapshot you go from lowest total to highest, with higher totals able to pre-empt lower ones. Without a map, there is little advantage to going later, so I would probably just run down the initiative from highest to lowest. Static, which is a downside to me. On the plus side, I may use Snapshot for some battles so it would be consistent.

Any other ideas or possibilities? Which would you prefer as a player? I am open to any thoughts that will help me make a decision on this. Thanks!

 

[Supplement Four]

I've played around with different Initiative systems in CT. I keep going back to basics, though, except that I don't like doing wound damage at the end of the round (I like to do it instantaneous).

One of the best Initiative systems I used was taking the Morale rules from Book 4 Mercenary and using that.

Basically, you figured each character's morale using the Book 4 rules. Then, throw 2D for Morale or less. If your throw is higher than the morale number, then add 10 to the roll. Lower is better.

That's it.



Example.

Character's Morale is 6. Throw 2D for 6- when throwing for Initiaitve. Any throw of 6 or less results in the character's initiative. Any throw of 7 or more means that you add 10. If you throw an 8, then initiative is 18.



He's an old thread from 8 years ago that discusses the system.

Clicky, clicky.



And, here's the OP from the old thread:

Morale
Here's how it works: Initiative is a character's Morale Rating. The Morale Rating is that determined by the Book 4 (and Striker) methods: Civilians roll 1D + Tactics skill; Military personnel roll 1D +1 + Tactics skill + terms in military service.

Figure a character's Morale Rating when the character is generated, and record this on the character's sheet.

Slight tweak to the Morale Rating from Book 4 (and Striker): a character's Morale Rating runs 1-15, just like a characteristic (Morale cannot exceed 15). And, a character's Morale Rating can never be higher than the character's INT score.


Initiative
When Initiative is thrown during a combat round, 2D is tossed for Morale or less.

If the roll is equal to or less than the character's Morale Rating, then the result of the throw is the character's initiative total.

If the roll is greater than the character's Morale Rating, then add 10 to the throw to find the character's initiative total.

Characters with lower initiative numbers act earliest in the round (lower is better).



DMs

+1 If one stat reduced due to wounds
+2 If two stats reduced due to wounds
+4 If three stats reduced due to wounds

========================

Examples

Sydi, Morale 9, rolls 2D for 9-. The result on the dice roll is 8. Sydi's initiative is 8.


Garm, Morale 6, rolls 2D for 6-. The result on the dice roll is 10. Garm's initiative is 20.


Trallion, Morale 4, is wounded. Both STR and DEX have been reduced due to wounds. Trallion will act slower as he is wounded. 2D +2 are thrown for 4-. Trallion rolls snake eyes, so his initiative is 4.

 

[mike wightman]

There already is an initiative system in CT.

It is hidden in the combat sections as drawing.

Roll 2d and add Dex, winner gets first shot/blow.

I only use this at close and short range.

 

[tim_manley]

I have realized very quickly that the simultaneous combat in CT does not work for my GMing style. I like to narrate events, attacks, wounds, etc. as they happen, and resolving everything at once does allow me to do that. It just doesn't work for me.

I have the same narrative style of combat and take damage as the wound occurs. But they don't "apply" until the round is done. That way you can kill each other if you roll.

I did this with the teenagers I just ran last night and it worked quite well, and they liked it a lot.

 

[Supplement Four]

Speaking of game styles, I new a dude back in the day who would run combat in three phases, not unlike starship combat.



First Movement Phase

Characters can move up to one Range Band (or up to 25m, if on a grid). If you want to move in the Second Movement Phase, then you must move the entire length in this one (must move one Range Band/25m).

Combat Phase

Everybody gets to shoot at each other. Brawling takes place during this phase. Grenades are thrown. Etc. Damage is instantaneous (except with the grenades--forgot what he did with those).

Second Movement Phase

Any character who moved a full Range Band in the First Movement Phase can now move up to a second full Range Band (up to a total of 50m for the round).

 

[manley_t]

There already is an initiative system in CT.

It is hidden in the combat sections as drawing.

Roll 2d and add Dex, winner gets first shot/blow.

I only use this at close and short range.

If I were going to use one I'd do that. Simple & quick

 

[Marchand]

He's an old thread from 8 years ago that discusses the system.

Clicky, clicky.

Liking your suggestion as usual, S4. But a minor point - I don't see any reason for capping Morale at INT. The two seem independent - if anything, maybe likely to be inversely correlated.

 

[Golan2072]

There already is an initiative system in CT.

It is hidden in the combat sections as drawing.

Roll 2d and add Dex, winner gets first shot/blow.

I only use this at close and short range.

Which page is that on?

I was thinking of each character rolling 1d6 plus the character's Tactics in the beginning of combat (once per encounter) for initiative; higher goes first. The group's highest Leader skill gets added as well; if the character with the highest Leader skill has Tactics as well, everyone can use his or her Tactics skill. So having a good leader well-versed in tactics is very helpful. Predatory animals might get a bonus in lieu of Tactics.

 

[mike wightman]

Page 42 LBB1 '81 edition - it's in the Special Considerations section that follows the weapon and armour descriptions.

The way i look at is that tactics is used in the run up to combat to achieve surprise. if you succeed at this you are going to get a considerable advantage. I use the drawing (or initiative rule) if characters manage to get to short range or closer without surprise.

Act in order, apply results at the end, unless someone gets a critical hit (house rule).

 

[Supplement Four]

On page 43 of TTB.

 

[Golan2072]

Thanks!

 

[Supplement Four]

I love the "initiative" system with 1st ed. D6 Star Wars, and I think it would work well with Classic Traveller.

Basically, you just role play the scenario normally until the action breaks out. Where you would normally change from standard roleplay to combat, you just have the characters make their action rolls, whether that be for an attack or some other maneuver. The higher roll acts first, and so on.

I can better illustrate this in an example.

You've got two PCs. You are roleplaying as the characters are investigating an abandoned Corsair base. The two enter a cave hangar, and the Ref tells them that the abandoned base is not so abandoned as two Vargr are staring at them as they enter.

"I raise my pistol and shoot the one on the right!" Says one player.

"Yeah! And, I'll shoot the one on the left!" Says he other.

"As you raise your arms," the Ref narrates, "and feel the powerful jerk of your pistols, you see the one on the right start to run. He looks like he's ducking for cover.

"The other one, though," the Ref continues, "has a large pistol in his clawed hand, and he shoots back!"





Now, we roll dice. The best thing to do, I've learned, is to take each set of action and resolve it before moving on. In the example here, we've got two sets of action. We've got the right hand PC firing at the Vargr on the right, where the Vargr is ducking for cover.

We'll resolve that first.

The other piece of action in the round is the left hand PC firing at the left Vargr, with that Vargr firing back at the same PC.

We'll handle that one second.





Right side resolution: The PCs rolls his attack using normal CT rules. We need a throw to govern the Vargr's movement. I suggest a standard 2D6 throw, with DM +1 if DEX 10+. This gives the edge to the PC with the gun but still leaves room for the Vargr to win.

The PC, with all modifiers, rolls a total 9. The Vargr, though, rolls a total of 11. Since the Vargr won, this means that the Vargr got behind cover, and we have to add in the cover bonus to the PC's shot. 9 - 4 = 5. A total of 5 means the PCs missed.

If the PC had won, the the 9 would have hit the Vargr. Damage would be done. And, only if able would the Vargr complete his movement.





Left side resolution: Both the PC and the Vargr are shooting at each other. Both roll attacks.

The Vargr rolls a total 10. The PC rolls a total of 8. Under CT rules, both hit. But, under this initiative system, the Vargr hit first. So, we roll damage on the PC. Regardless of what happens to the PC, the 8 still hits (they hit each other), and damage is done to the Vargr.

It's a good simultaneous combat rule.





This may sound more complicated than it is. What you basically do is have everybody declare their actions, then roll the actions, resolving the highest roll first, then the second highest, and so on.

It's a pretty neat system.

 

[Supplement Four]

Another idea is to just go with implied initiative. That is, initiative indicated by the roleplaying. Whomever speaks first, acts first.

If a player says, "I pull my gun and start shooting," then that's exactly what he does, right there. If nobody else has said anything about combat, then that player has initiative.

This works for 99% of the situations, letting the story and player/Ref input dictate the flow of the action (and initiative). For that 1% of the time when you actually have a draw situation, you can use the Draw rules from CT.

 

[rancke]

Another idea is to just go with implied initiative. That is, initiative indicated by the roleplaying. Whomever speaks first, acts first.

If a player says, "I pull my gun and start shooting," then that's exactly what he does, right there. If nobody else has said anything about combat, then that player has initiative.

The skills and abilities of a character is not necessarily those of its player. If I have a character with combat reflexes or high dexterity or whatever would give it an advantage, I don't want some other character going first because its player is quicker than me.

There's also the "the character would know it but the player doesn't" situation; a player says "I pull my gun and start shooting" without considering the odds, but his 30 year combat veteran character would never perform such a newbie move (please adjust the example to fit your preconceptions). In such a case I think the referee should allow him to reconsider.


Hans

Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

The skills and abilities of a character is not necessarily those of its player. If I have a character with combat reflexes or high dexterity or whatever would give it an advantage, I don't want some other character going first because its player is quicker than me.

Then, obviously, that's not the initiative mechanic to use in your game. I was just throwing out some ideas for the OP.

I've never much liked the idea of a "caller", either, but I've heard of a player being selected from among the group to call the players' actions. The players tell the caller, and the caller tells the Ref. The caller usually sorts out initiative by saying, "Abees does this, and Bernarn does this, and Cather does this...".

Another initiative system that I've never cared for is for the Ref to take the players and seat them around the table in initiative order, usually using some character stat, like DEX, to determine initiative. That way, the Ref only needs to insert the bad guys into the initiative process. The Ref just goes around the table, always starting on his left and moving clock-wise, moving through initiative.

This works best when initiative usually determines a side that goes first too--like all of the PCs on a side, and all of the bad guys on another side. Plenty of games mention this "side" business, but I've always preferred individual initiative.

There's also the "the character would know it but the player doesn't" situation; a player says "I pull my gun and start shooting" without considering the odds, but his 30 year combat veteran character would never perform such a newbie move (please adjust the example to fit your preconceptions). In such a case I think the referee should allow him to reconsider.

That would fall into the area of the Ref. He should correct things like that when he spots them when using story-driven initiative.

 

[Golan2072]

Page 42 LBB1 '81 edition - it's in the Special Considerations section that follows the weapon and armour descriptions.

The way i look at is that tactics is used in the run up to combat to achieve surprise. if you succeed at this you are going to get a considerable advantage. I use the drawing (or initiative rule) if characters manage to get to short range or closer without surprise.

Act in order, apply results at the end, unless someone gets a critical hit (house rule).

Would it be Fair Use to put a screen-capture of this paragraph (only one paragraph) on my blog under the heading "the little-known initiative system of Classic Traveller)? I don't want to infringe on Marc's rights...