Noble Career Q

[Lord Kilgore]

How do you handle a character with Soc above A who enters the noble career?

If a player rolls a 12 for Soc and chooses the noble career, what happens when he/she get's position and/or promoted? Does the rolled C become a D when the position roll is made? Do position and promotion rolls sufficient to surpass the initial Soc score need to be made before the character's Soc increases? Something else?

I've looked and looked and can't find an answer.

 

[Supplement Four]

I always found it tricky, especially if your plan is to run a normal crew & tramp freighter type of game.

One idea is to make a title a title only--nothing more. No lands. No subjects.

My most successful run of The Traveller Adventure featured a Baron. I hadn't planned on using a noble, but the player rolled up a friggin' Baron.

So, pre-game, I put my thinking cap on and made up this whole story that would fit with the normal crew & tramp freighter vide TTA had going for it.

Baron Preygor was the head of a noble family on a world a subsector away. His world was a bit different in that there were three noble families competing on the world, but House Preygor was dominate and held the rights to the world's starport.

Just before our game started, the other two lesser Houses became allies and made House Preygor victim of a coup. In Dune-House-Atreides style, House Preygor was decimated. Assassins from the other two Houses searched the world, then the subsector for the Baron, but he escaped.

With all the wealth the Baron could take with him, he ran from the two remaining Houses of his world, ending up on Aramis, where The Traveller Adventure begins.

Preygor took every credit he had and purchased the March Harrier--the ship featured in TTA--not only as a means to keep him moving, one step ahead of the assassins, but also as a method to build wealth. His personal goal became to grow a fortune, purchase mercenaries, gain allies, and return to his homeworld to take back his family's lands.



It turned into a fantastic take on TTA. This Noble-On-The-Run theme added another crisis to all the character face in that mega-adventure.

And, the Baron was able to use his noble status in ways that a "normal" crew of the March Harrier wouldn't. I remember this fantasic encounter that Baron Preygor had with the Marquis of Aramis. We established that the Baron was a bannerman of one of the Marquis' rivals. The Baron pledged his House and allegiance, now, to the Marquis of Aramis. And, the Marquis promised to help the Baron, secretly of course (he doesn't want to turn others against him), if the Baron ever grows enough to retake his homeworld.

It added a neat, political aspect to the game.

The other players all played regular citizens of the Empire, but one of the marines that Preygor higher as a gunner about the Harrier had also obtained a Knighthood.

But, there was tension between those two characters. The Knight looked at the Baron as a fallen crime lord from a far off realm--not as a just man who had been wronged.

It made for some very, very interesting game sessions.

 

[Supplement Four]

I've looked and looked and can't find an answer.

Also, T4 turned out an anthology of adventures featuring nobles called Missions of State. You may want to get that and convert it to CT. T4 conversion to CT is not that hard at all.

For purely background information, you may want to look at a book published for GURPS Traveller, called Nobles. GT is a difficult conversion to CT, but the book is full of rule-neutral sourcebook information on Nobles.

 

[Supplement Four]

If a player rolls a 12 for Soc and chooses the noble career, what happens when he/she get's position and/or promoted? Does the rolled C become a D when the position roll is made? Do position and promotion rolls sufficient to surpass the initial Soc score need to be made before the character's Soc increases? Something else?

I've looked and looked and can't find an answer.

Page 8 of Supplement 4 says that Rank corresponds to noble rank (taken from Social Standing) once position is achieved.

Thus, the character must first throw the Position number, and if successful, can try for Promotion.

Obtaining Position puts the character at Rank 1. If you look on page 8 of Supplement 4, Rank 1 corresponds to SOC B, Knight.

If the player rolled a 12 for SOC when generating him, the character is already a Baron and is, thus, Rank 2, already. The character does not get a promotion to Rank 3 (SOC-D Baron) for obtaining Position.

If Promotion is successful, then the character is advanced one Rank.





For example...

Player rolls 12 for SOC and has a noble character (a Baron).

The character can automatically enter service as a Noble.

Every term, the character can try for Position. He only has to make Position once. On subsequent terms, he does not roll for Position again once he's achieved it the first time.

After achieving Position, the character may try for Promotion (and he can attempt Promotion on the same term that he achieved Position).

If he is successful, his SOC is increased by 1.

Thus, the SOC-C Baron can become a SOC-D Marquis during the first time if both Position and Promotion are made that term.





Position only needs to be made once, but making Position does not increase the Noble's SOC.

After Position is made, then a successful Promotion roll will increase SOC by +1.

 

[GypsyComet]

"Noble" does not mean "landed", and an entire class of Imperial Noble have just the title and nothing else, particularly.

 

[Supplement Four]

"Noble" does not mean "landed", and an entire class of Imperial Noble have just the title and nothing else, particularly.

Where are you getting that in CT?

 

[GypsyComet]

Library Data. The Birthday List is that old, IIRC.

 

[leo knight]

Good ideas as usual, S4. I tend to look outside SF and Traveller. Shakespeare usually provides all sorts of ideas for nobles slumming or on the lam. This site has synopses of all the plays:

http://www.alchemistmatt.com/shakespeare/shakespeare.html

Enjoy!

 

[Lord Kilgore]

For example...

Player rolls 12 for SOC and has a noble character (a Baron).

The character can automatically enter service as a Noble.

Every term, the character can try for Position. He only has to make Position once. On subsequent terms, he does not roll for Position again once he's achieved it the first time.

After achieving Position, the character may try for Promotion (and he can attempt Promotion on the same term that he achieved Position).

If he is successful, his SOC is increased by 1.

Thus, the SOC-C Baron can become a SOC-D Marquis during the first time if both Position and Promotion are made that term.

Position only needs to be made once, but making Position does not increase the Noble's SOC.

After Position is made, then a successful Promotion roll will increase SOC by +1.

This is the way we did it when it came up recently. Is there an official rule that spells this out?

 

[rancke]

Library Data. The Birthday List is that old, IIRC.

The essay about Imperial nobles in LDNZ talks about it. Fiefs are not mentioned for knights and baronets at all. Barons may have fiefs, which implies that they may not have fiefs. Fiefs are not mentioned for marquesses, counts, and dukes, although I'm fairly sure they have been mentioned somewhere else. I can't remember where, unfortunately. Archdukes get an entire world for a fief.

Baronial fiefs aren't particularily large, "generally not more than 100 square kilometers".


Hans

 

[Supplement Four]

Is there an official rule that spells this out?

I think Supplement 4 is pretty clear. Where are you having trouble with them?

 

[Supplement Four]

@Lord Kilgore

Note that the Noble career is open to non-Nobles, if SOC-A*.

Upon obtaining Position, SOC-A increases to SOC-B (Rank 1), and the character becomes a noble (knighted).

Then, every Promotion moves the noble up a SOC class, increasing the character's noble rank.



If a noble follow the Noble career (a character with beginning SOC-B or SOC-C), he must still obtain Position, but he is not reduced to a Knight if he is already a Baron.

SOC increases with each Promotion after the Position roll is made.





*Note that a non-noble can complete the Noble career and never become an actual noble. This wouls happen if the character never successfully rolls for Position. Look at the Noble characters on page 36-37 of Supplment 4. Character #20 is not a noble but did have 2 terms in the noble career.

 

[pendragonman]

I think Supplement 4 is pretty clear. Where are you having trouble with them?

Supplement Four means that Supplement Four (the book) is pretty clear.

Lol

 

[Supplement Four]

Supplement Four means that Supplement Four (the book) is pretty clear.

Lol

It's my name-sake. I'm a "Citizen of the Imperium". :rofl:

 

[whulorigan]

The essay about Imperial nobles in LDNZ talks about it. Fiefs are not mentioned for knights and baronets at all. Barons may have fiefs, which implies that they may not have fiefs. Fiefs are not mentioned for marquesses, counts, and dukes, although I'm fairly sure they have been mentioned somewhere else. I can't remember where, unfortunately. Archdukes get an entire world for a fief.

Baronial fiefs aren't particularily large, "generally not more than 100 square kilometers".

CT:LDNZ, p.36 specifically mentions the 100km² for Baronial Fiefs, and the entire world for Archducal Fiefs, but nothing else.

Mega Traveller expanded on the Nobility (and the size of their fiefs, if they are awarded one) in Imperial Encyclopedia p.12-15. Fiefs there increase by an order of magnitude for each successive Noble Rank:

Knight: Generally not more than 10 km²
Baronet: Generally does not receive a fief
Baron: Generally not more than 100 km²
Marquis: Generally not more than 1000 km²
Count: Generally not more than 10,000 km²
Duke: Generally not more than 100,000 km²
Archduke: 1 World

Also, from CT:LDNZ, p.36-37:

Fiefs: Patents of nobility, especially for service, may include fiefs of land. Fiefs are granted in a Letter of Enfeoffment separate from the patent of nobility. Fiefs are granted to the individual at the discretion of the Emperor and remain the Emperor's possessions. However, the fief conveys the right to use the land, to rent or lease it out and collect income from it. The fief is a convenient method for the Emperor to reward certain nobles. The size of the fief depends upon how great an income the Emperor wishes to award a noble, and the location of the fief itself. A knight with a fief consisting of several hundred square kilometers of sparsely settled wilderness and one with a single hectare of the business district of a city can be considered to hold equal fiefs. Hereditary nobles have often had the fief in their family for generations, and have built it up in value and income potential. Some sites at the capital generate considerable income each year. Other fiefs have been administered with great care to ensure that the territory be not only valuable, but also tastefully used. Still others have been exploited ruthlessly in mining or industrial pursuits. Completely separate from fiefs, a noble may own land obtained from other sources (inheritance, puchase, and so forth). These lands remain the property of their owner even if his title is revoked, and can be disposed of separately from fiefs.

 

[Lord Kilgore]

I think Supplement 4 is pretty clear. Where are you having trouble with them?

I'm having trouble finding the clear statement that spells it out. I must be missing it and am looking for a pointer.

I agree with your explanation. It makes sense and is what we did, as well. I'm looking for the official rule that explains it.

As far as I can see, the only place anything is really spelled out is in the notes below the Prior Service Table on Sup 4 pg 8, where it says

Rank corresponds to noble rank (taken from Social Standing) once position is achieved.

If I was to just take that as written, it says that a character with Soc C who gets position becomes Soc B (rank 1). I think everyone would agree that that isn't right, so I was wondering if there was an official rule that actually spells it out clearly.

 

[Supplement Four]

If I was to just take that as written, it says that a character with Soc C who gets position becomes Soc B (rank 1). I think everyone would agree that that isn't right, so I was wondering if there was an official rule that actually spells it out clearly.

I don't think a rule is needed. You are looking for a line that says, "If a character is SOC-C at the time of enlistment, then he is not reduced to SOC-B upon obtaining Position."

It's common sense. If a character is already a Baron, then why would he lose that title and become a Knight just because of the career path he chose?






If this were true, no character above SOC-B interested in maintaining his noble status would ever choose the Noble career. Why would a Baron risk his Barony, giving himself a chance to never regain it? If this were true, we'd have a career, focussing on Nobles where the highest nobles will never use the career.

There is no enlistment throw for the Noble career. I don't think the career is just for SOC-A and SOC-B characters. It's for any noble, which includes SOC-C.

 

[Lord Kilgore]

Yes. I was exactly looking for a rule that I was missing. There doesn't appear to be one.

Thanks.

 

[rancke]

It's common sense. If a character is already a Baron, then why would he lose that title and become a Knight just because of the career path he chose?

Apparently he's not already a baron but "only" the heir to a baron since he doesn't have a position yet.

Incidentally, I have a great deal of difficulty mapping the rules for the Nobles career to a plausible system of nobility. Apparently all children of nobles and of the highest-ranking non-nobles (SL10) may elect to join the Nobles career. When they do, an Imperial knighthood (or better) is almost sure (5 and better on 2D) within the next four to eight years, particularily if they have a decent education. Children of barons even get a barony of their very own. Or do they get their parent's barony? How come Imperial nobles are so prone to die young? And do Imperial nobles only have one child each?



Hans