Noble/military Q&A
- Thread starter plop101
- Start date
Well, extrapolating from "reality", those armed forces that have the rank of Marshall seem to use it as the United States uses "General of the Army", the five-star rank. That, if I'm not in error, is essentially O11, which would make Vice Marshall either O10, General, or maybe "O10.5", between O10 General and O11 Marshall. The "O10.5" idea actually comes from the NYPD organization, where the Commissioner (technically a civilian) carries a police shield bearing five stars on it, with the Chief of Department (highest uniformed rank) bearing four stars - but between the Chief and the Commissioner is a layer of "Deputy Commissioners" for various specializations. They outrank all of the uniformed chiefs, including the Chief of Department, but the Chief of Department nominally reports directly to the Commissioner (although with reference to a matter concerning terrorism, he'd normally go to the DC Terrorism, instead of directly to the PC).
I don't believe it was ever explicitly clarified, but the usage is consistent with definition (b) above. However, it should be noted that, IIRC, the British use "Lord" not only as a general title for the seated peers in Parliament, but also as a title for an Earl (f. Countess) rather than a Baron - An English Baron is "Baron So-and-So"; an English Earl is "Lord So-and-So". I would read this as a definite IMTU situation, and simply assume that the individuals indicated have an unspecified peerage - which would actually make it consistent with definition (c) above, rather than (b).
Per the Warrant of Restoration, the Moot's functions are, in summary,
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- Advise the Emperor concerning Imperial policy</font>
- Ratify the Succession (or choose a successor if the designated heir is incapable of exercising the Imperial Power)</font>
- Dissolve the Imperium, in extremis</font>
As citizens of democracies I think we are too ready to see the moot as a kind of House of Representatives.
I think that the original conception (given Lauren Wiseman's historical interests) was that of the Roman Senate after the fall of the Roman Republic - a source of information to the Emperor and place where senators could act in a limited advisory role while creating the illusion of the fulfillment of public duty.
The European monarchies in the medieval period had councils of nobles (such as the English Privy Council) who would advise them on matters of state and who would implement the king's will in the localities.
Parliaments, however, were often troublesome affairs needed for raising taxation but creating all manner of demands for reform.
I see the Moot in Traveller is rather like an amalgam of the above. Somewhat of a social event for the nobility with little power except in time of crisis.
I think that the original conception (given Lauren Wiseman's historical interests) was that of the Roman Senate after the fall of the Roman Republic - a source of information to the Emperor and place where senators could act in a limited advisory role while creating the illusion of the fulfillment of public duty.
The European monarchies in the medieval period had councils of nobles (such as the English Privy Council) who would advise them on matters of state and who would implement the king's will in the localities.
Parliaments, however, were often troublesome affairs needed for raising taxation but creating all manner of demands for reform.
I see the Moot in Traveller is rather like an amalgam of the above. Somewhat of a social event for the nobility with little power except in time of crisis.
My impression is that the Moot is based on the Anglo-Saxon Moot, or actually the Grand Moot (there are a few other references to Anglo-Saxon England in Canon as well). This was an assembly of nobles that was basically the royal court and was located whereever the king chose to go. The Moot discussed issues and provided council to the king. There was no official quarum, but an individual had to be of sufficant noble rank to participate. It did have the offical function of selecting a successor by ajudicating competing cliams in the event of the kings death, and at that period this was no clear cut matter, as England has several competing claimants at each succession.
The Moot system was much deeper than just the Grand Moot that met at the top level. Local moots were held down to the lowest levels and served as both local council and court. Local Thanes would meet about once a month to discuss issues and recieve news. At each meeting one or more would be designated to attend the next higher moot to take unresolved issues higher and learn what was happening in other areas. This system provided a basic system of justice and transmitted information up, down, and across the fudal structure.
What is interesting about the OTU Moot is it implies the existance of these lower moots (by using the term moot instead of senate), but never mentions them specifically. I have included them IMTU to flesh out how the Imperium works and the Wounded Colossus alternate Rebellion timeline proposes them as a potential reform to the Noble system.
Rob
(note: this is based on some reading on Anglo-Saxon England and the Norman Conquest several years ago, and the books are not imidiatly available, so appologies for any errors I may make in explaining. There is a great explanation of this system in the book 1066: The Year of the Conquest.)
The Moot system was much deeper than just the Grand Moot that met at the top level. Local moots were held down to the lowest levels and served as both local council and court. Local Thanes would meet about once a month to discuss issues and recieve news. At each meeting one or more would be designated to attend the next higher moot to take unresolved issues higher and learn what was happening in other areas. This system provided a basic system of justice and transmitted information up, down, and across the fudal structure.
What is interesting about the OTU Moot is it implies the existance of these lower moots (by using the term moot instead of senate), but never mentions them specifically. I have included them IMTU to flesh out how the Imperium works and the Wounded Colossus alternate Rebellion timeline proposes them as a potential reform to the Noble system.
Rob
(note: this is based on some reading on Anglo-Saxon England and the Norman Conquest several years ago, and the books are not imidiatly available, so appologies for any errors I may make in explaining. There is a great explanation of this system in the book 1066: The Year of the Conquest.)
Ranger a very good point - In Anglo Saxon London the Ward Moot was the basic instrument of local government and elected the Alderman to the City Government.
In my view the territorial barons are the eyes and ears for the marquis who report to the 'county' moot (i.e. the cluster of systems ruled by an Imperial count). In turn the counts report to the subsector dukes, etc.
This is quite neat as it means that the Imperial nobility is more of an information gathering body rather than being involved in direct rule. Worlds can have their own governments which co-exist alongside the Imperial nobility. The World government runs the world/state in the way it chooses or is elected to do but the noble watches that state/world/cluster on behalf of the Emperor.
In this way democracy/autocracy, etc can stand alongside the Imperial feudal system. The nobles are a kind of UN style monitor or a British colonial viceroy/governor rather than direct rulers of states.
My next question is - if the Imperial system is so hands on who actually sits in the moot - nobles or delegates?
In my view the territorial barons are the eyes and ears for the marquis who report to the 'county' moot (i.e. the cluster of systems ruled by an Imperial count). In turn the counts report to the subsector dukes, etc.
This is quite neat as it means that the Imperial nobility is more of an information gathering body rather than being involved in direct rule. Worlds can have their own governments which co-exist alongside the Imperial nobility. The World government runs the world/state in the way it chooses or is elected to do but the noble watches that state/world/cluster on behalf of the Emperor.
In this way democracy/autocracy, etc can stand alongside the Imperial feudal system. The nobles are a kind of UN style monitor or a British colonial viceroy/governor rather than direct rulers of states.
My next question is - if the Imperial system is so hands on who actually sits in the moot - nobles or delegates?
The Imperial Moot? Good question, it's over a year out of contact with the frontier and the nobles are the head of their respective civil services, so probably can't be spared. I'd guess noble families sent a younger son/ daughter to the Imperial Moot as their representative, but I can find no justification for it.
On another matter, what about the armed forces of the Imperium? I always assumed a roughly fuedal system, where the Emperor controls directly the Imperial Navy and Marines, and his own house forces (The Imperial Guard), but the "Imperial Army" is actually a collection of the house forces of all the nobles accross the Imperium, and Dukes could command the planetary nobles to bring their forces to battle, within some kind of command framework.
Bryn
On another matter, what about the armed forces of the Imperium? I always assumed a roughly fuedal system, where the Emperor controls directly the Imperial Navy and Marines, and his own house forces (The Imperial Guard), but the "Imperial Army" is actually a collection of the house forces of all the nobles accross the Imperium, and Dukes could command the planetary nobles to bring their forces to battle, within some kind of command framework.
Bryn
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Cleon the Mad
SOC-12
I thought it stood for "Goon Squad". No wait, that's "IRIS". Nevermind.
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
I thought it stood for "Goon Squad". No wait, that's "IRIS". Nevermind.
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On another matter, what about the armed forces of the Imperium? I always assumed a roughly fuedal system, where the Emperor controls directly the Imperial Navy and Marines, and his own house forces (The Imperial Guard), but the "Imperial Army" is actually a collection of the house forces of all the nobles accross the Imperium, and Dukes could command the planetary nobles to bring their forces to battle, within some kind of command framework.
Bryn
___________
A possible answer to this poser is that there is an office of Lord General or Lord Admiral or Lord Vice Marshal = a military leader of Ducal or Archducal status who can requisition troops from local lords as and when needed. The Lord General merely acts as a sector duke with a more limited mandate from the Emperor (s/he probably sits on the Archdukes council as well).
On another matter, what about the armed forces of the Imperium? I always assumed a roughly fuedal system, where the Emperor controls directly the Imperial Navy and Marines, and his own house forces (The Imperial Guard), but the "Imperial Army" is actually a collection of the house forces of all the nobles accross the Imperium, and Dukes could command the planetary nobles to bring their forces to battle, within some kind of command framework.
Bryn
___________
A possible answer to this poser is that there is an office of Lord General or Lord Admiral or Lord Vice Marshal = a military leader of Ducal or Archducal status who can requisition troops from local lords as and when needed. The Lord General merely acts as a sector duke with a more limited mandate from the Emperor (s/he probably sits on the Archdukes council as well).
IMC I organised the Imperial military like this:
http://www.geocities.com/littlegreenmen.geo/Extolay.htm
Comments?
Bryn
Liam Devlin
SOC-14 5K
Excellent fusion of MTOE from CT & TNE Bryn, AIRBORNE!
heretically yours,
heretically yours,
Cheers.
Another question, what about the "elite" forces. ISTR from Book 4 that there are is a Commando School, and from other products a Jump school.
All Marines are (by definition) Jump trained in canon, and IMC (being a Brit) Commando trained, but that's not canon is it?
So Regiments can have Jump status (be AIRBORNE
) or Commando status (Rangers in the US), maybe both. What about strategic recce (SAS/ US Special Forces etc.)? IMO the best organisation to do this is the Scout Service. Could the Security Branch of the IISS be the SAS of the Imperium? They do provide the close protection escort for the Emperor after all. The anti-terrorist branch should probably be a local police unit.Bryn