Non-Lethal Mis-Jumps

[BlackBat242]

I guess I never viewed a "mis-jump" as automatically lethal. As GM, I roll the mis-jump, and then determine how far and what it the result. It is one way of getting the players to where I want them to be. However, as it is in my own Traveller universe, odd things can happen, which are not in the normal run of published Traveller material.

I have not put anyone into the Bermuda Triangle, but that is one possibility. The big question would not be where, but "when". The area of the Bermuda Triangle can work both ways.

Then there is the Universe mentioned by A. Bertram where things that disappear here go to, like the 5 Avengers of Flight 19, or the Australian liner SS Waratah. After a period of time there, that odd region or space-time ejects them to a more normal Traveller universe.

And since it is in my own Universe, the distances of a mis-jump can cover can be VERY LONG, as in multiple sectors from the original jump. Or from the Solomani Sphere to the Spinward Marches.

I have not, as yet, tossed someone from the Traveller Universe to my AD&D one, but that is another possibility.

A. Bertram Chandler also had ships popping between parallel dimensions, and an anti-matter universe occasionally interacting with ours.

we're talking about the game standard that 'Experimental {item X} shows up at one TL lower than it's minimum' ie; TL10 for JDrive1 means TL9 is when 'Dangerous Tests' happen?

That's the T5 new game thing, yes?

No... its been many refs' house-rule since the 1980s. At least, I had it then, and several others I knew then had it also.

It may ALSO be an official rule in T5... but it predated it by well over 20 years in actual use.

 

[GypsyComet]

It is codified in T5, but does pre-date it.

As for the mass precipitation issue, that is resolved in print (to my satisfaction, at least), BUT remains a handy way to keep mis-jumps from being lethal. You don't need a mass to precipitate out of jump, but a mass *will* force precipitation. The longer the mis-jump, the more likely the ship will pass through the halo (Oort, etc) of a star and come close enough to a random rock, iceball, or macguffin. Pop. This could still be deep space, mind you, but an iceball within sensor range is sufficient salvation.

I've done the "other dimension" thing as well, as a path to allow the players to play non-standard races, etc. They ended up in an extra-dimensional space that collected mis-jumps and similar events from other spaces. A bit of a sargasso, it had collected wrecked ships and their crews. The PCs figured out that they *might* pop back to normal space if they could keep their ship separate from the rest long enough for the drive to reset at the end of the week, but explored the conglomerated wreckage to pass the time. They found refugees from all over SF, and eventually took most of them with them. The list of refugees conveniently held new PCs from other spaces...

 

[Timerover51]

These are the two John Grimes books by A. Bertram Chandler that I was thinking of.

Into the Alternate Universe

Now practical, hard-headed Grimes is not the sort to believe in ghosts. But he’s willing to give psychics a chance when shapely Sonya Verrill, a commander in the Federation Survey Service, proposes a ghost-hunting expedition in the sector around Kinsolving’s Planet. Out where the fabric of space wears thin, ships have encountered Rim Ghosts—apparitions of craft and crewmates from alternate universes. When Grimes organizes a séance to make contact, their ship is yanked Into the Alternate Universe, and their only hope of getting home again may lie in a lost relic—a sleeper ship from the first age of space exploration.

The Commodore at Sea

Another visit to Kinsolving’s Planet, where the boundaries between reality and surreality are almost non-existent, finds The Commodore at Sea. For he is whisked to a continuum in which fictional characters exist, and he is surprised to meet Sherlock Holmes, Lady Chatterly, Tarzan and Jane, and…A. Bertram Chandler?

Chandler is the only author that I have ever read who manages to pull off having his character meet him in the real world.

 

[whitedalek]

There was also a Commodore Grimes meets Dominic Flandry crossover novel.

The Dark Dimensions

The Faraway Quest, Grimes, and Kinsolving's planet. Out on the edges of the rim where the crack of opening a cold tinnie might be enough to send you onto an alternate time track or into an alternate universe.

When that can happen, you can get crossover! Here we have Grimes and Verrill, the ex-Empress Irene from another series, and Poul Anderson's Dominic Flandry teaming up to take on some nogoodniks, even if this, plus a second Grimes instance constitutes a rather shaky alliance. Interesting to see Flandry from another major character's viewpoint for a fair amount of time to contrast to how he sees himself.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Non-Lethal Misjumps - My Take

While the Classic Traveller Universe is decidedly neutral and uncaring of the player-characters (i.e. random characteristic rolls, dying during character creation a real possibility, etc.), it boils down to how accepting the players in the group are of that fact. A misjump is more or less the same as a firefight in CT, which is typically ranging from vicious to lethal for everybody involved. If the PC's are going to play in the danger zone by jumping the ship too deep in the gravity well, they should pay the price. If the misjump is caused by factors beyond the PCs' control (i.e. the environment, hidden saboteurs, etc.), then it stands to reason that they should get the chance to survive. If you as the referee forced their hand to be in a situation where a misjump is a possibility, then you owe it to them (in fairness) to give them an out.

Cardinal rule of being a GM / referee: The demise of a player character should be a conscious decision on the part of the player - something he or she did or decided to do, not something that arbitrarily happens. The former puts the death on shoulders of the player, while anything else puts it on the referee instead.

For example: Misjump caused by damage incurred during the characters' attempt to hijack a starship? Yeah, ship destroyed with all hands lost. Misjump caused by damage that hijackers inflicted while attempting to take the characters' ship? You'd better give them their chance to salvage that situation. In either case, the result is on the players and makes for good role-playing.

 

[Timerover51]

While the Classic Traveller Universe is decidedly neutral and uncaring of the player-characters (i.e. random characteristic rolls, dying during character creation a real possibility, etc.), it boils down to how accepting the players in the group are of that fact. A misjump is more or less the same as a firefight in CT, which is typically ranging from vicious to lethal for everybody involved. If the PC's are going to play in the danger zone by jumping the ship too deep in the gravity well, they should pay the price. If the misjump is caused by factors beyond the PCs' control (i.e. the environment, hidden saboteurs, etc.), then it stands to reason that they should get the chance to survive. If you as the referee forced their hand to be in a situation where a misjump is a possibility, then you owe it to them (in fairness) to give them an out.

Cardinal rule of being a GM / referee: The demise of a player character should be a conscious decision on the part of the player - something he or she did or decided to do, not something that arbitrarily happens. The former puts the death on shoulders of the player, while anything else puts it on the referee instead.

For example: Misjump caused by damage incurred during the characters' attempt to hijack a starship? Yeah, ship destroyed with all hands lost. Misjump caused by damage that hijackers inflicted while attempting to take the characters' ship? You'd better give them their chance to salvage that situation. In either case, the result is on the players and makes for good role-playing.

As this is "My Traveller Universe", I tend to modify the die rolls as needed so that the players can get a character that they want and can play. I also figure that a player's Character only dies when he really does something stupid and essentially asked for it. I do make sure that things are not easy, and do try to collect a scalp or two. They do like to have a Medic or two in the party.

 

[Zutroi]

...Misjump caused by damage incurred during the characters' attempt to hijack a starship? Yeah, ship destroyed with all hands lost. Misjump caused by damage that hijackers inflicted while attempting to take the characters' ship? You'd better give them their chance to salvage that situation. In either case, the result is on the players and makes for good role-playing.

I'd caveat that a bit... if the crew experienced a "safe" misjump when they were hijacked, killing them out-of-hand when they do it might be a bit rough!

Personally, I've never killed a crew off when they misjumped - there are just SO MANY more fun things to do to with them!

 

[McPerth]

While the Classic Traveller Universe is decidedly neutral and uncaring of the player-characters (i.e. random characteristic rolls, dying during character creation a real possibility, etc.), it boils down to how accepting the players in the group are of that fact. A misjump is more or less the same as a firefight in CT, which is typically ranging from vicious to lethal for everybody involved. If the PC's are going to play in the danger zone by jumping the ship too deep in the gravity well, they should pay the price. If the misjump is caused by factors beyond the PCs' control (i.e. the environment, hidden saboteurs, etc.), then it stands to reason that they should get the chance to survive. If you as the referee forced their hand to be in a situation where a misjump is a possibility, then you owe it to them (in fairness) to give them an out.

Cardinal rule of being a GM / referee: The demise of a player character should be a conscious decision on the part of the player - something he or she did or decided to do, not something that arbitrarily happens. The former puts the death on shoulders of the player, while anything else puts it on the referee instead.

For example: Misjump caused by damage incurred during the characters' attempt to hijack a starship? Yeah, ship destroyed with all hands lost. Misjump caused by damage that hijackers inflicted while attempting to take the characters' ship? You'd better give them their chance to salvage that situation. In either case, the result is on the players and makes for good role-playing.

As a letal misjump, no matter how stupidly players acted, usually means the end of the campaign, I'd try to avoid them (at least on long played campaigns).

There are less letal ways to punish the characters:

- are they jumping from too closse a planet? the jump just does not engage, but overheats and is damaged for some time (with a nice bill to pay for repairing it, off course), or missjumps (with the same effect on the JD) at a planet with a starport unable to repair it (adding even more to the bill, as well as probably having to wait for a ship that may carry theirs to a repair yard, or having to perform makeshift repairs to get it there...

- are they hijacking a ship and the damage involves a missjump? they appear in a naval base and being detained for questioning for being on a restricted zone. It's up to them to avoid the Navy know they were hijakers...

As you see, both can be by themselves adventure hooks, and the campaign goes on with heavy problems for the players who acted stupidly (hoping they learned something in the meanwhile).

 

[aramis]

Most of the time, I turn "destroyed" misjumps into jumps to an alternate universe

 

[JimMarn]

There is also the interesting story where Grimes and his ship winds up in Ancient Greece. With a group of Space Marines aboard.

The Ancient Martians didn't seem to like him much either.

 

[Ref00000]

I just read the phrase "owes the Players a chance"

and I'm conflicted by my reactions.
"owes"?
the near infinite 'minor corrections' I make on my player's behalf in day to day play seem to mean 'I owe them nothing of the sort.'
which begs a question of Refs out there-
it's a big, indifferent Multiverse out there.
do you let the PCs die by their own hand as often as "they should"?
do you? I know I don't.
I find myself 'fixing' minor stuff that should stack up and kill my players by inches, all the fraking time.
how'saboutyouzeguys?
:CoW:

 

[aramis]

do you let the PCs die by their own hand as often as "they should"?
do you? I know I don't.
I find myself 'fixing' minor stuff that should stack up and kill my players by inches, all the fraking time.
how'saboutyouzeguys?
:CoW:

If they do something Stoopid, dead.
If they do something dangerously risky, and the dice bite... Dead.

Misjump? Dead or alternate universe.

 

[Amber Chancer]

You can make misjumps a LOT less lethal simply by ruling that they don't actually consume any fuel (or that they use so much as to leave barely enough to make one further jump). Depending on the system density in YTU, most jump-2 or higher ships misjumping into empty space are likely to end up somewhere that they can, at least, reach SOME sort of a system with one further jump.

Whether it is a system they want to jump into, mind, is a different matter altogether ...

 

[Ref00000]

Amber Chancer- I think you may be confusing something.

a 'failed jump' and a 'mis-jump' are very, very different.
if you 'fail to jump' and don't leave a star system, yeah, you don't have as big an issue, but remember- the majority of jump fuel is vented into space around the ship, and becomes the 'cloud of boiling hydrogen' between the ship's hull and the limits of the jump-field. which are a pocket universe in j-space.
if the jump fails to happen, you've still vented almost ALL the fuel, irrevocably into space. enemy actions or no, it's not going to hang around to be 'sucked back in' for another attempt, later. and you're still in a star system where you, at least theoretically, just got fuel.
so, yeah, if you're wanting to play it that 'this time you catch it early' and hold back most of the fuel load, sure that's your referee's prerogative.
A misjump is a whole other deal.
You succeed in entering J-Space, then 'something goes WRONG'. This is, in simple terms, a death sentence.
the burst of tachyons described as exiting your intended exit point from J-Space at your intended destination is what's left from the death of the pocket universe your ship and crew used to inhabit. and that's probably just what's left of the JDrive core.
What I was proposing is that the misjump be used as a 'ok, you're in a new Universe now' from the perspective of the players. to the view of the universe you used to exist in, you're still dead.
In this case, again the fuel is burned up.
when you drop out of jump 'early' you still lose functionally all the fuel 'in the bubble'. your maneuver reserve may or may not be enough for you to get to more fuel.

 

[Amber Chancer]

Alternatively, you could just dump all this canon crap about "jump bubbles" and the hand-waving explanations of how it works ... and substitute your own hand-waving explanations of how it works in which emerging from jump-space with some of your fuel load intact IS still an option.

I like my suggestion.

If "canon" doesn't allow it, then turn the offending canon into Victoria Crosses or something, and get on with running your Traveller universe how YOU want to do it.

The necessary rules are that starships can jump ... there is a formula for the fuel consumption of a regular jump ... and that in certain circumstances a misjump can occur which can result in a very different outcome from that which you were expecting when you went into jump space.

Beyond that ... explain it whatever way you want. Or don't bother explaining it at all. I never did, quite frankly, and I have never felt any great sense of loss in the fact that there are no "jump bubbles" or gloriously futile arguments about their nature, characteristics and consequences in my games.

 

[BlackBat242]

Remembering, of course, that "venting fuel to form a "jump bubble"" is a later-edition change to the rules, and that nothing in CT says any such thing (not even the article in JTAS #24).

CT assumes that the engines consume most of the fuel creating the jump field*, and that from then on the jump engines just burn a little maintaining the field that protects the ship - until the ship drops out of jump, which it will do by itself (see below).


* JTAS #24 says "When the jump drive is activated, a large store of fuel is fed through the ship power plant to create the energy necessary for the jump drive.", and "At the end of a very brief period (less than a few minutes), the jump drive capacitors have been charged to capacity. Under computer control, the energy is then fed into appropriate sections of the jump drive and jump begins. The drive's first function is to tear a hole in the fabric of space. The hole is precisely created and the ship naturally falls into the breach on a carefully directed vector. The drive then directs some of its energy to sewing up that hole again. The act of closing the hole severs the ship's ties with normal space and allows it to begin its jump. The duration of a jump is fixed at the instant that jump begins, and depends on the specific jump space entered, the energy input into the system, and on other factors.".

The "hole in space-time"" is created by the lanthanum coils in the engines (powered from the jump capacitors), and the ship is protected from jump space itself by the jump grid imbedded in the hull, which is powered by the consumption of the remaining jump fuel.

The only reference to any other use of the jump fuel is the sentence "the power plant does not work at full efficiency, and some of the fuel is lost in carrying off fusion by-products, and in cooling the system".

 

[Amber Chancer]

That explanation serves perfectly, Blackbat.

A misjump happens when, for whatever reason (impurities in the fuel leading to restricted fuel flow, or poor maintenance meaning that the fuel pumps stutter or work erratically being ht emost common) the jump drive is not fed with the amount of fuel it needs at the critical moment.

It still jumps ... but the jump is now uncontrollable.

But because it resulted from the jump drive not getting the fuel it needed, there is still enough fuel in the tanks at the end of it to allow one more jump

There you go. Non-lethal misjumps.

 

[BlackBat242]

Or the drive started the "rip" at a "weak point in the continuum", and the ship entered the "rip" before it had expended a significant amount of energy.

Lots of hand-wavy ways to describe a survivable mis-jump.


Besides, since I allow for "in-system jumps" that don't use a full J-1 worth of fuel (nor take the full week in jumpspace), then having a mis-jump not use up all the jump fuel is very possible in my games.

 

[FreeTrav]

"no Mary-Sues". simple rule, makes sense, right?

I sorta think I know what you're getting at with this, but ... really, now, isn't the RPG character sort of inherently the ultimate Mary-Sue? Of either, all, or no gender?mega:

 

[aramis]

I sorta think I know what you're getting at with this, but ... really, now, isn't the RPG character sort of inherently the ultimate Mary-Sue? Of either, all, or no gender?mega:

Mary Sue/Marty Stu characters are over-the-top unstoppable. Skills like "Do Everything 15"...

So, the typical PC, no, not even close.