Okay another question
- Thread starter khanjohn
- Start date
Since you asked in lone star, a general answer...
In CT: It isn't. Characters can learn a new skill or two every four character years and increase a stat over the span of 4 years, but it takes 8 to make that permanent. Alternatively, many GM's simply awarded a new skill level every 2-4 character years
In MT: upon first successful use in a stressful situation, to a maximum of 1 point to a given skill per 180 days; atts require training programs. Each skill and attribute has a separate tally of experience. Roll at end of month for gains.
In TNE: end of session XP awards.
In T4: end of session XP awards, but XP can only be used on skills that have been successfully used during the most recent session
In GT: End of session; they are just additional character points.
In MGT: weeks of training. GM's can award bonus ones. Must spent in-character time training. Points awarded to specific skills, each tracked separately, limit on how many.
In T20: end of session or end of adventure. Level up between adventures, or optionally during.
T5: The GM awards one skill level per year based upon life pursuits. Every 4th year, world knowledges drop.
Really! I either:
- Never knew that
- Knew it but forgot about it
- Knew it but subconsciously blocked it out as anathema
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Clarification: There are rolls to be made. Different improvement focus has different rules. INT cannot be improved, and EDU can not be improved it if is already higher than INT.
If you focus on weapon skills, there are throws to be made. If successful, the character can add +1 to one blade skill and one gun combat skill, and the character gets the benefit of those increases immediately. But, the increase will go back down after 4 character years if the throw isn't made. It does take 8 character years to make the two improvements permanent (which is 1 skill per four year term--just like chargen). A character can drop training on this skill and start training on a new skill--if successful on the throws, then old skills lose a point where new focus skills gain a point.
Stuff like that.
Where is this in the rules?
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Here 
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Here
I remember that...Aramis made it seem as if I missed something, and I was believing what he said. I was curious what i had missed.
And, I don't read your quote to say exactly what Wil is mentioning. He said the Ref give a character a skill or two per four years. I guess the anything-goes nature of CT and the last sentence of your quote would cover what he said, but I take it more as a House Rule rather than a CT rule.
Though, if a character goes through Marine boot camp on a world for three months, I could definitely see giving the character a skill and that being within the rules.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
That last paragraph i quoted basically means any ref can make up any system to grant players new skills, providing they have an in-game rationale for it.
I agree that Aramis made it sound like the method he suggests is common (although I personally have never come across it).
I agree that Aramis made it sound like the method he suggests is common (although I personally have never come across it).
Many CT Refs simply applied every 4th year in play as continuing in whatever career best fit the last 4 years. It was usually in lieu of, not in addition to, the rolls. CT lacks any "experience point" mechanism, tho'.
And CT Bk 4 also provides for training to increase skills at prodigious rates... if you can find the instructor needed.
Patron Zero
SOC-13
Acquiring XP in Traveller can be an iffy thing in general, more-so that tends to vary depending on how the GM-referee feels about the subject.
Myself, I 'awarded' a lot of 0-level skills as either things picked up from various non-career vocations or simply from life-living experiences.
That said, a 0-level rating does not qualify one to say operate a fusion plant or perform surgery but if so-related, a character could assist one so versed in such a task.
Another thing might be 'orientation' 0-level skills given while traveling on a starship, such could be vac-suit operation 0 or damage control 0. There are likely many others that would 'qualify' to such a list but more likely than not would be situation or circumstance 'driven'.
One doesn't need a certification in small engine repair to change a flat tire but should one lack such experience in that task it can be quite daunting.
Myself, I 'awarded' a lot of 0-level skills as either things picked up from various non-career vocations or simply from life-living experiences.
That said, a 0-level rating does not qualify one to say operate a fusion plant or perform surgery but if so-related, a character could assist one so versed in such a task.
Another thing might be 'orientation' 0-level skills given while traveling on a starship, such could be vac-suit operation 0 or damage control 0. There are likely many others that would 'qualify' to such a list but more likely than not would be situation or circumstance 'driven'.
One doesn't need a certification in small engine repair to change a flat tire but should one lack such experience in that task it can be quite daunting.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
I liked to find other rewards for characters in my CT game. An app (called 'em programs back then) that would play in a character's head's up providing targeting info and a +1 to hit, for example.
I liked to bring up stuff that could be damaged or used up (like drugs), so that the players get the fun of discovery and get the benefit for a while, but then they lose that (and probably find something else that is cool).
I'd alter the generic weapons and such. My player got to know manufacturers, for some were known for higher quality (and had the prices to prove it). I'd even let my players come up with stuff, if it wasn't too off the wall.
The key with CT is that you can't allow a lot of modifiers on dice throws unless you want the players to always be successful. So, I'm always on the lookout for things that are disposable, wear out, can be used up, can be damaged, and so on.
I liked to bring up stuff that could be damaged or used up (like drugs), so that the players get the fun of discovery and get the benefit for a while, but then they lose that (and probably find something else that is cool).
I'd alter the generic weapons and such. My player got to know manufacturers, for some were known for higher quality (and had the prices to prove it). I'd even let my players come up with stuff, if it wasn't too off the wall.
The key with CT is that you can't allow a lot of modifiers on dice throws unless you want the players to always be successful. So, I'm always on the lookout for things that are disposable, wear out, can be used up, can be damaged, and so on.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
I think that Traveller has always been a bit different XP wise from nearly every other game out there.
In XP based games your goal is to gain XP which allow the purchase of higher levels and/or characteristics and abilities. Any of these games with a pre-game experience option usually allow much faster character advancement during play.
Traveller has always been different.
You generate the experience of your character during the pre-game, and any advancement during the game will happen at the same rate as that gained during the pre-game.
Best system ever.
And to all those who want Luke Skywalker.
Start with an 18 year old with good characteristics - do stuff and pick up level 0 skills as you adventure (remember the ref can grant level 0 in skills you would be familiar with - so do stuff, try stuff, eventually you will be rewarded with level 0 familiarity)
In XP based games your goal is to gain XP which allow the purchase of higher levels and/or characteristics and abilities. Any of these games with a pre-game experience option usually allow much faster character advancement during play.
Traveller has always been different.
You generate the experience of your character during the pre-game, and any advancement during the game will happen at the same rate as that gained during the pre-game.
Best system ever.
And to all those who want Luke Skywalker.
Start with an 18 year old with good characteristics - do stuff and pick up level 0 skills as you adventure (remember the ref can grant level 0 in skills you would be familiar with - so do stuff, try stuff, eventually you will be rewarded with level 0 familiarity)
A skill in Classic Traveller is worth A LOT. Not only is a "mere" +1 very meaningful on a 2d6 curve, but also A SINGLE skill point is enough for your character to be a professional - e.g. a person who only has Mechanic-1 can hold a job as a full-time professional mechanic and earn a living! Whereas 1 skill point in D20 games does make you "trained" in a skill but is considered very little in the way of skills.
EACH skill point is a full-time profession! Each is equivalent to at least one full "class level" in a D20 game! This is much more important than a single skill point in other games.
This is why skills are giving so sparingly - each is HIGHLY valuable. You don't want fast skill progression because this will break the 2d6 curve and cause a "skill spam", i.e. too many skills per character and overly skilled characters.
Instead, if you want to round up your character, give him some skill-0's, which are free to give by the Referee as the situation calls.
Also, in character generation, except for in exceptional circumstances (e.g. a first term where you got both a Commission and a Promotion), you get one (1) skill point per 4-year term. After chargen, there is no reason for faster progression, unless the character takes specialized training.
EACH skill point is a full-time profession! Each is equivalent to at least one full "class level" in a D20 game! This is much more important than a single skill point in other games.
This is why skills are giving so sparingly - each is HIGHLY valuable. You don't want fast skill progression because this will break the 2d6 curve and cause a "skill spam", i.e. too many skills per character and overly skilled characters.
Instead, if you want to round up your character, give him some skill-0's, which are free to give by the Referee as the situation calls.
Also, in character generation, except for in exceptional circumstances (e.g. a first term where you got both a Commission and a Promotion), you get one (1) skill point per 4-year term. After chargen, there is no reason for faster progression, unless the character takes specialized training.
Another alternative (to learn skills -- it has nothing to do with xps) is to hire a mercenary with the instruction skill and a skill you want to learn (both at levels higher than the level you want to learn). That gives you a roll to acquire that skill level every six weeks (That's how long it takes the teacher to run a course, and he can teach several (I forget how many -- 6?) people at a time.
So in theory a character can learn eight skill levels per year and even have a four week holiday.
Hans
pendragonman
Absent Friends Margrave
Another alternative (to learn skills -- it has nothing to do with xps) is to hire a mercenary with the instruction skill and a skill you want to learn (both at levels higher than the level you want to learn). That gives you a roll to acquire that skill level every six weeks (That's how long it takes the teacher to run a course, and he can teach several (I forget how many -- 6?) people at a time.
So in theory a character can learn eight skill levels per year and even have a four week holiday.
Hans
Joe College.
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
As usual, Omer speaks for truth.
@khanjohn - Most rpgs list every skill that a character has possibly use. Like a d20 game, the character sheet lists every skill in the game and the modifier that the character has when using that skill.
Classic Traveller is not like that. This makes CT sometimes feel uncomfortable for those used to that other method. In CT, just the area where the character shines is listed--just the skills where that character has some improved expertise other than a "normal" level of know-how.
Let's look, for example, at the least skilled character among the six that are presented on page 30 of the Traveller Book. I'm going to go with the first character--the 4 term Navy character.
557AF7
Computer-1, Gunner-1, Vacc-1
Now, is all this character can do is operate a computer, use the ship's turret weapons, and handle himself in a vacc suit?
Heck no!
If he needs to get someone out of low berth, he does it. He just rolls 2D6 with no modifier. What about using a shotgun? No problem. He just doesn't get a bonus to hit. He rolls 2D6. Let's say he gets in a chase and he's piloting the Air/Raft. Again, he just rolls 2D6 with no bonus due to skill. If he needs to work on an electrical problem, he can do it, no penalty even though he doesn't have the Electronics skill (and might even get a bonus due to his high EDU). If the Jump Drive is damaged, then this character can attempt to fix it just by rolling 2D6. He needs no Engineering skill.
The skill descriptions will indicate when a penalty for not having a skill is needed. For example, bribery is something most people are not typically good at right off the bat, so there's a penalty. And, sometimes, the penalty is situational so that a penalty may be called for in a particular use of the skill but not in all uses of the skill (in which case a straight 2D6 roll would be appropriate).
In the end, it's up to the Ref whether a penalty for not having a skill is appropriate, but with CT, the default should be "no skill is no problem".
Thanks!
In other words, treat skills, especially weapon skills, as "weapon specialization", NOT as Base Attack Bonus. PCs have skill 0 in all weapons, and thus knows how to use any common weapon, but a weapon skill means he's specialized in a specific weapon.
In other fields, ALWAYS be generous will level-0 skills for basic tasks. You just don't have to list them until they come up.
For example, no one in the party has a vehicle skill. The adventures calls for piloting an air/raft. The Referee may decide that one, or all, of the characters has skill 0 in Air/Raft. This is a common skill on high-tech worlds. An average guy or gal with a driver's license has skill 0. If you have skill 1, you're already a professional driver.
You probably shouldn't be handing out Pilot 0, Engineering 0, Medic 0 and so on, as these are complex skills, plus this might make the J-o-T skill redundant. But for common skills such as Vacc Suit, Air/Raft, Ground Car and so on - SURE go ahead if this is character appropriate.
Wow, that's even less plausible than I remembered it. When did the blanket negative DM for not have the appropriate skill show up?
Hans
Supplement Four
SOC-14 5K
Just a different approach. CT assumes that most people can do many things. For example, just about anybody can pick up a gun, point it, and shoot (so most types of characters are given Skill-0 in gun combat with all typical weapons). Only the areas where the character is specialized needs to be recorded on the character's sheet.
That's why a character like this:
8A5B97
Computer-1, Wheeled Vehicle-1
Is still extremely playable. If CT were not this way, then chargen would turn out a lot of not very playable characters. With the guy above, you can add a blade and gun combat skill immediately through the Experience system (if the roll is made), then go on playing.
Many rolls for CT characters will be simple 2D throws.
And, CT provides a lot of default skills--all the gun combat skills, for example--characters generated through Book 1 are considered Skill-0, at a minimum, thus no penalty is used.
Plus, Refs are encouraged to give characters Skill-0 expertise if it seems logical that the character would have that skill.
For example, it a character does not have the Vacc Suit skill (which does have a penalty), but the character has spent the last 8 years serving on a tramp freighter, the Ref should give that character Vacc Suit-0 to avoid the penalty.
Comment sense should rule. See the entry in the Traveller Book, page 29, under Default Skills.
There is none. What you're probably thinking of is the penalty untrained weapon use. Except that all characters generated with the Basic classes from Book 1 are given default Skill-0 in every type of weapon shown in that book. That gun combat penalty can come into play with some of the careers provided in Supplement 4, Citizens of the Imperium, though.
Not just a different approach. An unrealistic approach. Most people aren't able to do practically anything. The penalty for not having a skill reflects that (in the extremely simplified skill system that is CT). I was surprised to learn that this wasn't part of the original rules.
But as I understand it, not with any real chance of hitting what they aim at.
But that's entirely different. Having weapon-0 or weapon-½ is not at all the same thing as not having any weapon skill at all. And the rule that every PC has skill-0 with all weapons is one of those highly unrealistic "PCs are special" rules that involves suspending disbelief for game purposes.
The whole point of having skill-0s/skill-½s is to distinguish between having enough skill to avoid penalties and not having enough skill to avoid penalties.
How do you create a character that is bad at anything?
Depends on your definition of 'playable'. As a playing piece in a game, sure. But as a character in a roleplaying game, not in my opinion.
Bingo!
Gamable but not plausible.
Aren't you mixing up two different versions of the rules? Why would you need level 0 skills if there's no penalty for not having a skill? I would have thought that the level 0 skills would have been introduced at the same time as the penalty for no skill was intyroduced.
Sure, that's plausible. And if the character has spent his life in space, shouldn't I give him a penalty to riding a horse?
My problem is that it doesn't seem to do so. But I guess I understand now why I had such problems with the old CT rules that I first houseruled them, then switched to an altogether different system.
Hans
