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On Corsairs, Pirates, Smugglers and Privateers.

So IYTU the IN doesn't send patrols to systems without naval bases? All those gazelles and no training at all in jump drive operation...

IMTU an IN has the duty to send routine patrols to every system in the sub-sector without a base. Usually this is a squadron of gazelles or patrol cruisers, but occasionally it may be a squadron of 1kt-5kt escort class vessels (they need the training too).
 
So IYTU the IN doesn't send patrols to systems without naval bases? All those gazelles and no training at all in jump drive operation...

IMTU an IN has the duty to send routine patrols to every system in the sub-sector without a base. Usually this is a squadron of gazelles or patrol cruisers, but occasionally it may be a squadron of 1kt-5kt escort class vessels (they need the training too).
IMTU it's often the duchy navy that gets stuck with patrolling backwater systems, but otherwise it's the same. (The IN escorts get to play the intruder during fleet exercises).


Hans
 
I use the sub-sector/duchy navy a bit like a coast guard I suppose.

I like the fleet exercise idea, gives me the inspiration for an adventure or two...
 
So IYTU the IN doesn't send patrols to systems without naval bases? All those gazelles and no training at all in jump drive operation...

IMTU an IN has the duty to send routine patrols to every system in the sub-sector without a base. Usually this is a squadron of gazelles or patrol cruisers, but occasionally it may be a squadron of 1kt-5kt escort class vessels (they need the training too).
I like my games to be tense and unstable, t gives me lots of opportunity to toss my players a cure ball, and gives the more gunfire happy members of the party something to do. It also forces the more thoughtful, and planning sorts problems to work out.

I tend to play my worlds as if it were a very long, very cold war, The Imperium is stretched thin trying to keep control of what it has already, and prevent such groups as the Vargr, Solomani, and Zhodanii from nipping it to death one system at a time.
The fleet has to have a standing force to repel any aggression, but they cant send out a large number of Naval forces without risking an incident.... Think Soviet and US ships nudging and bumping one another during the cold war.

with the situation very tense, and a real possibility of war flaring up over a "Border Dispute" both sides are very nervous when patrols increase, or there are a lot of ships moving about on their frontiers. So there are dead zones, and buffer zones that have little to no official coverage.

while strong Naval Patrols exist, they usually patrol established shipping lanes and conduct random sweeps of systems within one or two jumps of an established trade lane. However they will not go within one or two jumps of a world belonging to another power. so there are pockets where armed ships can refuel, rearm, sell off their loot, and then slip back out to raid sectors that don't have a strong force in the area on a regular basis.

The only Official garrisons in my games are on worlds that have a starport that can support the ships stationed there...repair facilities, fuel refineries, etc... other organisations or local governments fill in where the fleet can't station SDBs or cutters....larger richer sectors can afford to deploy more vessels, while in sectors that aren't as rich or influential patrols are thinner and less organized.


Longer range scout ships, operated by Maritime Assistance ( think an armed version of the coast guard) are employed to check out areas where criminal, or suspect activities have been reported, They look for unusual activity....Such as a larger than average number of armed "merchant" ships congregating in, or loitering in regions with little or no trade.....they also leave behind surveillance devices to track ships moving through an area, and monitor for attacks on merchant shipping when a patrol isn't in the area.

Patrols outside of the normal shipping lanes are usually small, light 'civilian' vessels which have a contract to provide assistance to any ship, in distress or under attack.

Worlds without a full naval presence are allowed to form their own squadrons of fighters and armed small craft as a reserve, or merchant squadron. they usually have a couple of squadrons of thrust 9-12 fighters that can respond to suspicious ships, conduct patrols of the system, etc... They also maintain armed merchant ships..refitted for light combat and customs work. Think a free trader stripped of it's jump drive and fitted with more powerful drives and weapons...or a surplus system boat...

Some worlds will hire Mercenary forces to supplement their own local forces. Worlds without a central government may be protected by local companies, or a corporation/Noble that has interests in the system.

I've ran several games where players were part of a group hired for security, and suppression duties using various types of ships, weapons, and vehicles....Usually they worked for a fairly well off world, or a Noble/corporation who had reasons to want to protect a region of space the Fleet couldn't adequately cover due to location, or political pressures...
 
if there is only a D or lower starport, not scout base, or no Naval base you'd be looking at a police cutter, and maybe a few armed small craft...larger star ships, and boats need some sort of support structure to operate in a system exclusively so the better the star port the better the local defenses I'd have to say.


If a world is of sufficient TL they can build and maintain starships even if no starport or mil bases listed. Common misconception though.

But, back to my point; an Imp. world with decent amount of interstellar trade and sufficient TL is going to have the 100D area patrolled by at least your typical SDB's and only military type ships would be able to try "piracy" there.
 
If a world is of sufficient TL they can build and maintain starships even if no starport or mil bases listed. Common misconception though.

But, back to my point; an Imp. world with decent amount of interstellar trade and sufficient TL is going to have the 100D area patrolled by at least your typical SDB's and only military type ships would be able to try "piracy" there.

Not always, an earthlike star has a 100d zone 139,168,400 miles out from it's core. that's a circumference of 436,988,776 spacing out a ship with military sensors means it can cover about a 100k diameter sphere... if a ship made a miscalculation and jumped outside of that circle by just 2% of that distance it results in it jumping in 2,783,368 beyond that limit...that's a 4 hour flight at thrust six...and an 11 hour flight at thrust 2.... which leaves at least four hours if it happened to jump in at the closest point to a system boat doing a 100 diameter patrol. During if a pirate was close by it has four hours before a thrust six vessel can intercept.


If the ship jumped in away from an area where a patrol ship is it may have 10 or twelve hours to intercept the slower ship, force it to dump cargo. In a best case scenario for the pirates, it has several hours to disable and board the target,then transfer cargo, and jump out of the system.

If a squadron had a dozen patrol boats in it, and those boats were scattered in clusters near the most likely arrival points they would still be a few hours away at best for a ship missing one of those predetermined jump points.

even if the patrol is close, say within a few million miles there is a chance the ship can jam a ships comms, and jump it before the patrol realizes there is a hostile attack underway...remember just because it can be seen/detected doesn't mean it WILL be seen detected.
 
Not always, an earthlike star has a 100d zone 139,168,400 miles out from it's core.


You're still not getting it. ANY ship hanging around waiting for merchants will get run down by a 6G warship (SDB). Bu, bye pirate. Either the pirate Jumps out (and thus is gone) or doesn't and gets vaporized. World based passive sensors can spot a ship all the way out to the asteroid belt from Earth btw.

In short, if a ship jumps in and doesn't take a course directly for the main world (thus into the 100D zone where he can't jump) it is considered a pirate and is immediately pursued. The odds of a pirate jumping in and being within weapon range of a merchant is slim to none.
 
Not always, an earthlike star has a 100d zone 139,168,400 miles out from it's core. that's a circumference of 436,988,776 spacing out a ship with military sensors means it can cover about a 100k diameter sphere... if a ship made a miscalculation and jumped outside of that circle by just 2% of that distance it results in it jumping in 2,783,368 beyond that limit...that's a 4 hour flight at thrust six...and an 11 hour flight at thrust 2.... which leaves at least four hours if it happened to jump in at the closest point to a system boat doing a 100 diameter patrol. During if a pirate was close by it has four hours before a thrust six vessel can intercept.
The operative word is 'if'. There is no legitimate reason to lurk at the jump limit, so any ship that does so will raise flags and should cause a patrol ship to intercept. So the prospective prize has to appear in a very limited time window AND just happen to be withing range of the lurking pirate. If an M6 patrol ship will take six hours to intercept, how many hours will it take for a pirate to intercept?


Hans
 
You're still not getting it. ANY ship hanging around waiting for merchants will get run down by a 6G warship (SDB). Bu, bye pirate. Either the pirate Jumps out (and thus is gone) or doesn't and gets vaporized. World based passive sensors can spot a ship all the way out to the asteroid belt from Earth btw.

In short, if a ship jumps in and doesn't take a course directly for the main world (thus into the 100D zone where he can't jump) it is considered a pirate and is immediately pursued. The odds of a pirate jumping in and being within weapon range of a merchant is slim to none.

Oh I am aware of that, but evenif detected it might not be intercepted.

"System control to unidentified ship, transmit identification and state your business."

"This is the Mary Frank, en route to B'eff'ii in convoy with three vessels..we seemed to have arrived ahead of schedule..we're waiting for our friends and doing some maintenance while we wait."

System control to Mary Frank, Acknowledged, please inform System control if you have any issues.


30 hours later..

This is the Imperial Commercial Vessel Hart....under attack request immediate assistance.Repeat, Under attack by commercial vessel Mary Frank....
 
"This is the Mary Frank, en route to B'eff'ii in convoy with three vessels..we seemed to have arrived ahead of schedule..we're waiting for our friends and doing some maintenance while we wait."

WRONG


The response is, "Proceed on this course (28472384) immediately. Failure to comply will result in confiscation of your ship and incarceration."

Do you think that Traffic control people have IQ's <35?
 
IMTU revenue-runners, read as bootleggers, took a back-burner position to the more aggressive and disruptive activities of dedicated pirates and self-proclaimed privateers.

Those operating vessels offering no-questions-asked passage in-out of Imperium controlled space or carrying contraband kept low enough profiles for the less subtle ships flying the black flag so openly as to generally avoid 'official' notice.

Not to suggest smuggling was a 'don't ask-don't tell' issue with the various Imperial authorities whom monitor such, more-so it was extortion of cruise-liner operators and the hijacking of yachts or bonded-couriers that took precedent.
 
WRONG


The response is, "Proceed on this course (28472384) immediately. Failure to comply will result in confiscation of your ship and incarceration."

Do you think that Traffic control people have IQ's <35?

No, not Is of 35, but I do know that ships in transit are not currently required to dock or enter port immediately they have 48 hours to enter port., or make contact with port authority if they need an exception.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/4.3

So theoretically a ship which new a ships route, and knew the area could jump in, come up with a reason to hold outside the limit for some reason for ten or twenty hours to run maintenance dump contaminated ...or to wait for the ships it is "escorting" if it's lucky the target ship could jump in, if it missed it's chance it could just jump to the next system on it's route and try again

Just because a system has a patrol, it cant be everywhere, t cant detect every suspect ship, and sooner or later a persistent ship operator will manage to slip through the cracks....
 
No, not Is of 35, but I do know that ships in transit are not currently required to dock or enter port immediately they have 48 hours to enter port., or make contact with port authority if they need an exception.
21st Century maritime law does not apply to Classic Era space traffic.

So theoretically a ship which new a ships route, and knew the area could jump in, come up with a reason to hold outside the limit for some reason for ten or twenty hours to run maintenance dump contaminated ...or to wait for the ships it is "escorting" if it's lucky the target ship could jump in, if it missed it's chance it could just jump to the next system on it's route and try again.
If pirates is a problem, system defense will be predisposed to prevent potential pirates from lurking at the jump limit. If the incoming ship declares an emergency, a system defense vessel could be sent to assist.

Just because a system has a patrol, it can't be everywhere...
True. But it doesn't have to be. It just has to be everywhere a suspect ship is idling.

... it cant detect every suspect ship...
Yes it can.

...and sooner or later a persistent ship operator will manage to slip through the cracks...
Or it goes bankrupt before it does.

And I repeat my question: If an M6 patrol vessel will take six hours to intercept, how long will it take for a pirate to intercept?


Hans
 
Just because a system has a patrol, it cant be everywhere, t cant detect every suspect ship, and sooner or later a persistent ship operator will manage to slip through the cracks....
Can't be everywhere: correct
Can't detect every ship: wrong.
Can't tell friend from foe: maybe...

We could, if we had the political will, at present build a 99.999% Probability of Detection IR grid that would detect anything human occupied and/or under thrust, and/or most asteroids over 2m and less than 3 AU from Sol...

Rules argument:
If the orbit it's in is ≤60 minutes, then, yes, it can detect every ship within at least 1LS, probably 2. (well beyond the moon. And the Bk 2 limit on military ship's guaranteed detection).

Science Argument:
Space has a background of 3°K. Operating ships are going to be at least 283°K. A 1 second exposure on a 1m scope can pick it up at ≥10LS; a 1/25 sec exposure can pick it up a about 2 LS. at 1/25 sec, that's full motion video. The limit is processing time; digital blink comparison can handle about 1 frame per second of input in real time. If it's got eyes in your direction, the PoD is ≥90% per second...
 
Rules argument:
If the orbit it's in is ≤60 minutes, then, yes, it can detect every ship within at least 1LS, probably 2. (well beyond the moon. And the Bk 2 limit on military ship's guaranteed detection).

Or, one could use MT passive sensor rules and spot the ship out to 2 parsecs :devil:
 
My take is that a ship aims for the position where the target world will be in 168 hours. Say the world moves 200 diameters in 30 hours. If the ship is more than 15 hours early, it winds up over 100 diameters ahead of the target world; if it's more than 15 hours late, it winds up more than 100 diameters behind. Since jump duration is distributed along a bell curve (as specified in T20) this would be quite rare, rare enough for game rules to ignore. If the ship arrives any time from 15 hours early to 15 hours late, it will hit the world's jump limit and be precipitated out there. That would be somewhere along a 180 degree arc with a radius of 100 planetary diameters (relative to the target world).

Hans

This was what I was wondering about. With this sort of jump procedure/system, it minimises the amount of time a vessel spends between the Jump point and any particular world, limiting the amount of space that needs to be surveilled and patrolled. That could put it well within the capabilities of local patrol forces to present an unacceptable threat to pirates.

That's how I have seen it working. And thus, almost no chances for piracy in a developed system. At least against interstellar traffic.

Then it becomes a matter of what in-system traffic takes place and the size of the local economy & such. Even then, if there are a pile of planets outside the 1000D limit for the system primary they would be less likely to be visited, or need to be approached using jump...
 
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