One thing I don't get about extrality
- Thread starter MarianLH
- Start date
Ll5?
If I remember properly, and I am not looking it up right now, but I bet His Grace, Aramis can as he is a bit of Imperial Legal Scholar, all Imperial Starports are Law Level 5, which again, memory not failing me I hope, means handguns only.
Also sophont trafficking is against Imperial Law as well, so if in the Starport with slaves, don't get caught. As well, murder, treason (high and low), unlicensed nuclear weapons transfers also bad ideas if you want to avoid the inside of an Port Authority Brig.
That is just off the top of my head.
If I remember properly, and I am not looking it up right now, but I bet His Grace, Aramis can as he is a bit of Imperial Legal Scholar, all Imperial Starports are Law Level 5, which again, memory not failing me I hope, means handguns only.
Also sophont trafficking is against Imperial Law as well, so if in the Starport with slaves, don't get caught. As well, murder, treason (high and low), unlicensed nuclear weapons transfers also bad ideas if you want to avoid the inside of an Port Authority Brig.
That is just off the top of my head.
ISTR LL3... Really, there isn't much canonical advice on law in extrality zones, other than the known imperial crimes: Treason, murder, kidnap, barratry, hijack, piracy... and posession of Chem, Nukes, Biowarfare, meson artillery, active military hardware (Tanks, Arty, field guns, support weapons), anti-tank weapons, and autofire small arms.
I expect the punishments will be harsh (adv 8: prison planet implies this), and some form of due process is present.
I expect the punishments will be harsh (adv 8: prison planet implies this), and some form of due process is present.
Most extrality Law Levels are set at 4, but some worlds (Sub-Sector Capitals and above) are 5, Military Reservation worlds go from 6-8, Prison Worlds 9. further Weapon restrictions may be tighter in some places due to safety concerns (eg. No Projectile or Coherent Energy Guns in the O'Neil Cylinder)
though the extrality is under Imperial Law the Imperial Authorities work closely with Planetary Authorities and if your relatively minor (under Imperial Law) Crime effects outside the extrality eg. Release of a controlled chemical (under Imperial Law) that is prohibited under planetary law due to Environmental concerns that finds it's way in to the Local Ecology, after you pay your nominal Fine to the 3I you could see your self turned over to Planetary authorities for further Prosecution.
though the extrality is under Imperial Law the Imperial Authorities work closely with Planetary Authorities and if your relatively minor (under Imperial Law) Crime effects outside the extrality eg. Release of a controlled chemical (under Imperial Law) that is prohibited under planetary law due to Environmental concerns that finds it's way in to the Local Ecology, after you pay your nominal Fine to the 3I you could see your self turned over to Planetary authorities for further Prosecution.
I imagine Externality works as it does in the current time. International Law violations are dealt with different international bodies which arbitrate upon the matter (these institutions would have long been codified and part of the treaties of accession into the Imperium unlike bodies today which are mainly voluntary) - sentences as Aramis pointed out are tough for violations of Imperial law. Local law would depend on the lenancy of the presiding judge. As a general rule of thumb, I fall back to the Planetary Law Level and add +2/+4 for infractions. For planetary authorities want to run a tight ship in Starports lest they get accused of being Freeports.
Easterner9504
SOC-13
Extrality
GURPS TRAV describes extrality in detail on p64.
1) There are NO weapon restrictions on hand-carried weapons.
2) Local Laws have no effect, local 'criminals' in extrality zones are not repatriated unless they've violated Imperial Law, true criminals find asylum fleeting. Law leans towards protecting people from repressive regime, politicals, rather than crooks and thieves.
3) Imperial Law is in effect The Imperium provides Law Enforcement or the Imperial Miltary. Per FIRST IN the Scouts Security Service are the Imperiums 'uniformed' cops and handle most starports the Imperium deems need policing.
GURPS TRAV describes extrality in detail on p64.
1) There are NO weapon restrictions on hand-carried weapons.
2) Local Laws have no effect, local 'criminals' in extrality zones are not repatriated unless they've violated Imperial Law, true criminals find asylum fleeting. Law leans towards protecting people from repressive regime, politicals, rather than crooks and thieves.
3) Imperial Law is in effect The Imperium provides Law Enforcement or the Imperial Miltary. Per FIRST IN the Scouts Security Service are the Imperiums 'uniformed' cops and handle most starports the Imperium deems need policing.
CosmicGamer
SOC-14 1K
I'm confused as to what this has to do with extrality.
If an Imperial law is broken somewhere else on an Imperial planet and the person is caught there I still don't see how extrality applies?
How about the possibility of 'roaming' courts. A ship that travels a scheduled route holding court in multiple systems. This ship might also transport anyone convicted.
If it is an Imperial starport, wouldn't the trial take place at the closest Imperial court which could be as close as the starport where the crime was committed and the criminal was caught?
If an Imperial law is broken somewhere else on an Imperial planet and the person is caught there I still don't see how extrality applies?
Isn't the planet still an Imperial territory? For the USA, if someone is captured for breaking a federal law, does it matter if it happens in Washington DC, Atlanta Georgia, Texas, Puerto Rico, or the Virgin Islands? Don't they just go to the 'local' federal court?
How about the possibility of 'roaming' courts. A ship that travels a scheduled route holding court in multiple systems. This ship might also transport anyone convicted.
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Major B
SOC-14 1K
Hmm. Circuit Courts. That also do prisoner transport. I like the idea.
I think the decision on jurisdiction within and extrality zone would also have to take into account the citizenship of the accused. A local who commits a crime within the starport would likely be turned over to the local courts if it was a minor offense (but not for a serious one). An off-worlder would more often be tried under the Imperial system. A serving military or gevernment official would almost certainly be retained under Imperial jurisdiction, depending on the nature of the offense and relations with the local government.
YTU may have different rules of course.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I vaguely recall this being addressed in some adventure or other. Prison Planet? Notes on the Gash in Adv 1 Kinunir? Some other?
My general impression is the nearest Class A or B Starport or Navy or Scout Base would be the location. As for the presiding judge I think the local Imperial Noble would sit or appoint depending on the nature of the crime and accused. It would not imo be a trial by jury. The accused might have an advocate. My overall impression and take is one of swift justice. Fair but hard. If guilty you do not want to face an Imperial criminal court in MTU.
As noted, the High Imperial Crimes above.
On the weapons/LL issues I also recall the Starport Law Level being 3* as Wil noted, excluding Starship weapons (still no Nukes though) though not where that is stated. Also note that is a civilian (in MTU Imperial Citizen) law level. Properly certified and registered Mercenaries may have exemptions allowing lower law level applied to their trade craft.
* though when we played ages ago we only applied the local law level, so stops at low law level worlds were kid-in-a-candy-store shopping trips to Guns-R-Us to buy lasers and grenades and whatever else could be had :devil:
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It seems like extrality creates a hole in the system. Other than regulating commerce, not much is said about Imperial law, but planetary law doesn't apply because of extrality.
Yeah, but it's what happens after someone's arrested that I haven't been able to find anything on. GURPS Starports describes starport security in detail, but doesn't say anything about courthouses.
Marian
Extrality is all about the tacit recognition that today's gangsters can become outstanding members of the community tomorrow. Whilst, the Imperium would take a blind eye to certain crimes that are local others I could see them taking an active interest.
What would be interesting is the Imperium would be involved in Renditions or the forcible redirections of citizens of one world to another...
What would be interesting is the Imperium would be involved in Renditions or the forcible redirections of citizens of one world to another...
Easterner9504
SOC-13
The Imperium does not rule the average planet. Each planet is ruled locally, the Imperium rules the space between planets and the highports and extrality zones. That's it. However it is not Democratic it is Authoritarian and that means capriciousness is normal. So if planet X does something or has something happening on it unsavory then the Imperium does what it wants.
This could be a strike on a pirate base, outright occupation ala Efate, a joint strike with local forces, covert ops, hiring adventurers to do something (common practice I hear), Red Zoning, nuked till glows, whatever is deemed expedient or needed.
Laws are enforced through the Ministry of Justice but certain worlds malefactors can end up in military tribunals if a mil-base is involved.
JTAS #14 covered the criminal justice system.
This could be a strike on a pirate base, outright occupation ala Efate, a joint strike with local forces, covert ops, hiring adventurers to do something (common practice I hear), Red Zoning, nuked till glows, whatever is deemed expedient or needed.
Laws are enforced through the Ministry of Justice but certain worlds malefactors can end up in military tribunals if a mil-base is involved.
JTAS #14 covered the criminal justice system.
Major B
SOC-14 1K
And Easterner's point here implies the difference in how the extrality would be enforced. It depends on the world; more specifically the perceptions of the population and/or government of the world.
A world whose population see the Imperium as "them" may have issues with jurisdiction where a planet whose population thinks of the Imperium as "us" may never even notice crossing the extrality line. Populist governments would tend to reflect the population's sentiments but authoritarian governments may have a different opinion depending on their goals and methods.
Yes, the Imperium rules the space in between much as Rome only owned the roads in Antiquity and had pacts with numerous local leaders accepted tribute to maintain defence, civilization, etc.
However, the Imperium is more complicated than that. Like all interstellar entities or international entities (in today's world) it is a case of governance without government. The Imperium does not directly care about the happenings of its thousand odd worlds but sets up institutions that reproduce a certain pattern of rules and expectations that conform with a set of standards and expectations. This in turn produces a cohesion that allows interstellar trade and commerce to flourish and support a social structure that allows for autonomy and centralization to co-exist.
However, the Imperium is more complicated than that. Like all interstellar entities or international entities (in today's world) it is a case of governance without government. The Imperium does not directly care about the happenings of its thousand odd worlds but sets up institutions that reproduce a certain pattern of rules and expectations that conform with a set of standards and expectations. This in turn produces a cohesion that allows interstellar trade and commerce to flourish and support a social structure that allows for autonomy and centralization to co-exist.
