Opinions wanted: a software solution

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
One other thing, My Klooge sheet failed when it came to tracking ammo with a burst. It is theoretically possible but I never figured it out. (My GRiP T20 and Shadowrun sheets track ammo though.

)

Hmm. Hadn't thought of ammo tracking because a) my players tend to change weapons a lot (to ones they 'acquire' for a short time) and b) they'd have quite a few different magazine sizes, etc. But it should be doable. When I get some time (right now putting in 14+ a day at work on framework code for a massive multi-user system), I'll try to look at this aspect for KW as part of developing some useful stuff for it.

Having a good scripting toolset with a product like this is really nice. For MT characters, I often recommend MTCG, but it won't output anything easily importable. I should really talk to the author, Greg, about getting some source to produce an updated version with a nice windows interface and some good export options (like exporting characters for some GRIP and KW format and mybe XML). Hmmmmm.....

 

[Enoff]

Was MTCG a hypercard program?

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
One other thing, My Klooge sheet failed when it came to tracking ammo with a burst. It is theoretically possible but I never figured it out. (My GRiP T20 and Shadowrun sheets track ammo though.

)

Hmm. Hadn't thought of ammo tracking because a) my players tend to change weapons a lot (to ones they 'acquire' for a short time) and b) they'd have quite a few different magazine sizes, etc. But it should be doable. When I get some time (right now putting in 14+ a day at work on framework code for a massive multi-user system), I'll try to look at this aspect for KW as part of developing some useful stuff for it.

Having a good scripting toolset with a product like this is really nice. For MT characters, I often recommend MTCG, but it won't output anything easily importable. I should really talk to the author, Greg, about getting some source to produce an updated version with a nice windows interface and some good export options (like exporting characters for some GRIP and KW format and mybe XML). Hmmmmm..... </font>[/QUOTE]I would be more interested in a port from PCGen to Klooge than a different piece of software. There was a working D&D example, but something in the build before last, (Or maybe the one before that.) broke the transfer XML code. PC Gen is already set for both MT and T20.

Now if you get the ammo to track right I would be most interested.

I currently use effects to apply burst mods in Klooge for T20.

BTW Grip has no import capability. Nice thought, but that would fit along the same lines as reading the target's sheet and getting the armor value of the target for to hit calculations.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Berg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
My GRiP T20 and Shadowrun sheets track ammo though.

Old girl still has it... </font>[/QUOTE]Yeah, but you know damn well how much work it took to teach that old girl this new trick. And what a mess that was to figure out, both times. (You would think if you had it working for one it would have been a simple cut and paste, but Noooo!

) Definitely not for the faint of heart.

(Especially the stupid Burst fire mods for the T20 sheet.)

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
[qb]One other thing, My Klooge sheet failed when it came to tracking ammo with a burst. It is theoretically possible but I never figured it out. (My GRiP T20 and Shadowrun sheets track ammo though.

)

Hmm. Hadn't thought of ammo tracking because a) my players tend to change weapons a lot (to ones they 'acquire' for a short time) and b) they'd have quite a few different magazine sizes, etc. But it should be doable. When I get some time (right now putting in 14+ a day at work on framework code for a massive multi-user system), I'll try to look at this aspect for KW as part of developing some useful stuff for it.</font>[/QUOTE]Oops, missed this part.

I don't mean ammo tracking as in how much total ammo they have, I never bothered with that. I mean ammo tracking in terms of your magazine running out of ammo and the hammer falling on an empty chamber, in the middle of a firefight. I eliminated the Rambo clips and infinite machine gun belts for my GRiP T20 and Shadowrun sheets but couldn't figure out how to make it work in Klooge.

Though in all fairness when I did my Klooge T20 sheet it was impossible to have an ammo use above one.) One nice thing about Klooge, the developer is still working on the software and he added that capability after I brought up the concept of using something other than a Crossbow or Long Bow in an RPG.

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
BTW Grip has no import capability. Nice thought, but that would fit along the same lines as reading the target's sheet and getting the armor value of the target for to hit calculations.

I was thinking of programatically building a character sheet or griplets. I naively assumed the storage formats or data entry formats might be something one could reverse engineer. They could be some proprietary binary format too, now that I recall more clearly. Humph.

MCTG: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/gsvenson/mtcg.html

Not hypercard, no. C++ I think. Windows EXE that runs in a command window with text input and output. I think an XP service pack has bollixed the cmd windows though... they used to run fine now, but lately running MTCG (even old versions) is doing mean and ugly things - not taking data right. I think some changes has busted this very basic functionality... argh

 

[kaladorn]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
Though in all fairness when I did my Klooge T20 sheet it was impossible to have an ammo use above one.) One nice thing about Klooge, the developer is still working on the software and he added that capability after I brought up the concept of using something other than a Crossbow or Long Bow in an RPG.

One of the reasons I *like* the idea of Klooge. Open source, proprietary source, pay-for, not-pay-for... I don't care. Supported is just a big plus. In fact, it is double-plus good.

Besides, you could still have used KW on a TL-2 or 3 world just fine... Longbow... that's luxury... I remember when all we had was darts and we liked it that way... these darn youngsters with their fancy crossbows.... never did a day of honest work... armour too.... what else do they want? <ramble, ramble, rant, rant>

 

[Berg]

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
I would be more interested in a port from PCGen to Klooge than a different piece of software.

A guy from PCGen is working on getting it to export to Maptool...

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
Yeah, but you know damn well how much work it took to teach that old girl this new trick.

Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
One nice thing about Klooge, the developer is still working on the software...

Agreed... being supported is nice... *hint, hint*

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by Berg:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
Yeah, but you know damn well how much work it took to teach that old girl this new trick.

</font>[/QUOTE]As far as I could tell, there were few people that could even follow the CSML I was writing, that went into the T20 sheet for the weapons blocks.

And when I posted the CSML for people to look into the SR3 weapons code and find my typo (And it turned out it was a typo and a loop in a nested IF-Then which I had to replace with goto commands. YUCK!) there didn't appear to be any one that could follow it.

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
One nice thing about Klooge, the developer is still working on the software...

Agreed... being supported is nice... *hint, hint* </font>[/QUOTE]Well an update to GRiP would bring in money for Hunter. (Especially if he added graphics support similar to Klooge and added plug and play router support similar to Screen Monkey.) Adding a GRiP section to this board would be a simple thing to do. Further if you could just download the GRiP Software from this website WE might be able to sell a few copies.

 

[BetterThanLife]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BetterThanLife:
Though in all fairness when I did my Klooge T20 sheet it was impossible to have an ammo use above one.) One nice thing about Klooge, the developer is still working on the software and he added that capability after I brought up the concept of using something other than a Crossbow or Long Bow in an RPG.

One of the reasons I *like* the idea of Klooge. Open source, proprietary source, pay-for, not-pay-for... I don't care. Supported is just a big plus. In fact, it is double-plus good.

Besides, you could still have used KW on a TL-2 or 3 world just fine... Longbow... that's luxury... I remember when all we had was darts and we liked it that way... these darn youngsters with their fancy crossbows.... never did a day of honest work... armour too.... what else do they want? <ramble, ramble, rant, rant> </font>[/QUOTE]I used it in all aspects. I was just annoyed that I couldn't get it to track ammo. (And how much of a pain it was to get the burst fire mods in right.) My T20 campaign is currently on hiatus. I needed a break after almost 2 years of GMing. When I go back to it, it will, most likely, be Klooge that I am using. (I hate the GRiP incessant tab flipping and going to listen mode if someone drops a connection.)

 

[Enoff]

Thanks for the MTCG link Kaladorn!

 

[heruca]

One other thing, My Klooge sheet failed when it came to tracking ammo with a burst. It is theoretically possible but I never figured it out.

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but I thought you might like to know that ammo tracking in Klooge now seems to be possible. See these threads for info:
http://www.kloogeinc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2801
http://www.kloogeinc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2767&p=13062

 

[LIRPGANC]

My maiden post.

I've been spending the past few days reading posts in a couple of the forums that I have a particular interest in - specifically, this one and the Classic Traveller forum.

As far as this forum goes, I've read some interesting threads on GRiP, and KloOge, and openRPG, and am still trying to make a decision between them.

I registered on the GRiP forum and read quite a bit there, and from what I can gather, it seems GRiP is falling behind its competition due to a lack of developer support? Is that correct? Is GRiP development continuing currently? I am leery of spending money on a product that isn't up to its competition's standards and has no active support...

KloOge seems to me to be the best of the three I mentioned - at least opinion-wise - but then it also appears to be the most expensive.

openRPG is appealing because it is free. But poking around at the openRPG website reveals that almost all of the resource links are dead. No plugins, no graphics, no sheets... makes me leery as well.

I guess my biggest question, realistically, is how difficult is it to configure House Rules into GRiP, KloOge, and openRPG?

For example, I use the Classic Traveller rules set, but somewhat modified. The skills are completely re-written, and there are perks & limitations (similar to gurps advantages & disadvantages) though not gigantic gurps-esque laundry lists of them.

I've absolutely no experience with online RPGing of this kind. Back in the day I used to MUSH and MUD, but these sorts of software solutions seem completely different (and much more preferable)!

And since I have yet to locate local players for a CT game, I am seriously considering an online solution for expanding a potential player-base option.

Pardon me while I necro a dead post..

I remember Hunter helping me log into GRIP the very first time I used it, from one of those Guildhall rooms on the GRIP Server thing. I don't know how long ago that was, but I'll guess over 5 years at least.

To this day, I still use GRIP, in fact I play about every game you can think of on GRIP: Star Wars d20, Star Wars SAGA, D&D, AD&D, Conan RPG, Star Trek, Alternity both Star Drive and Dark Matter, Conspiracy X, Top Secret, Lord of the Rings, Vampire 2nd and 3rd edition, Werewolf, Werewolf Wild West, All Flesh must be Eaten, Twilight 2000... The list goes on.

I probably have 100 gigs devoted to GRIP related material - character sheets, adventures, and related sounds and pictures..

Nothing - NOTHING - that I have found out there compares to GRIP. GRIP was fantastic - not only the genius of being able to devise character sheets with a pretty friendly sheet designer ( as opposed to those ugly tree's you see in a lot of net based RPG applications ) that let you pick your fonts, put in your images, etc.

GRIP has such basic features that are overlooked by the competition. For example, Fantasy Grounds. You can't do much with this on the fly. You got to load your entire module, then start the game. GRIP you can add encounters and write an entire adventure WHILE the game is going on. Fantasy Grounds doesn't let you change font sizes, font colors, or move the chat window around. You have to stare at their tiny font which is hard on the eyes after a while. It's just not as friendly as GRIP.

Other programs might let you work with the fonts, but they won't let you send files - I mean I can't see how GRIP hasn't become the top rated tool for Internet gaming. In fact I think I remember first seeing it on the back of Dragon or Dungeon Magazine!

Now that Windows Vista is out, my players are not able to connect to GRIP anymore. I just ordered a new computer - and specifically put windows XP on there so that I could keep playing on GRIP!

I will take GRIP to grave with me - and I haven't really had any of the bugs people encounter. With a direct peer to peer connection, my grip games run for 10 hours without a hiccup.

I pray Hunter has the time to work on GRIP, though it's selfish - because I just want to play on it! LOL! I had hoped maybe he figured out a patch or something to make the old grip work on Vista.

But as long as I have a working GRIP ( backed up in many places because its getting harder to find it - and god forbid you lose that key and have to reinstall! ) --- I'll keep using it!