Patron Question

[ninjasan8]

Hi all. Long time lurker, first time poster here. I've been reading the Classic Traveller books setting up for my first campaign, and I had a quick question about Patrons.

When generating patrons (either randomly or not) is there a table or rule for how much money the players should get paid per job? Like the average loot rules from some fantasy RPGs (how much loot players should get per level per adventure). I've re-read the rules trying to find this, but to no avail. The intro to the Patron generation section in Book 3 hints at something like this, but I don't really see anything. I know there's a supplement for Patrons, but does that provide any guidelines, or only examples?

I've heard that some other versions of the CT game (Traveller Book, Starter Traveller, etc) clarify or expand upon some rules. If there is more information on this topic in any of the other sets, please let me know, I'd like to pick them up. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[aramis]

It's not really presented. The CT 76 Patrons and MGT 760 patrons provide lots of examples. CT Mercenary provides pay scale for merc characters, from which you can derive requisite merc unit pay to make a profit.

MGT mercenary includes a system for contracts for merc units, but has so many "WTF‽‽‽" moments in the Mercenary subsystems that I hesitate to recommend it.

Further still, almost all editions have charter rules for when you want a patron to rent out the ship... but players probably should not be willing to do so with a merchantman; a scout, corsair, lab ship or other non-commercial ship, sure.

And remember: if the money's better than carrying cargo at standard rates, so is the risk to be expected.

 

[Icosahedron]

It's left to the Ref to decide - depending on what you want the group to do, how easy or hard you want to make life for them, what level of game you're playing, etc.

As Aramis says, you can use the pay grades for crew and soldiers, the ship overheads and income, and the PC chargen cash bonuses to figure out a general level of the economy and decide how much you want to give them.

It also depends on their current circumstances - if they're destitute, have loan sharks eyeing their kneecaps and need to buy a loaf of bread, they may work for less money than if they have their own ship, several NPC employees on the payroll and need to replace a laser turret.

 

[ninjasan8]

Thanks for the quick answers, both of you, it's really appreciated. That's kind of what I was afraid of. I hadn't thought about using the other charts as a reference. I'll check into that. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[McPerth]

It also depends on their current circumstances - if they're destitute, have loan sharks eyeing their kneecaps and need to buy a loaf of bread, they may work for less money than if they have their own ship, several NPC employees on the payroll and need to replace a laser turret.

This can also be used by the referee to give some clues about the mission ahead:

- The Duke's son only offers us KCr 10 apiece to rescue his elder brother... I guess he don't want him rescued...

- Where in the hell has this scout obtained the MCr 1 he offers us? I guess there's somewhat larger than he tells on ths mission...

etc...

 

[ShapeShifter]

If you want a rugged, gritty, cynical campaign, then make sure the Patron is a sleeze and doesn't pay them fully (using any number of excuses to stiff them), or only pays them a small amount. As a referee you have to keep 'em hungry.

On the other hand, if you have a shiny, happy campaign where there are daffodils and pink bunnies and unicorns and everyone has a permanent rictus, then pay them millions of credits for a job well done...and a pony. :rofl:

(I sooo want a campaign like that!)

 

[McPerth]

If you want a rugged, gritty, cynical campaign, then make sure the Patron is a sleeze and doesn't pay them fully (using any number of excuses to stiff them), or only pays them a small amount. As a referee you have to keep 'em hungry.

On the other hand, if you have a shiny, happy campaign where there are daffodils and pink bunnies and unicorns and everyone has a permanent rictus, then pay them millions of credits for a job well done...and a pony. :rofl:

(I sooo want a campaign like that!)

Well, on an adventure I refereed some years ago, my players (mostly the most veteran ones) where scared and suspicious when a patron payed them in full and at time after a relatively easy mission (and they where rightly so, of course...:devil

 

[rancke]

If you want a rugged, gritty, cynical campaign, then make sure the Patron is a sleeze and doesn't pay them fully (using any number of excuses to stiff them), or only pays them a small amount. As a referee you have to keep 'em hungry.

Just make sure your players are OK with their characters being shafted over and over again. Otherwise the campaign can easily degenerate into a GM vs. players conflict. Some people like that sort of thing, but in other cases it can really ruin a campaign.

Also, one very common response to that sort of thing is for the players to decide that they want payback and have their characters go after the former patron in order to get their money -- with interest! Again, this can work really well if the GM is on board with it, but it can upset the usual campaign dynamics and lead to bad feelings if he had expected the PCs to just accept it and meekly slink away.


Hans

 

[CosmicGamer]

Lets go do this dangerous, possibly shady job for someone with no contract, no knowledge of who they are or references of their reliability as a patron, and with just a promise of money at the end? Sorry GM my character has INT > 3 and doesn't take the job.

If it is a routine type of job with little risk (are you playing Traveller?) there could be a "common" fee for it with no negotiation. "Haul my cargo from here to your next stop on the main." Ok, cough up standard freight costs. "Haul my cargo into a red zone" let negotiations, and role playing, begin. How much should they get paid? Perhaps the GM should make the patron have a set max price they are willing to pay but would that be their first offer? Wouldn't the players/characters negotiate? When the characters want more than the patron is willing to offer does the patron walk away, perhaps hoping the characters will reconsider, or is it the type of patron that agrees, knowing that they will stiff the characters and not pay a portion due when the job is completed. Not every patron/job should be played out the exact same way.

I've seen situations where the players go along with what the GM throws at them because they know this is the direction the characters need to go to move the plot along. There are also times the players feel railroaded because the GM continuously leaves the characters with no choice but to do things the way the GM has planned out. I find it's best when the players are good at creating detailed characters and staying in character. The GM knows what can help motivate them besides money. For example, you know one character has a soft place for children so if a job is to protect or somehow help a child this character will encourage the others to take it. Another character might be the type to never turn down a challenge and another will always help a damsel in distress. Maybe they are proud of their nationality and are more likely to help out any mission that comes from the government. Picture of the emperor in a tall hat pointing: "The emperor needs you!" ...

So it's not always about a set # of credits. Sometimes it might be a barter type of job. The characters want something for the ship or charges against a crew member dropped or... The possibilities are as endless as your imagination, or the books, TV, and movies you steal from.

Perhaps this is why there are no set rules on recompense.

 

[ninjasan8]

Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'm working on a simple chart with example payments per type of job and difficulty. CosmicGamer - I never thought about roleplaying the bartering for the amount of pay per job. I guess I always saw the patron as being the least important part of the mission. Now based on what everyone has said, I guess I need to rethink my adventures a little. I like the idea of cheating patron and the situation de-volving into combat. Not every time, but makes for a fun adventure.

 

[Nightwind1]

If you want a rugged, gritty, cynical campaign, then make sure the Patron is a sleeze and doesn't pay them fully (using any number of excuses to stiff them), or only pays them a small amount. As a referee you have to keep 'em hungry.

And in this case, the patron's name is Mr. Johnson, eh, chummer?

 

[dean]

Great post, CosmicGamer! Lots of intelligent ideas in there!

 

[McPerth]

It's true, as CosmicGamer says, that most missions being offered in Traveller (any version, AFAIK) would not be accepted by any person with an intelligence 3+, and most poeple with inteligence 2 would think twice about them.

But let's not forget Traveller is a game, and for most of us (if not all) the goal is to be amused and have a good time, and if we reject most missions we won't even think about in real world, most times we will be bored, having a character life not too far from the real one (with more tech gadgets, true).

So, in my experience as referee and player, the true reward of most of the missions is the excitement of the play, and so we tend to accept missions whose conditions would be taken as a joke in real world.

Just try to put your players on a position where, after they have discovered what's happening, the wise way to take is to tell the authorities and just wach from distance as the Imperial Marines (or equivalent in your TU) solve it, and tell me how many times they won't try to solve it by themselves.

When I put my players in such a situation, they were lost without the Imperial Marines ever knowing they have found something. Luckly it was played as a single adventure, not as a campaign, or I myslef would have been in trouble...

 

[Metropolitan District 268]

CosmicGamer has hit the nail on the head.

Classic Traveller is a loose framework of rules within which the role play is the thing. Is there a set table of fees? Um ... hardly. This is the wild frontier of space, where men are real men, women are real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri are real small furry creatures from Alpha Centuri (oops, sorry, wrong milieu ...)

Who's the beggar and who's the chooser?

If this patron is offering the only paying job for parsecs, there's a whole starport full of A2 Far Traders with arrears on their loans and the skip-chasers arriving in town, chances are that if your characters don't agree to do it for the price of the next loan repayment on an A2, somebody else probably will and they won't get the job.

On the other hand, if the patron is desperate and your characters have the only J-2 ship available, they can probably dictate the price.

Make the price fit the scenario; adjust for what you know about your players; and remember that this is all about giving them an enjoyable evening's gaming NOT giving them a fixed reward for a fixed contract (if that's what they are after, they can always take up bridge ... )

 

[nats]

I would let the campaign/player needs decide what they get paid - if you know they need some weapons give them slightly less than enough to buy everything they want plus some food and subsidence costs. If they are far too well off give them nothing or arrange for them to lose money!! I think its good refereeing to ensure that the players never have it too easy and if they have everything they want then they wont need that next mission. A good plan is to offer them a fortune (MCr1 etc) but ensure they will never get it by making it too dangerous and ending up with them bottling out with just their lives intact etc! Greed will always get them interested in that impossible mission.