A ship can have thermoelectric generators (that's what powers Curiousity), why waste the heat?
Perfect Adventuring starship?
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
A ship can have thermoelectric generators (that's what powers Curiousity), why waste the heat?
Don't they work by heat difference? In other words, you're still dumping energy to space in the course of creating that temperature difference, and still glowing in infrared (unless you adopt Timerover's pocket-universe heat sink)? Can't violate entropy.
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
You could use the heat to power small thermocouples - but the heat has to go somewhere. The heat isn't converted into energy - it's the flow of heat from a hot source to a cold one that generates energy. Notice the fins on RTG power sources (Pioneers, Voyagers, Curiosity) - these dump the heat into the environment, allowing the flow of heat from the hot core of the RTG to the cooler environment thus allowing work to be done.
Devices which convert heat directly into energy are perpetual motion machines of the second kind.
The only way to get a 'IR invisible' ship would be to dump the heat somewhere other than space where everyone can see. Internal heat sinks are possible, but would 'fill up' pretty quickly and would make you even more obvious when you vented them, or have 'subspace' to shove the heat into. Venting a coolant to remove heat is no good as it would show up against the absolute zero (well technically ~3K) of space as a tail following the ship.
Of course and nobody said it would be 100% efficient.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_effect
Though Traveller spacecraft are absurdly powerful by our standards, diving into Jupiter to refuel, it makes things like heat management a very minor quibble from an engineering standpoint.
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
My apologies I missed a bit.
You have three types of perpetual motion machines. They are named for the thermodynamic law they violate.
The First Kind creates energy from nothing (first law violation)
The Second Kind directly converts thermal energy into work (second law violation)
The Third Kind is 100% effeciency (third law violation).
I don't think there is a Zeroth law PM machine (yet).
Lycanorukke
SOC-13
Speculating...
I dont see why the heat can't be focused in a certain direction if you design it right (refridgerate/insulate/shroud all the parts except the 'emission cone') but to make it appear 'behind' would require something for it to reflect off, and "behind" is relative to which way the observer is looking at you - what is 'behind' to one ship is 'front on' to another.
Of course, you dont know what is going to cross you heat cone (which is now concentrated like a searchlight), and the effeciency of the radiator would be poor (directional heat release as opposed to omnidirectional). The best bet would be to park around a GG with other rocks, and point your "heat beam" at the GG so the heat emitted downwards would be lost or obscured by the heat from the GG, and hope that no bored astronomer does detailed heat scans on GGs.
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If this ship is intended to enter zhodani space, I guess as soon as the Zho's see a suspicious asteroid a psionic life sense scanning will be in order, as well as some use of clairvoyance, and I wonder how long will the ruse work
My apologies I missed a bit.
So? Nobody is talking perpetual motion.
I will: I support the cat & toast perpetual motion drive.
...or have kids. Where does the energy come from?
Though to reiterate another post, given the timeline of thousands of years, it might seem like forever, but it's not.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
I've often thought they leech it from their parents through some psychic connection
The more enegetic the kids the more wore out the adults around them are.It's kinda like we're all born with a battery of a set size and power, too much energy when we're young and small, just right when we mature, and never does hold quite as much charge as it gets older
I've often thought they leech it from their parents through some psychic connection
It's kinda like we're all born with a battery of a set size and power, too much energy when we're young and small, just right when we mature, and never does hold quite as much charge as it gets older
You might be on to something there, sounds like battery powered tools I own, too bad we can't change the battery. Though considering everything else wearing out as well...I'll take a new brain, I think this one is full, everytime I learn something new, I forget something else.
Lets see I like the following
Far Trader-Good for the trading group and can do the adventure of the week to earn extra cash
Type S Scout- Good for a smaller group to do the adventure of the week but might as well upgrade to the Far Trader
Close Escort-Either the Gazelle or the Firery for the Space Merc Campaign.
Far Trader-Good for the trading group and can do the adventure of the week to earn extra cash
Type S Scout- Good for a smaller group to do the adventure of the week but might as well upgrade to the Far Trader
Close Escort-Either the Gazelle or the Firery for the Space Merc Campaign.
Timerover51
SOC-14 5K
I've often thought they leech it from their parents through some psychic connection
I have been telling that to parents for years, and they all agree with me, and I am a parent myself. I figure that kids are the original vampires, draining energy from all adults around them.
Riik O'Shae
SOC-11
That works both ways!
I have been with the Sea Scouts program for a number of years and seeing the joy in their hearts on their faces is better than anagathics.
Sto lat'
Riik
mbrinkhues
SOC-14 1K
I use mostly official ships since they give me pictures and deckplans(2)
For "civilian"groups I have always liked
Typ-M 600dton Liner/Freighter
Depending on the group this was tailored. Some where mostly "freighers" (removing most of the passenger cabins) one was a "rich players plaything" (They where "X-Boat Man"(1)). The ship has good legs, can carry some guns but is no "combat craft"
Lorimar Merchant Cruiser
A relatively big ship with some sting. Used "as is" (and with the original QLI scenario) and in a modified version that dropped the backup jump drive and "played around" with some other backup systems to make a smuggler/blockade runner. For some one-shots I used a heavily modified "nobles yacht" version with the group as crew. Long legs, good accell, decend guns. The large crew makes for a number of NPC but that is fine with me, gives something to do during jumps
For military games I use
Gazelle or Fiery class
More often the Fiery with her planetfall capability
Javelin Mercenary cruiser
Prefer that one to the Broadsword due to it's capacity
(1) Stay at least a sector away and (mostly) out of Imperial News Network / Vagr News and we will send regular money orders by X-Boat
(2) Yes, the plans may be wrong. But players who start counting blocks/checking plans and similar try to turn the game into "MBA 101" or "nitpickers 101" will get introduced to the "2x4 rule" - leave now or I use a 2x4 on you
For "civilian"groups I have always liked
Typ-M 600dton Liner/Freighter
Depending on the group this was tailored. Some where mostly "freighers" (removing most of the passenger cabins) one was a "rich players plaything" (They where "X-Boat Man"(1)). The ship has good legs, can carry some guns but is no "combat craft"
Lorimar Merchant Cruiser
A relatively big ship with some sting. Used "as is" (and with the original QLI scenario) and in a modified version that dropped the backup jump drive and "played around" with some other backup systems to make a smuggler/blockade runner. For some one-shots I used a heavily modified "nobles yacht" version with the group as crew. Long legs, good accell, decend guns. The large crew makes for a number of NPC but that is fine with me, gives something to do during jumps
For military games I use
Gazelle or Fiery class
More often the Fiery with her planetfall capability
Javelin Mercenary cruiser
Prefer that one to the Broadsword due to it's capacity
(1) Stay at least a sector away and (mostly) out of Imperial News Network / Vagr News and we will send regular money orders by X-Boat
(2) Yes, the plans may be wrong. But players who start counting blocks/checking plans and similar try to turn the game into "MBA 101" or "nitpickers 101" will get introduced to the "2x4 rule" - leave now or I use a 2x4 on you
Vladika
SOC-14 1K
There is NO "conductivity" in a vacuum.
Heat transfers in three ways: Conduction, Convection and Radiant.
In a vacuum, heat transfers by radiant means ONLY.
Conduction: heat moves through a mass.
Convention: heat move through a fluid (gas or liquid).
Science is science and that is that.
1. That post was over a year ago.
2. If you followed the link, you'd have found discussions of thermal transfer in near-vacuum conditions. Ergo, he wasn't intending ideal vacuum.
I agree with you in that I don't think he understood the science. Space is not a perfect vacuum, but - as they say - it's close enough for gub'mint work. The amount of heat transfer from the few molecules floating about out there is insignificant, extremely insignificant. Still, there's been a lot of water under that bridge since then.
