Prior History, and multiclassing

[PierceBoldmen]

I think I am getting it now but here is another question. Do I roll for benifits when I muster out/retire, or get kicked out from one prior-history service before joining another one? Whats to stop me from rejoining a prior-history service later (granted that would not seem to make any sense)?

Also just so that I am clear. I join the Marines and roll on the Marine prior history chart. I have to take my 1st level as a Marine? As I gain levels, in the Marine prior history, I can take them in any class I qualify for and gain that classes skills, BaB, saves, feats, and special feats only, for that level. I use that classes skill list to find out what my cross-class skill will be for that level. So doing it this way I can be a Marine Doctor(level 1 marine/3 professional) whose rank in the Marines is a Force Commander.

Now when I leave the Marine prior history and join another one, say Rogue, do I roll to muster out? Also now that I am no longer in the Marine prior history, that means that I can no longer gain levels as a Marine right? Same goes for the Army and Navy. I know about the rule for Scouts.

Now does not being able to multi-class into a class (say mercenary), or you don't qualify for a class mean you can't choose it's prior history as well? Ex) I don't start as a mercenary, and never join a service which means that I can't be a merc; so can I still use the Mercenary Prior history charts?

Heh I think that is enough questions for now

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

OK. First, thanks to everyone who's replied here so far - sorry if I'm being particularly dense over this

. My basic problem seems to be in relating multiclassing to careers. I think I may be slowly getting there though...!

So, would I be right in thinking that your career doesn't really mean much in terms of the skills and feats you get? It sounds like the class that you're currently levelling up in determines those. If that's right, then you only use your career to determine what your assignments, survival chances, ranks, rewards, and mustering out benefits are, right?

And is it possible to spend a term in another career and then return to your current career afterwards? (i.e. do one term in Scouts, then another in Academic, then a third in Scouts), or do you have to muster out in Scouts to do that? Just that this way of doing it seems more intuitive to me.

I think I'm starting to understand how this works, though I don't find it particularly intuitive! But at least it's starting to click

.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by DrSkull:
Class and prior history career can be entirely separate (except for Service classes).

You could, perfectly legally, if it hasn't changed from the last playtest draft, go to university, then serve 7 terms in the Academic career in prior history, but put all your EXP into the Rogue class, and come out as a single-classed 10th level rogue (like Bill Murray from Ghostbusters?).

Um, the prior career chapter says that you can work in a career you have a class in, so I don't see you could do that. You have to have one level of academic.

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
[QBOK, I grasp this general concept, but if you're taking the Rogue prior then what on earth is the point of applying the XP to a different class?

It's just like life. I got an electrical engineering degree, have been working as a programmer, and am told that I can make more money as a cost analyst. A rogue who progresses as an academic might be, say, a dirtbag who signed on to an expidition with the intent of acting as an inside man for a con job, but the job falls through and he is forced to earn honet pay along the way. Or a rogue learns about manufacturing drugs and learns the associated chemistry skills. Etc.

The marine example is a good one. All real US marines are required to be expert marksmen and participate in rigorous physical training regardless of what their MOS is; I think it is safe to assume this applies to imperial marines. But marines aren't all just groundpounders. Marines can be grunts, but they also need supply officers, mechanics, psychologists, lawyers, medics, and so on. A marine doctor might spend a few terms in the marine and end up as a marine 1 / academic 4. A marine field medic might more properly be a marine 3/academic2. A dirtbag who makes extra money from the members of the platoon on the side might be a marine4/rogue1. Hudson, the tech from Aliens might be a marine3/professional2. A drop ship pilot might be a marine2/traveller3. A marine staff officer that rubs elbows with the brass might be a marine1/academic3/noble1. All made from characters that never served anywhere but the marines.

And it's not like you're barred from getting a lot of skills/feats if you don't multiclass.

Oh? Try to make a marine doctor without crossclassing and then compare it to an academic doctor, and I think you will notice the disparity.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by PierceBoldmen:
Also just so that I am clear. I join the Marines and roll on the Marine prior history chart. I have to take my 1st level as a Marine? As I gain levels, in the Marine prior history, I can take them in any class I qualify for and gain that classes skills, BaB, saves, feats, and special feats only, for that level. I use that classes skill list to find out what my cross-class skill will be for that level. So doing it this way I can be a Marine Doctor(level 1 marine/3 professional) whose rank in the Marines is a Force Commander.

Good so far, except that you don't HAVE to take your first level as a Marine, but you DO have the option to do so.

Now when I leave the Marine prior history and join another one, say Rogue, do I roll to muster out? Also now that I am no longer in the Marine prior history, that means that I can no longer gain levels as a Marine right? Same goes for the Army and Navy. I know about the rule for Scouts.

Because Mustering Out is conceptually the end of a particular career, you do indeed handle all of the appropriate Muster Out procedures for your terms in the Marines when you leave the Marines. Notice that a fair number of the services offer attribute increases in Muster Out. These can possibly aid your entry into another career, so they are worth doing at that point.

And yes, once you've mustered out of the Marine Prior Service path, you may no longer take levels in Marine. If you want to continue the martial path after leaving the Marines, consider the Mercenary class, since that's what it for...

Now does not being able to multi-class into a class (say mercenary), or you don't qualify for a class mean you can't choose it's prior history as well? Ex) I don't start as a mercenary, and never join a service which means that I can't be a merc; so can I still use the Mercenary Prior history charts?

Hmm (flipping pages). I take the text under "Profession" at the bottom of page 120, first column, to indicate that the answer to this is "no." To follow the employment path ("Prior History") related to a non-Service class, it says you have to have at least one level in the related class. Sounds fairly clear to me, and it also makes sense.

 

[GypsyComet]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:

1) I'm assuming that it's possible to spend a term in another class (ie. spend a couple of terms as a Scout, then a term as an Academic, then a term as a Professional, then go back to Scouts). So the XP one gains over that term goes solely to increasing the multiclassed level, and not the original level (which sounds like it'll make for easier book-keeping). Is this even a valid assumption or not?

As noted, you spend TERMS in a career earning EXP, and then spend the EXP on levels in various classes. The classes you take levels in do not HAVE to have anything to do with the career you earned the EXP from, though generally the two will be related somehow just for clarity of character concept.

2) But from what I've gathered here, you can just hop around over most of the classes when you're doing your terms and education. This sounds a lot harder to keep track of, and also makes me wonder what the point of doing "terms" is in this context.

Page 438 might help a little in the "keeping track of it all" department...

The point of prior service and Terms is to provide the character with a history of some sort, as well as starting cash and equipment. Note the entries in several services Muster Out tables that provide access/ownership of a starship. Getting a ship some other way is VERY expensive (either in terms of money, service, or mandatory stays at the Imperial Bed and Breakfast).

Prior Service provides each player with another way to describe a character. From an RP standpoint, I'm not sure I care that you've 3 levels in Marine, one in Merc, and two in Rogue. Introducing yourself as "An ex-Marine gone seamy", or just "Sgt. Justin Malloy, Imperial Marines, retired, dammit" tells me quite enough to interact with the character meaningfully, without you spouting classes and levels.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

Part of the confusion is the tacking of a basic concept of the T20 game mechanic: Class and Level onto a basic concept of the True Traveller experience: Prior History.

Class and level are game mechanics that helps describes your character's skills and basic nature. A 10 level Academic is going to be expected to have different skills, strengths, weakenesses and preferred modes of problem solving from those of a 10 level Merc. However it is an ABSTRACT and a game mechanic. No one goes around with 3rd level sewn on their coat. you can't look at somone and say. AHA there goes a rogue. (at least not in the sense of AHA I know what character class he is!) Class and level do not have any practical existence in the In Character/In Game world.

Prior history is a game mechanic that allows you to generate a character with a PAST and game out that past. How did your character GET to 10th level? Prior History is all about In Character actions and In Game risks/rewards/defeats.

In previous incarnations of Traveller Prior history was the only thing resembling class. To describe the situation in d20 terminology: there was only the 'traveller' class.

All these 'travellers' had to differentiate themselves was their past histories.

In original traveller each type of career dictated which skills and attribute bonuses a character recieved. In T20 this was simplified from a complex matrix of 'skill tables' based on rank, branch of service, type of duty etc. to simple xp awards.

to put it simply. even though the names sometimes match PRior career and Class are two different things.

Class and level are Game mechanic abstract descriptions of what your character IS. Just like stats themselves. No one says, in game, "AHA I have a strength of seventeen!" they say something like "I am the strongest man in the Sub Sector1"
Likewise non-one walks into a bar with '7th level Marine' stitched on his sleave.

Past History is an In game product that give you an idea of what you have done In Character from birth to the moment you start adventuring. In (mostly) 4 year chunks, it tells you what you DID in game. What jobs you held, what awards you earned, how much cash you saved before you switched jobs. With Referee help in can also tell you that when you (for example) quit the marines your buddies in the regiment clubbed together and bought you a marine cutless with all kinds of cool(and personal) engraving. Or maybe it tells you that you managed to smuggle out your service pistol that served you faithfully through 12 years of duty. (two ways to flesh out the 'weapon' result in 'material benefits')

You won't see the '7th level Marine' but you may see a Marine with decorations his chest and hashmarks on his sleave. (of course he might actually be 7th level rogue who happened to serve in the marines. Flashman makes a good example.)

I hope this helps with the conceptual issue of what the difference is between class and prior history and why different careers and/or multi classing can be cool.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Garf: Thanks, I think you've hit the nail on the head there (for me at least) as to the source of the confusion.

Let me see if I've got this right - you can only spend a term in another career if you muster out of your current one. Is that correct?

The XP that you get during a term can be spent on any class that you're eligible for. Right now, my character is a 6th level Scout with 18,500 XP at the end of his second term (having spent all his XP on the Scout class), but theoretically he could be a Scout 1/Rogue 1/Professional 1/Academic 1/Traveller 1/Merchant 1 (which adds up to 6th level). While that's pretty well rounded, it's probably not a good way to spend 18,500 XP

. Have I got this correct now?

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
Let me see if I've got this right - you can only spend a term in another career if you muster out of your current one. Is that correct?

Essentially, yes. If you muster out of or fail to reenlist in a non-service career, you cannot work in the next term.

The XP that you get during a term can be spent on any class that you're eligible for. Right now, my character is a 6th level Scout with 18,500 XP at the end of his second term (having spent all his XP on the Scout class), but theoretically he could be a Scout 1/Rogue 1/Professional 1/Academic 1/Traveller 1/Merchant 1 (which adds up to 6th level). While that's pretty well rounded, it's probably not a good way to spend 18,500 XP

. Have I got this correct now?

So long as you meet the requirements for all of those. You wouldn't be able to take a level in merchant, since the multiclassing requirements for merchant say you must be working as a merchant in prior history.

 

[BrennanHawkwood]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
OK, I grasp this general concept, but if you're taking the Rogue prior then what on earth is the point of applying the XP to a different class? You've spent 4 years being a rogue, and then you're going to suddenly go up a level or two (maybe) as an Academic?! Why not just take the prior in Academic and apply the XP there instead? Granted, maybe that was an extreme example you used - but I just have trouble understanding *why* one would do this.

The Prior History Terms are...the segment of industry the character is employed with, not how they are working or what they learned during that term. What classes you take during the prior history sequence are, in a sense, limited only to what you can envision the character doing. A couple examples that come to mind:
</font>

• A character that spent a couple of terms as a political advisor to an orginized crime boss could very easily take levels of academic while in a rogue term.</font>
• A journalist who covers the less pleasant segments of society could well be explained as someone who has lived the rogue term but could easily explain a level or two as an academic because that is how they approached what they experienced.</font>
• A con man who likes targeting the rich and educated may well opt for a couple levels of academic to better build his schemes or simply from hanging out with those type of people.</font>

And it's not like you're barred from getting a lot of skills/feats if you don't multiclass. There are only a couple of skills/feats that a Rogue can't get without multiclassing into Academic, for example. OK, he has to cross-class to get some skills, but that's not struck me as a major problem so far.

I know the argument is to say that you're working in academia for a bit and branching out, but you're basically only doing that to get access to the unique class skills really - otherwise you can just get most skills with the points you get from levelling up as a rogue, can't you?

Evidently I'm still missing some point somewhere, aren't I... :/

Sure, if all you are after is the most effecient character it might make sense not to change classes unless you need access to something, but there is also a roleplaying aspect. If my character concept says that he worked as a rogue, but in a way that would be more appropriately represented by the academic class, I'll take the academic class.

In the case of your Scout, what I might have done would be to take my levels as Academic while in college and then scout while actively serving with the scouts. Once the character left the scouts and returned to academia any levels he gained I would likely take as academic depending on how 'sedate' a member of academia he becomes.

Also, don't forget that (unless it has been changed in T20) when you are spending a given level's skill points the cross-class skills are based on the class that you are spending from. For example, skill A is a class skill for Academic and skill B is a class skill for Rogue. If you are a Academic/Rogue but just leveled up as a Rogue any points spent on skill A will count as .5 ranks each beacuse it is a cross-class skill for Rogues.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

I think I've got it now.

Basically, the prior history tells you how much XP you got, but doesn't tell you anything about what to spend the XP *on*. Instead, you can spend that XP on whatever classes you like (so long as you're eligible).

Does that sound about right?

 

[Psion]

Originally posted by Evil Dr Ganymede:
Basically, the prior history tells you how much XP you got, but doesn't tell you anything about what to spend the XP *on*. Instead, you can spend that XP on whatever classes you like (so long as you're eligible).

Does that sound about right?

Yup, with the caveat that your classes might tell you where you can spend your time.

 

[EvilDrGanymede]

Yay! *verily weeps with joy!* I've got it at last!!!

My thanks to everyone for their help here