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Privacy

For what it may be worth, monitoring is not all bad. We install cameras to monitor parking lots and crime goes down and people 'feel' safer (same for public buildings). There is no great outcry about this invasion of personal privacy, because it is perceived as a good thing.
A lot of people grew up with constant (and very abused) surveillance by the KGB, and they rarely speak of it being either safe or being used to it...I'm not sure how secure a society under a truly effective means of monitoring would be.
I heard last Saturday that England has 4.2 million cameras...

Population of England - 50,431,700 (mid 2005)
1 camera per 12 people!

Area - 130,281 sq km
32 cameras per sq km!

Of course, that must be unevenly distributed..how many cameras do you need to guard Sherwood Forest?

England is a pretty sensible and polite society, so i can't understand their desire to surrender their privacy so easily. What sort of nightmare would Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia have been with that sort of surveillance?
 
I see on TV now they have ads for cell phones that cheerily depict your exact location to all your freinds.
This is not a "good thing." It's only been a year or so since some guy got prosecuted for duct-taping a GPS enabled cell phone to the bottom of his ex-girlfriends car and following her around. All he had to do was call the phone company and report the phone stolen and they gave him access to track the phone. The police have to sign a waiver to track you. Seems like the criminals are getting more use from the Federally Mandated GPS system than the authorities are. I wonder when the increase in stalking will start once that friend-tracking thing goes into place.
 
Originally posted by The Traveller Formerly Known As...:
It's only been a year or so since some guy got prosecuted for duct-taping a GPS enabled cell phone to the bottom of his ex-girlfriends car and following her around. All he had to do was call the phone company and report the phone stolen and they gave him access to track the phone.
That gets my vote for creepiest use of off-the-shelf technology...
 
Originally posted by Andrew Boulton:
The cameras are in public areas, so privacy isn't affected.
I beg to differ. They can watch me on my balconey. They can look through my windows. In fact, some creep who worked in a CCTV centre was prosecuted for peeping tommery, looking into the bathroom of some poor girl.

If you live in city centre Manchester just about the only place you can escape CCTV is in a windowless room.

And now they're going to shout at us, too. In the voices of children!
 
Yes it probably is. However, it is still completely bonkers.

The UK has 20% of all the worlds CCTV cameras. Tell that isn't utterly insane?
 
I can't remember if I read that in the Guardian or saw it on the BBC/C4 news.

It was a reputable source, though unfortunately I can't back it up with links.
 
Political or not - this has gaming implications out the kazoo. As TL goes up the ability of the government to monitor goes up...
 
The central premise as I see it in Brin's book is that 'the watched become the watchers'... he advocates a society wherein the means of surveillance are themselves made public, so that everyone watches everyone all the time, and there is no way to surreptitiously abuse it. I find that a bit implausible, but there's a lot of strength to the concept of publicizing and distributing the control and power over surveillance technology.

Basically, I see individual privacy in high/sustainable/'enlightened' TL / GOV / LL worlds as being similar to Brin but based on more than the mutualization of access to the technology - rather, I envision a concept of privacy as the public's most fundamental resource. I was part of a group that wrote a paper last year on the use of RFID tracking technology in healthcare, and I focused on the privacy aspects. Thinking about it in a futuristic projection gave me a bit of insight during the process so I'm glad to share a bit of it here.

Essentially, the 'public commons' is the original middle ages concept of a 'shared' space (like public parks, grazing lands, etc.) and is the reason we have a concept of 'environmental protection', for example. Privacy can be understood in that context: there's a maximum capacity for the system to be impacted beyond which all benefit is lost - and the use of that resource is best administered by representatives of the public. Privacy in a sufficiently advanced society where technology is in balance with personal freedoms would be similar, to me - in a 'future world', each of us would 'opt in' to be surveilled to some degree based on our personal comfort, and in so doing we would take responsbility for maintaining the ongoing integrity of the data and know that those who use the data will be required to follow the requirements we select for its reuse or mining.

Worst-case examples include the kinds of rampant identity theft already underway, to say nothing of abuses of locational privacy and patterning. This is where the technology is used to monitor an individual's behavior and/or possessions. Just a few more - using advanced tech, thieves can now scan people leaving pharmacies for controlled medications. Items can be stolen by swapping tags. Patient identities can be swapped, or medical histories confused, by simple modification of tags or data. Individuals can be tracked, stalked and exploited by this technology in all sorts of societies, not just our own - like for example the fairly well-known recent example of a repressive society (not sure which, but I can find the link in my notes) in which an RFID tagged girl went out to see a movie without her father's permission and was killed in punishment). Legislation permitting the tagging of inmates (and legislation barring the practice) is in place or working its' way thru the state legislatures of a number of U.S. states. The technology is already being used in this way. And of course, all the data gathered in the past can be used to deny future access to services to individuals who may have spent time in rehabilitative therapy, in contact with marked individuals, etc... on and on.

But if, like with environmental law, there is a shared cost of maintenance of privacy (including regulations and fines) as well as payments to access the individually-approved and managed data points, the common, universal right of personal privacy can be supported. That's how I envision a society that balances technological progress with the maintenance of human dignity.
 
Originally posted by mickazoid:
The central premise as I see it in Brin's book is that 'the watched become the watchers'... he advocates a society wherein the means of surveillance are themselves made public, so that everyone watches everyone all the time, and there is no way to surreptitiously abuse it. I find that a bit implausible, but there's a lot of strength to the concept of publicizing and distributing the control and power over surveillance technology.
Whereas I see parallels already. First with the widespread use of handycams which captured a lot of abuse of power and such and made some headlines, and as amateur news hounds. More recently with video capture phones in everyone's hand and the ability to share it on the web in minutes. It's not too far from here and now to be able to imagine a world full of live streaming video from a billion people sporting the next generation wearable wi-fi enabled video cameras. I won't make a prediction as to when because they are always off in some major way, but I think it's coming, sooner than later...
 
The idea that a subset of people would 'opt in' to videotape and be videotaped in this way is certainly where the technology is going.

In that instance, there's no real loss of privacy, per se - since it's taking place in public. That's the same justification for the public surveillance already in place in cities like London and Manhattan.

It's not until the cameras are sold that can see thru walls that you'll see the beginnings of effective limits on such tech.
 
"It's not until the cameras are sold that can see thru walls that you'll see the beginnings of effective limits on such tech."


Like the IR systems currently beginning to be used by Special Ops teams in real life?

No, they are not quite as good as shown in movies & tv shows, but they do appear to be pretty good from the "look at new tech" shows that have shown the real things in actual use.
 
Exactly - except those are used by powers of state (cops, military, etc.). It's certainly a privacy concern, but a different privacy concern than when individual citizens have access to that technology.
 
And then on the other hand we have all those purient 'cop chase' & 'criminals in action' TV shows featuring CCTV film. I can't say I think well of that sort of footage being used for entertainment.

Ravs
 
Originally posted by mickazoid:
The central premise as I see it in Brin's book is that 'the watched become the watchers'... he advocates a society wherein the means of surveillance are themselves made public, so that everyone watches everyone all the time, and there is no way to surreptitiously abuse it. I find that a bit implausible, but there's a lot of strength to the concept of publicizing and distributing the control and power over surveillance technology...
Thanks for the summary, and for your own (snipped) take on it. I just want to add a couple of things. Basically Brin's rationale behind aiming for the transparent society is that the rich and powerful will always be able to beat any of our privacy measures if they consider it important enough; the very best we can hope for is equality. In his own words (private communication):

Originally posted by David Brin:
Radical transparency has its price. It's not my ideal. But it beats pyramidal-secretice authority hierarchies. Also could be a fun play environment, in which ANY sneaky conversation the players pursue could suddenly be commented on by some teenager who was lurk-voyeuring from some nearby bug on the wall. No Big Brother but a bizzillion busybodies...

In fact, I do NOT know for sure that my prescription will work. Only that it uses tools that have already mostly worked... depending on accountability and not secrecy.
John
 
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