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MGT Only: Psionics Training instead of Background Skills?

A limited Psionic Training Course instead of Background Skills?

  • Yes! It's a great idea!

    Votes: 18 47.4%
  • No! Not at all!

    Votes: 13 34.2%
  • No, but I'll post and explain how I'd do it different.

    Votes: 7 18.4%

  • Total voters
    38

Spinward Scout

SOC-14 5K
Baron
Would you have your character take a limited Psionics Training Course instead of Background Skills during Character Generation?

This is an idea I've been playing around with that I thought I'd ask everyone's opinion about.

This would be like a Psionic parent or family member or close friend of the family seeing some potential in your character and training them when they were still a kid.

It would only be open to Characters with Intelligence of 10+, or optionally Social Standing of 10+ (although I'm not sure about that one). There is no cost to the character. It would be limited to one Psionic Talent only. The first Talent successfully rolled on the Talent chart on page 152 in the Core Rulebook (but keep track of any that failed the roll). At the end of the limited Course, that Talent would be at Skill-1 (instead of the normal Skill-0 for Background Skills).

If the character then ever runs across a full Psionic Institute, they would still have the option to get fully trained - but have to pay the total price as any other character would. Including the price for testing the character's Psionic Strength, if only to assess that it is correct (maybe with an option to add a point or two). The character couldn't get any of the Talents that failed the roll during Character Generation. And the character would never have an option to take a Term of a Career as a Psion.

What do you think?
(If you read the post, please vote.)
 
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The whole treatment of Psionics in Traveller is largely handled in a manner incompatible with the rest of the rules in the game.
It has always felt like, and continues to feel like, a bad fitting jacket slung over the rest of the rules.
It really needs a complete rewrite and rethinking from a game mechanics standpoint.

That said, starting with a single Talent at skill-1 is hardly something that will break the game, so have at it if it makes you happy.
The only suggestion for determining who gets the Psi cookie, is to stick it on the career events table or as a hard as heck pre-enlistment roll so that the opportunity is available to everyone (rather than a munchkin bonus roll).
Otherwise, characters with high SOC should probably have access to pre-enlistment munchkin genetic engineering and characters with high EDU should have access to TL appropriate skill mods (RNA learning, skill Chips, neural interface, etc.).
 
No for me, but feel free to do as you wish if your group will enjoy it.

For me, I see it as a bit of a power/munchkin ploy. Similiar to when folks want to start their rogue or drifter careers early. "But my character was homeless and had to live off the mean streets."

Yes, I can acknowledge that there are realistic exceptions but my simple and often used debating point is time spent doing one thing is time not doing something else.

I like that you have addressed this. You replace background skills with the psionic training.

Most my games are pickup games online so it's best to not have a bunch of house rules.

That said, I can still acknowledge that this might be something you and others would like and can offer options to consider.

1) I'm just a spoon bender.
Such a non professionally trained psion is not even a padawan. Perhaps instead of learning all the abilities under a talent, they only have access a limited number of "less powerful" ones.

2) That's not how my momma taught me.
With minimal, non professional and perhaps even improper training, someone may have bad habits and could possibly get a negative penalty to learning when they do find an institute.

3) Use it or lose it.
In the typical 3I setting, the use of psionics is a no no. It could be that an improperly, insufficiently trained psi will lose their limited abilities over time as they complete "traditional" careers.

4) Burnt at the stake.
An improperly, insufficiently trained psi who tries to practice their limited abilities has a chance of getting caught as they progress in "traditional" careers.

5) I sense power in you.
As they progress in "traditional" careers, an improperly, insufficiently trained psi who tries to practice their limited abilities has a chance of being noticed by underground psions and directed to an institute.

6) What a wimp.
An improperly, insufficiently trained psi may not have access to their full psionic strength.

Book 4 Psion does have some info on training via a Psionic Mentor instead of Institute training and even Personal Experimentation/Development.
 
A long while ago I worked on some supplemental rules for psionics for GT. In my own opinion I had some useful ideas, but I never finished it. Here is what I came up (except for the GT rules). Judge for yourself:

Psionics in the 3rd Imperium​
It has been more than 300 years since a failed experiment in guiding the Imperium by media manipulation caused a wave of anti-psionic hatred to sweep through the Imperium. The experiment was immediately terminated, but still the fear and hatred persist, despite the lack of further encouragement.

The reason for this is that the present situation is self-sustaining. There have always been those who feared and distrusted psionics, and since the suppressions there are no counterbalancing voices to be heard. Even in the days when psionic powers were legal, there was always a temptation to misuse them and people ready to seize on and decry such misuse. Nowadays, with the forces of order unable to use psionic powers to guard against abuse and adepts unable to use their powers for legitimate purposes, the temptation is much, much stronger. If you criminalize psionic powers, only criminals will use psionic powers. Thus all that the public hears about psionics is when yet another criminal has been caught abusing his powers.

Recruitment
Psionic organizations and anyone who wish to exploit psionic adepts face one great problem: how to locate potential recruits.

At the onset of puberty, individuals with latent psionic power will often manifest spontaneous flashes of psionic activity. Sudden insights into other peoples’ thoughts, small items moving themselves, temperature shifts, etc. Most manifestations are minor and usually dismissed by both the psionic himself and his surroundings. But someone who knows what to look out for and who is on the lookout for them may spot these symptoms and realize that the subject in question is a latent psionic. Unless encouraged, the symptoms tend to disappear after a few months. A few latent psionics realize that something odd is going on and start to experiment. (This will count as training for the purposes of preventing deterioration of latent power and will begin to develop effective power.) Mostly they are found out along the way and dealt with by the discoverer (either turned over to the authorities, exploited, or protected), but a very small percentage manages to remain undetected and to develop their powers on their own. Such self-training is the only way a latent psionic can develop without outside help.

A full test of psionic powers takes two weeks at a fully-equipped psionic laboratory, but there is a quick test that can be camouflaged as a physical scan of some kind. It is not completely reliable, but it does catch about 80% of all people with latent powers above five and effective powers of any magnitude. In addition about 5% of those who don’t have any powers at all will give a false positive result.

The Teachers
While psionic potential is a matter of genes, the realization of such potential requires training. In CT the only source of training was a Psionic Institute, but there are other sources available. A GM could regard the term ‘Psionic Institute’ as a catch-all for a wide variety of different organizations and individuals.

To determine the nature of a trained psionic’s teacher, select from the table below or roll 1d twice and take the lowest result:

1 Non-psionic criminal
2 Psionic criminal
3 Agency
4 Patron
5 Support network
6 Mentor

Non-psionic criminal: Criminal gang leaders are always on the look-out for psionic henchmen because psionics are useful in many criminal endeavors. Unfortunately, most gang leaders fear and distrust psionics almost as much as they desire the unique assistance they can get from them. Consequently they try to exercise tight control over their psionic helpers, leading them a miserable life. A psionic who has a past with a criminal gang will often have either a criminal record (necessitating a false identity) or an enemy (the former gang) hunting him, or both.

Psionic criminal: Because of the fear and distrust with which psionics are regarded by most criminals, they rarely rise to lead their own gang. The rare exceptions make excellent bosses for other psionics, because they can read their henchmen’s thoughts and know that they are trustworthy. A well-led psionic criminal gang is a fearsome thing, but its very success tends to attract attention, leading to eventual exposure and destruction and the dispersion of those gang members lucky enough to escape the dragnet.

Agency: Military organizations don’t publicize it, but practically all of them run the quick psionics test when examining prospective recruits. Psionics are barred by Imperial edict from serving in any military in the Imperium, be it planetary, subsector, or regular. Those who register on the psionics test are usually refused for some reason other than the true one. But their names are secretly passed on to one intelligence service or another (usually one affiliated with the recruiting military service). And a few months later they are approached discreetly with a recruitment offer they had better not refuse. In some cases they are recruited and allowed to complete their military training, then transferred to a unit that isn’t what it appears to be.

Most psionic agents are not detected until after their 18th birthday. Their latent psionic powers will therefore have gone down by one.

Psionic agents are treated relatively well by their patron agencies, but are subject to extra surveillance because they are vulnerable to blackmail and, well, because non-psionics tend to distrust them. They seldom rise to high rank, remaining field agents throughout their careers. After serving 20 years without messing up, they are allowed to retire. They get a fake service record and are left to their own devices – though always subject to being pressured into taking on another mission, if someone in the agency feels a pressing need for help.

Their veteran status serves ex-agents as a mantle of protection. If the local authorities begin to suspect that they may be psionics, the fact that they are former “team players” will often make the authorities overlook it – as long as they keep their heads down, their noses clean, and don’t make waves. [Rewrite]

Former agents sometimes move elsewhere and assume new identities, especially if they decide to have children, since children of ex-agents are routinely tested by their former agency and forced to join if they turn out to have useful psionic abilities.

Patron: Many members of the upper class, from Imperial and local nobles to millionaire commoners, want psionic minions and they’re not about to let a silly law stand in the way of their wishes. A rich patron can afford to pay “talent scouts” to track down and hire psionics and to pay for their training, and can protect them against official scrutiny – as long as the psionics serve their patrons faithfully.

Support network: In many cases neither the psionic strength nor the talents of a psionic show any correlation to those of his parents. The offspring of two strong telepaths could have any strength between 2 and 12 and any talents. There’s just no telling (Ordinary CT characters all fall into this category). But there are some families where psionic talents run strong. Children in such psionic families consistently have high power scores (CT referees who wish to introduce such families into their campaigns can simulate this by having special die rolls for psionic powers, such as “1d+6” or “2d, reroll all 1s and 2s” or “2d+3, capped at 12” associated with each family; different families may have different die rolls). There are even rumors of families where scores above 12 occur on rare occasions. In these psionic families the grandparents often taught the parents who, in turn, will teach their children. In time, if they remain undetected, such families grow large and may come into contact with other psionic families, forming a secret community, referred to obliquely as ‘The Family’, ‘The Clan’, ‘The Kindred’, ‘The Community’, etc.

Psionics from such a background will tend to have Ally and/or Dependents (spouse and children), Patron or Ally Group (the family), Duty and Sense of Duty (to the family), and Secret.

Mentor: A mentor is a lonely trained psionic who discovers a youngster with a latent talent and attempts to alleviate his loneliness by mentoring this youth. Someone who was trained by a mentor may have him as patron or ally, or he may have lost all contact with the mentor.​
Note: Anyone doing legitimate Traveller work, up to and including work for pay, is welcome to use any and all ideas presented in this post.


Hans
 
I am not a fan of psionics to any great degree, in the way that the various forms of Traveller use it. I do not allow for it in My Traveller Universe, except in limited forms, not at all like Traveller.
 
Based on the very limited number of positive replies, it would appear that either Psionics does not play a major role in most games, or people simply do not have strong feelings about it.

There is quite a bit of science fiction that uses psionics, with a lot available through Project Gutenberg and also the Free Speculation Fiction online site. John Berryman wrote several short stories for Analog about psis set in the US, with some interesting variations of the standard Traveller talents. Those can be found on Project Gutenberg. James Schmitz wrote quite a bit about psis, with Telzey Amberton being the main character in several short stories and novels, the Howl talent mention in the Psionics article in JTAS Number 5 comes straight from his short story Glory Day, and his extremely potent psis in the Agent of Vega collection of short stories. Not sure how you would treat the talents in the Witches of Karres novel, nor the "Vatch" and "Klatha" energy, but those would be interesting to play with. Schmitz's Empire in the Karres book seems to be fairly anti-psi. The "Sheewash Drive" would be quite interesting to add as a wild talent in Traveller.

I lean more to Andre Norton when it comes to Psi talent, with it being rare and not your typical Traveller type. You have the human-animal link in the Beastmaster series, also Catseye, and the falcon-Falconer link in the Witch World series. Travis Fox's "time guesser" ability in Galactic Derelict has some interesting possibilities, but unfortunately she did not follow up on that idea. It is hard to say about the Wyverns and Shann Lantee in Storm Over Warlock, not sure if you would call that Psi or not. Same with the Witch World book series.

Overall, in My Traveller Universe, psis are much more the "wild talent" type, not the standard Traveller version, and I am giving some thought to adding something akin to the Witches of Karres version as well. If nothing else, the "Vatch" can be the thing that goes bump in jump space, with the jump catching its attention.
 
Some of us just wanted less frequent users to have a chance before we spoke up.

I don't see a problem with allowing one or two background 0-levels going away to be trained to the level 0 in the first talent successfully rolled for, assuming the game's not OTU. (It's not like Zhodani lose any levels for having testing accomplished. )
 
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Just one side effect I'm not sure you have thought about: if a player is trained (even at level 0 in a single discipline) in psionics at 18 years or earlier (as background skills represent), should he/she be able to train after CharGen (or as event in CharGen), his/her psi will not have degraded as usual, so, if training occurs after 6 terms of CharGen, Psi will be the initial 2d6, not 2d6-6 (for terms).

That may be relevant or not depending on training occuring latter or not, and may be seen as a good or bad thing, not judging, just pointing at this side effect.
 
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Could you treat psionics a little like guns? It's okay for someone to have them if the authorities have more of them? They evoke fear and concern in some locations, in others they're considered cool and a right for everyone to be tested and trained if they can. On some worlds they're widespread and accepted, on others restricted from or constrained regarding civil use?
 
Certainly Ulsyus. If fact the "default" setting produced by MM and those he endorses does such. Some worlds in areas between the large polities having variation. The different races treating psionics differently.
 
Would you have your character take a limited Psionics Training Course instead of Background Skills during Character Generation?

It would only be open to Characters with Intelligence of 10+, or optionally Social Standing of 10+ (although I'm not sure about that one). There is no cost to the character. It would be limited to one Psionic Talent only. The first Talent successfully rolled on the Talent chart on page 152 in the Core Rulebook (but keep track of any that failed the roll). At the end of the limited Course, that Talent would be at Skill-1 (instead of the normal Skill-0 for Background Skills).

What do you think?

I don't associate Int or Soc with Psionics, but if someone wants to play a Psionic, I require them to put at least an 8 into the Psionic score, this tends to reduce a score in at least one other area.

I haven't used wild talents, but required them to find training, I quite like the idea of giving a skill at 0 in a psionic skill instead of a background skill though.

Kind Regards

David
 
I haven't gotten around to doing it properly but personally I like the idea of psionics being a significant deal but much more integrated into the universe.

My thinking is

1) I'd like psionics to be connected somehow to the "science" of jump and jump space even to the extent that a character's level of sensitivity might be innate but
- psionic ability triggers in jump space for sensitive characters
- or being born in jump space
- or mother being pregnant in jumpspace
- or spending a lot of time in jump space
- or spending a lot of time in jump space in particular regions of space
- or messing with gravitic engines a lot
so sensitivity might run in families but in itself that isn't enough.

2) psionics to be more tree-like with say psionics-1 to psionics-5 as the base psionic levels and each level having a list of possible trained abilities

2a) the lower level abilities limited to things like like faster reactions or a bonus to navigator skill or modifying NPC reaction rolls etc

2b) the high powered abilities like teleport might take a psionics-5 level of ability which would be very rare

2c) psionics-1 could be trained to have 1 x level one ability, psionics-2 could be trained to have 1 x level two ability and 2 x level one abilities, psionics-3 etc

3) psionics would be built into the standard char gen so in a term characters could potentially pick up psionics on one of their skill rolls (assume they developed it in jump space) and once they had that they could choose to roll on the psionics table once per term instead of a skill roll.

4) there could also be wild psi as a career option like drifter who would have a much better chance of getting higher levels of psi ability in their char gen although perhaps with some negative consequences built in e.g. for each level of psionics above skill-0 they also roll on a mental quirk table.

#

Once that is decided then it needs to be integrated into the Imperium's attitude towards psionics which as it is both a threat and a potentially very powerful tool could be very schizophrenic imo.

In this context I could imagine the Psionics Institute being both deliberately shady and a front org for the Imperium designed to get psis to reveal themselves. Someone with minor abilities might just go on a watch database but stable mid powered and above psis might be conscripted to an Imperial agency and wild ones or those that refused locked away. Wild psis with telepathic ability might realize the PI was a trap and avoid it.

Stable psis with telepathy who avoid the PI to avoid detection might be able to spot people with more psionic ability than training. They might have to move around a lot.

A lot of nobles could have a psi retainer.

#

TL;DR

Personally I want psionics to be as much about jump space and gravitics as genetics so I wouldn't have youthful psionic abilities at all except for the wild psi career. Characters would get psionic ability (or not) in char gen with a specific ability at a basic level improvable with training.

e.g. character gets psionic-1 in char gen and rolls sixth sense as the specific ability, untrained sixth-sense-0 might give an 8+ roll to get a bonus to any ambush check but once trained to sixth-sense-1 the bonus applies all the time without needing the 8+ roll.
 
I handle psionics by making it the province of cults and fringe organizations and shadowy government types, and there is no one group that can train up in all disciplines, one or maybe two at the most. No psionic institutes or Jedi/Sith.

Psionic as skill is appealing, but the system would need a serious revamp. Also likely needs a UPP-type attribute, or derived from existing ones (sum DEX, END and INT/3 as one thought).

Could be a subgame within the character dev process- character gets training, then can apply a mod to an event like survival or promotion indicating use of their powers, each time they do they get an increased chance of being caught.
 
One thing that needs to be pointed out: Psionic testing and training to lvl 0 in whatever skills you roll, only takes 4 or so months IIRC, while the 3 + EDU lvl 0 background skills represent what you have learned during the course of your childhood schooling, that takes about 12 years to learn.

So I am gonna have to say, no, it's not a fair trade. I do allow psionic testing and training as a background that you can pick up during character generation. It's an event.

If you have it happen during childhood, Just do like the Zho's do...you just allow testing and training to be a part o\ childhood. Now, getting a skill beyond lvl 0 DOES require the spending of a skill level that could have been spent elsewhere.

That's my .02 CRimps.
Cryton
 
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