Questions on the Evolution of Miniatures...

[kinnerc]

So, decades ago and light years away (the first, literally; the second, well, sometimes it feels that way!) back in the 1980s miniatures, in my experience, had two formats: 25mm and 15mm. D&D miniatures were 25mm and Traveller miniatures were 15mm. I really didn't understand why there was this difference. I theorized that it had something to do with the scale of the published deck plans back then.

Fast forward ~40 years (see what happens when you don't tune your jump drive and have to travel relavistically? Don't let this happen to you, kids!) and I look at miniatures here and see that they're at 28mm scale.

Why is this? Why the change?

Many thanks as I try to get caught up after all this time!

 

[Enoki]

The shift to resin from lead and the decrease in price of resin compounds.

 

[kinnerc]

The shift to resin from lead and the decrease in price of resin compounds.

I honestly don't have a lot of experience with 3d printers. I'm assuming the larger figure size is due to the "lower resolution" of the resin?

 

[Enoki]

I honestly don't have a lot of experience with 3d printers. I'm assuming the larger figure size is due to the "lower resolution" of the resin?

The figures are cast in a mold centrifugally using a 2-part epoxy resin. I suppose you can 3D print them, but the cleanup work afterwards would probably make it not worth it and the rate of production would be low.

That's the basic idea for non-mass production.

 

[GypsyComet]

Even back in the early 80s, scale inflation was already underway, Some sculptors wanted more space to apply their desired level of detail, or even get good results. Not everyone can be Tom Meier (the chief sculptor at Ral Partha back in the day). Early Grenadier was already bulkier than early Ral Partha, while historical lines were often smaller. Some of this likely came from disagreement about the definition of scale. Even now, you will find people on both sides of the core argument: 25mm to top of head, or 25mm to the eyes? Repeat for 15mm, 10mm, 12mm, 6mm, and every other "scale" someone decided to try dominating the market in.

A mid-80s proponent of scale creep was Citadel (now and long since a part of Games Workshop), and their stated scale crept from 25mm to 28mm, then to 32mm. The companies that want to be like them follow that creep. Citadel is known for its love of high density and deep-cutting details, and a larger mini makes that style easier to practice.

But many other companies also crept upwards in scale. Relevant to this forum, the Citadel (yep)/RAFM line of "15mm" Traveller miniatures is notably bulkier than the Martian Metals line, and significantly less bulky than the Laserburn line. The modern 15mm lines vary from barely larger than 12mm to pushing 20mm.

 

[Condottiere]

 

[Enoki]

Even back in the early 80s, scale inflation was already underway, Some sculptors wanted more space to apply their desired level of detail, or even get good results. Not everyone can be Tom Meier (the chief sculptor at Ral Partha back in the day). Early Grenadier was already bulkier than early Ral Partha, while historical lines were often smaller. Some of this likely came from disagreement about the definition of scale. Even now, you will find people on both sides of the core argument: 25mm to top of head, or 25mm to the eyes? Repeat for 15mm, 10mm, 12mm, 6mm, and every other "scale" someone decided to try dominating the market in.

A mid-80s proponent of scale creep was Citadel (now and long since a part of Games Workshop), and their stated scale crept from 25mm to 28mm, then to 32mm. The companies that want to be like them follow that creep. Citadel is known for its love of high density and deep-cutting details, and a larger mini makes that style easier to practice.

But many other companies also crept upwards in scale. Relevant to this forum, the Citadel (yep)/RAFM line of "15mm" Traveller miniatures is notably bulkier than the Martian Metals line, and significantly less bulky than the Laserburn line. The modern 15mm lines vary from barely larger than 12mm to pushing 20mm.

I personally deal more in 54mm (1/35th) since the figures start at about $1 to $2 apiece.

 

[TamsinP]

I honestly don't have a lot of experience with 3d printers. I'm assuming the larger figure size is due to the "lower resolution" of the resin?

It's not to do with the resolution of the resin; it's because most people coming into the hobby prefer (or are used to) larger figures, so that is what people design for. With 3D printing they are easily scaled down, although you need to add your own supports to unsupported versions of the sculpts rather than using the pre-supported figures as the supports don't scale down well.

 

[Vargr Breath]

RAFM and Laserburn are more the true 15mm, while most other are around 18mm but they all work well together. The RAFM Vargr are more the right size for 15mm, but the Aslan are too short.

 

[GypsyComet]

... and Traveller miniatures were 15mm. I really didn't understand why there was this difference. I theorized that it had something to do with the scale of the published deck plans back then.

With regards to Traveller it's a chicken and egg thing. Several of the guys were historical minis fans, a scene dominated by 15mm at the time. In addition, they were writing a game with space ships and *gun fights*. A smaller scale miniature assumption allows a ship's interior to take up a lot less room on a table, and also means that at least pistol ranges can be represented on a game table without too much mind's eye theater.

The Citadel/RAFM line came along *very* early; you'll find ads and mentions in JTAS if you look. The Laserburn line was also very early, though not directly related to Traveller that I know of. The Laserburn line is something of a mad uncle to what would become Warhammer 40k, and I suspect is why that game makes more sense as a 15mm game even now, 40 years, ten editions, and a bazillion 28mm+ miniatures later...