Really Big Hexes

[tbeard1999]

I'm reworking my Commonwealth campaign and have decided to confront a problem I've long had with Traveller -- the jump drive. Because ships are effectively limited to 1 week jumps, usually between systems with gas giants, long range exploration is pretty much out. In addition, there are few opportunities for “strange new worlds” – each world may only have a few systems within jump range and those can be expected to be explored pretty quickly.

To address this, I am radically revising jump drives. Basically, a star map hex now represents a 20 parsec cube (8000 cubic parsecs). Systems identified on the map are mapped and settled, but each hex has an average of 3000 systems, most of which are not explored. Obviously, habitable worlds are far less common than in the official Traveller universe.

Jump-1 will allow a jump of up to 20 parsecs, Jump-2 will allow a jump of up to 40 parsecs, etc. Each jump consumes the same amount of fuel and takes a week (so a 1 parsec jump is no faster than a 20 parsec jump).

This change has several effects, all of which are dramatically desirable, IMHO:

1. Every hex has thousands of system, so a ship can always refuel in an empty hex. This makes “five year missions” plausible.

2. Each hex -- even those in relatively civilized areas -- may have hundreds or even thousands of unexplored systems. Suddenly, “strange new worlds” become possible.

3. Frontier areas become much more porous. Things like piracy become practical, since thousands of potential pirate bases can be found within 1 jump.

4. Military strategy changes dramatically. Front lines are now far more porous; an enemy fleet can strike far deeper into rear areas than before (though it will still take a very long time to do so).

Comments?

 

[Gadrin]

Bye-Bye X-boat routes.


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[aramis]

With that kind of stellar density, I'd be expecting (even with "untennable world becomes X-???000-0") MANY inhabited systems per hex... as given the recent estimates of at least 1 in 10 main sequence stars having rocky planets, and probably no less than 1 in 10 of those having something worthwhile to extract commercially, and EDG's estimate of about one star per cubic parsec, that's 80 worlds per hex with reasons for people to be there.

I suspect it's just too big a jump... make it 5 or so parsecs (125pc³) and you get a more reasonable 1-2 systems per hex, but still have a reasonable likelyhood of being able to find a supply of fuel in every hex.

 

[tbeard1999]

With that kind of stellar density, I'd be expecting (even with "untennable world becomes X-???000-0") MANY inhabited systems per hex... as given the recent estimates of at least 1 in 10 main sequence stars having rocky planets, and probably no less than 1 in 10 of those having something worthwhile to extract commercially, and EDG's estimate of about one star per cubic parsec, that's 80 worlds per hex with reasons for people to be there.

I suspect it's just too big a jump... make it 5 or so parsecs (125pc³) and you get a more reasonable 1-2 systems per hex, but still have a reasonable likelyhood of being able to find a supply of fuel in every hex.

I'm not worried about scientific accuracy (especially since there's no actual evidence to support any particular frequency of habitable systems). I am interested in trying to enable long range missions, "strange new worlds", lost colonies, etc., in CT. This seems a viable way to do it, although reasonable minds could differ on the optimum hex size.

Bye-Bye X-boat routes.

Not necessarily. X-Boats will still need to service important systems, so I'd expect that their routes would still go through major systems.

 

[Supplement Four]

I'm not worried about scientific accuracy (especially since there's no actual evidence to support any particular frequency of habitable systems).

TBeard, don't forget that the vast majority of inhabited worlds in Traveller are not also "habitable" worlds. That is...most inhabited worlds in Traveller are worlds that cannot sustain human life.

In addition, most worlds in Traveller are colonized and are not the mother world to native species.

Thus, it is likely, given Traveller's (and maybe not your Commonwealth campaign) typical universe, that many worlds inside hexes that big will have several colonized systems.

OTOH, your Commonwealth campaign is your own sandbox. Maybe the govts in your campaign didn't go hogwild in a Rule of Man like colonization effort.

 

[tjoneslo]

I'm reworking my Commonwealth campaign and have decided to confront a problem I've long had with Traveller -- the jump drive. Because ships are effectively limited to 1 week jumps, usually between systems with gas giants, long range exploration is pretty much out. In addition, there are few opportunities for “strange new worlds” – each world may only have a few systems within jump range and those can be expected to be explored pretty quickly.

If you have a subscription to JTAS, I highly recommend Across the Galaxy by Allan E. Johnson. This article goes even further and speculates on a kiloparsec drive.

So if you are thinking that a few stars per hex is a good idea, why not thousands?

 

[Border Reiver]

Or have a search of the threads in the Moot Spire where I postulated drives beyond jump 6 including (at its greatest range) a jump of 46,656 parsecs.

This is technology that will get you to Andromeda in six months (not taking into account how you refuel in intergalactic space).

It was a pretty good discussion that was unfortunately damaged by the 2006 server change that wiped about 3 weeks of posts.

 

[Icosahedron]

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve, tbeard. Even under Traveller canon, you can locate Gas Giants from neighbouring hexes, and a survey task force with a few scouts and tankers should be able to step out into empty hexes to extend the search for new worlds. GG systems are not that rare. If by some miracle you don't find more than the one GG in that 19 hex area, you can use your tankers to create a deep space refuelling station and add a third hex to your search radius. As for the borders, if anything, I find current Traveller borders TOO leaky.

 

[Gadrin]

I'm not worried about scientific accuracy (especially since there's no actual evidence to support any particular frequency of habitable systems). I am interested in trying to enable long range missions, "strange new worlds", lost colonies, etc., in CT. This seems a viable way to do it, although reasonable minds could differ on the optimum hex size.

I agree with that, I liked the sparseness of worlds & travel in H Beam Piper's Space Viking book.

Traveller's "neighborhoods" of Sectors and Subsectors can get a little
to overcrowded sometimes.

Not necessarily. X-Boats will still need to service important systems, so I'd expect that their routes would still go through major systems.

They'll just be stretched out, unless you're talking about stopping at every planet on the map. It's quite possible that large jump areas will sprout minor jump routes with smaller, cheaper drives, and in effect creating something very similar to the original.


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[tbeard1999]

I'm not sure what problem you're trying to solve, tbeard.

I think I was pretty clear in my post, but I'll try again (see below).

Even under Traveller canon, you can locate Gas Giants from neighbouring hexes, and a survey task force with a few scouts and tankers should be able to step out into empty hexes to extend the search for new worlds. GG systems are not that rare. If by some miracle you don't find more than the one GG in that 19 hex area, you can use your tankers to create a deep space refuelling station and add a third hex to your search radius. As for the borders, if anything, I find current Traveller borders TOO leaky.

My problem is the combination of (a) typical Traveller systems having relatively few systems within a reasonable jump range*; and (b) the fact that ships have extremely limited range (usually one jump with a normal fuel load) . As I said earlier, this means that long term missions are pretty much out of the question and it also means that there's little scope for exploring new systems, rediscovering lost colonies, etc. The fact that tankers can be deployed to extend this range somewhat does not alleviate the problem IMHO. First, it means that extended duration expeditions will be large, expensive affairs. Certainly not single ship operations. Second, it does nothing to address the fact that a typical CT subsector will contain a very modest number of systems.

A Traveller subsector will average 16-20 systems depending on density. This is a very modest number of systems and they will be very quickly explored and settled. There will be few plausible frontiers in a CT campaign in my opinion, and no "lost colonies".

And "leaky" borders are a matter of taste. I happen to like leaky borders because they expand the scope for drama. Enemy surprise attacks, pirate raids, smuggling, etc., become a lot more plausible as borders become more porous. And extremely porous borders allow me to better rationalize my small ship universe -- lots of smaller ships are needed to adequately patrol and defend the realm.

*This problem is exacerbated by a 2 dimensional map. A Traveller system will have an average of 10-15 neighbors within a 3 parsec radius on a 2D map. A system would have 38-56 neighbors within 3 parsecs on a 3D map. 20-30 neighbors within 4 parsecs on a 2D map; 90-133 neighbors within 4 parsecs on a 3D map.

 

[tbeard1999]

If you have a subscription to JTAS, I highly recommend Across the Galaxy by Allan E. Johnson. This article goes even further and speculates on a kiloparsec drive.

So if you are thinking that a few stars per hex is a good idea, why not thousands?

I've just read it and a companion article by Chris Thrash. I need to digest them, but I think that there's some benefit in having *civilized* systems be somewhat spread out. So I'm initially inclined to stay with thousands of stars per hex, but an average of only 1/3 to 1/2 civilized systems per hex.

 

[Icosahedron]

I think I was pretty clear in my post, but I'll try again (see below).

Not trying to flame your idea, just genuinely confused about why you can't GG hop as far as you want to go. Our TUs are probably too diverse for me to make a meaningful contribution to aid your enquiry, so I'll bow out after this.

My problem is the combination of (a) typical Traveller systems having relatively few systems within a reasonable jump range*; and (b) the fact that ships have extremely limited range (usually one jump with a normal fuel load) . As I said earlier, this means that long term missions are pretty much out of the question and it also means that there's little scope for exploring new systems, rediscovering lost colonies, etc. The fact that tankers can be deployed to extend this range somewhat does not alleviate the problem IMHO. First, it means that extended duration expeditions will be large, expensive affairs. Certainly not single ship operations. Second, it does nothing to address the fact that a typical CT subsector will contain a very modest number of systems.

A Traveller subsector will average 16-20 systems depending on density. This is a very modest number of systems and they will be very quickly explored and settled. There will be few plausible frontiers in a CT campaign in my opinion, and no "lost colonies".

Personally, I'd expect 'black sky' explorations to be long and expensive missions, and Star Trek notwithstanding, I'd be less likely to send a single ship into the depths of unexplored space than to send a single land rover into the sahara. It's convoy or nothing for me.

The cost and logistics of such an operation would contribute to limiting expansion, creating frontiers, and potentially 'losing' colonies as budgets expand and contract as exploration, settlement and exploitation lead to repeated boom and bust cycles in different regions of an expanding perimeter.

As you say, questions of leaky borders and system density are a matter of taste.

Since this doesn't seem to be the direction you want to go, I'll leave it at that and just hope my suggestions have been of some use.

 

[tbeard1999]

Not trying to flame your idea, just genuinely confused about why you can't GG hop as far as you want to go. Our TUs are probably too diverse for me to make a meaningful contribution to aid your enquiry, so I'll bow out after this.

Maybe I wasn't as clear as I thought

My objection is not limited to gas giant hopping. That, combined with the fact that there are a very modest number of systems in a typical CT subsector, makes exploration-type campaigns implausible IMHO. With only 16-20 systems, a typical subsector could be easily explored and mapped within a few years. It's hard for me to imagine how *any* subsector could remain isolated and mostly unexplored for very long in CT (especially if you allow jumps into and out of empty hexes).

Personally, I'd expect 'black sky' explorations to be long and expensive missions, and Star Trek notwithstanding, I'd be less likely to send a single ship into the depths of unexplored space than to send a single land rover into the sahara. It's convoy or nothing for me.

I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd submit that it's more dramatically pleasing to have a campaign where individual tramp freighters can find themselves "exploring brave new worlds" (or rediscovering lost colonies, secret pirate bases, etc.). For all the reasons I noted, CT militates against such campaigns being very plausible.

By assuming that each hex contains thousands of systems, you now open the doors for plausible adventures along these lines.

Now, as Supp Four suggests, the standard CT system generation system may need tweaking. If thousands of systems are available per hex, major systems will tend to be very desirable worlds (either in terms of climate, or resources, or both). I'm gonna have to think about that more.

Since this doesn't seem to be the direction you want to go, I'll leave it at that and just hope my suggestions have been of some use.

At the very least, your comments and questions are helping me zero in on the specific objections I have about the way CT handles these things. That will help me conjure up effective solutions.

 

[aramis]

Ty,

it seems your complaints are 4-fold here:
1) it's too easy to get everywhere in a given sector
2) it's too hard to isolate anyone
3) there's not enough to explore
4) there's no ability to generate long term missions

the überhex will solve #3, exacerbate #2 and #1, and result in larger fleets, but not of need slower exploration.

#4 is solved easiest by changing fuel rates. It also helps if fuel is not field refillable... but that's very un-traveller.

 

[Icosahedron]

So my comments might be of some use, at least indirectly? I'll add another, then.

<light beginning to dawn - possibly>
You need all of your action to take place in a single subsector? So that subsector needs very large hexes?

IMTU there are no limits, I can explore as far as ships have the time and money to go. MTU is at least as big as the OTU and is not surrounded by other empires. You can explore all the way to the galactic core if you want, set up colonies there and then not have the money to visit them again for a couple of centuries. There might be a pirate base halfway to the core, too. The unexplored regions are beyond the Imperial borders, and there's a whole galaxy out there. You're simply not going to afford to explore and colonise the whole galaxy, but you can send expeditions to any part of it - in CT. This is why I'm struggling with your objections - I seem to be able to cover the exploration, the pirates, the 'here be dragons' wilderness, the lost colonies, etc that you want to do, but within the normal CT system.

 

[tbeard1999]

This is why I'm struggling with your objections - I seem to be able to cover the exploration, the pirates, the 'here be dragons' wilderness, the lost colonies, etc that you want to do, but within the normal CT system.

I may have left an important factoid out -- I want to be able to transition from well settled systems to the frontier relatively quickly. This rules out mega-settings that take place over entire sectors (and that would take months or years to go from the civilized worlds to the fringe).

And I'm sorry, but the relatively small number of worlds in a subsector (or even a sector) makes it implausible that systems will remain unexplored for long IMHO. Any subsector with a single world with jump technology will be fully explored in a very few years IMHO.

If I'm at CT star X, there simply aren't going to be very many possible destinations for me -- 2-3 if Jump-1, 4-6 if Jump-2, etc.

With Really Big Hexes, there are 21,000 possible destinations within 1 jump-1. Thus, it is plausible that lost colonies, undiscovered worlds, etc., can be very close by. And the fact that a very small percentage of these 18,000 destinations (statistically 1 in 30,000 or so) will have useful planets (other than refueling stops) gives a very plausible reason that most would not be explored.

If you add an additional barrier -- maybe jump routes have to be worked out by trial and error, so that the first jump takes a month rather than a week -- then lost worlds become even more plausible. In that case, I'd allow any ship that has the proper navigational data to get there in a week, which would allow "treasure maps" -- jump routes to a secret world. Better drama IMHO.

Of course, an unanswered question is "how do the currently settled systems get picked out"? Gotta work on that one, but one answer that suggests itself is that the settled systems have particularly easy jump routes. I.e., any ship can jump to them within a week as long as it has the range. That would also explain why marginal worlds get settled when there are literally thousands of alternatives in the same hex. Gotta work on that one.

 

[tbeard1999]

Ty,

it seems your complaints are 4-fold here:
1) it's too easy to get everywhere in a given sector
2) it's too hard to isolate anyone
3) there's not enough to explore
4) there's no ability to generate long term missions

the überhex will solve #3, exacerbate #2 and #1, and result in larger fleets, but not of need slower exploration.

#4 is solved easiest by changing fuel rates. It also helps if fuel is not field refillable... but that's very un-traveller.

Well, I think my complaint is simpler that that. Basically, I want to enable things like lost colonies, strange new worlds, hidden pirate bases, etc., without having to travel months or years from the settled areas of my campaign. I don't really want to redo the fuel system for Traveller for various reasons, nor do I want to change the jump drive into something else.

 

[aramis]

Here's an idea; think it over.

Instead of just rescaling jump, go with a sector map being measured in Jy, and having its hexes (henceforth megahexes) subdivided into y hexes across... you can thus increase the effective size. I'd say, J3 across, so each hex has 7 full hexes, arranged much like TFT megahexes. A "system" hex gets 1d6 systems, within the hex; a no-system megahex gets nothing, except empty space. And for good measure, make deep space jumps harder and mishaps worse on them.

Given a typical megahex, this means a j5 might be able to cross an empty hex, and a J6 can. Makes threading over much harder.

It also creates mains much easier.

If you go with J5, instead, your megahexes are 17 sub hexes; put in 1d10, 2d6, 3d6-2 or 1d12 systems in... and an empty megahex is likely uncrossable without a calibration point.

(TFT megahexes are a roughly hexagonal structure comprised of 7 hexagons. for larger, say dungeon scale, the hex was a 9' center-center megahex, while tactical scale used 3' hexes, arraged to match the megahexes.)

 

[Icosahedron]

I may have left an important factoid out -- I want to be able to transition from well settled systems to the frontier relatively quickly. This rules out mega-settings that take place over entire sectors (and that would take months or years to go from the civilized worlds to the fringe).

Aha. That makes all the difference.

And I'm sorry, but the relatively small number of worlds in a subsector (or even a sector) makes it implausible that systems will remain unexplored for long IMHO. Any subsector with a single world with jump technology will be fully explored in a very few years IMHO.

In the OTU (or YTU?) I agree, but in my sprawling empire whose worlds are progressively less developed and hence less wealthy near the region of rarified population density that forms the 'frontier', the locals may have neither the will nor the finance to explore their neighbours. This is 'Firefly' territory. 'Do we buy a hospital facility, a fusion desalinator plant, or a survey ship?' and from the point of view of central authority, more revenue will be generated by supporting the development of settled worlds than by pouring money into yet another exploratory mission.

Earth today has the technical capability to put probes on Mars, possibly even men. How many have we actually sent? Our solar system remains largely unexplored not because we lack the technical ability, but because we lack the political will and the financial backing - and it takes ships sooo long to get there.
This is also the situation IMCTU.

Hope that helps - even if only indirectly.

 

[aramis]

We've put over 20 probes to/on/orbiting mars, counting the soviets. half of the Russian ones failed. 2 of our 10 failed. But we also lack fusion power, gravitics, jump drive, and any solid evidence that we are not alone.