Referee Fiat, How Often Do You Indulge In It?
- Thread starter Jeff M. Hopper
- Start date
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Andy, I have done that before to players.
I also had a group (not Traveller) that was thoroughly paranoid by the time we went our separate ways - just because I would almost always roll the dice behind the screen. And, I would do so at odd moments - with no immediate results, just an evil grin. Very often there was absolutely nothing going on, but I wanted to keep them on their toes. I even used it a couple of times to manuever them away from a bad course of action without dropping any other hints at all.
I also had a group (not Traveller) that was thoroughly paranoid by the time we went our separate ways - just because I would almost always roll the dice behind the screen. And, I would do so at odd moments - with no immediate results, just an evil grin. Very often there was absolutely nothing going on, but I wanted to keep them on their toes. I even used it a couple of times to manuever them away from a bad course of action without dropping any other hints at all.
Rossoneill
SOC-12
Andy that was a great solution to the game problem.
I will use it when or if needed in MTU .
I will use it when or if needed in MTU .
Michael Schulz
SOC-12
I may tend to be a little soft on my players in terms of combat. I usually tell my players, at the beginning of each campaign, that they will get one free 'stupid' death. This has been particularly useful for me as in the last year or so I've mostly been playing with players who had little or no RPG experience. I felt they needed a bit of a learning curve, especially if they are learning a new game.
In the last game I ran (WW's Aberrant) the problem I had was that it was waaaaay to hard to seriously injure a few of the PCs, never mind kill them. This led to a few campaign disrupting moments early on when a PC kept killing--with one punch no less--a few NPCs I had crafted to be recurring antagonists.
However, on at least one of those rare occasions when the dice did make it look like the player was going to bite it, whether the 'bad for the PC' roll was applied there and then depended where we were in the adventure. If some nameless thug had managed to get a killing roll well before they encountered the main opposition, I tended to fudge the roll and just hurt the PC. But then later, when the main opposition showed up, I would tend to fudge the dice to make up for my earlier mercy.
In the last game I ran (WW's Aberrant) the problem I had was that it was waaaaay to hard to seriously injure a few of the PCs, never mind kill them. This led to a few campaign disrupting moments early on when a PC kept killing--with one punch no less--a few NPCs I had crafted to be recurring antagonists.
However, on at least one of those rare occasions when the dice did make it look like the player was going to bite it, whether the 'bad for the PC' roll was applied there and then depended where we were in the adventure. If some nameless thug had managed to get a killing roll well before they encountered the main opposition, I tended to fudge the roll and just hurt the PC. But then later, when the main opposition showed up, I would tend to fudge the dice to make up for my earlier mercy.
Apart from those pesky players...
I like the idea of combat dice being rolled out in the open. It would bring home to players the lethality of the system at whatever value of lethality you are playing: if you're running CT/T20, they'll get the idea that firefights are decidedly unhealthy, or if you're running a more D&Dish "heroic" style, they'll see that they needn't sweat too much about the little stuff.
For me, this is a prime candidate for fiat; they're making the risky jump because, in effect, you asked them to: the coordinates came out of your story and could in a valid metagame sense be considered to be there to advance the story. I would be inclined to make the J-roll hidden, and think of some mishap other than misjump (J-drive needs repair before jumping back out, perhaps) that you don't need to make immediately obvious (thus giving yourself time to come up with something challenging and fun).
^ I agree with that statement. If you deliver a clue (red herrings included) or suggest a likely solution to a problem and the players follow it, they shouldn't be penalized with death or dismemberment. Unless, of course, you really want your gaming group to break up that bad.
I try to be as fair as possible when the cruel reality of random numbers raises its ugly head. If I need to use death as a indicator of the severity of the situation, I normally slaughter a or many beloved NPC(s); as many as necessary. That usually gets the point across effectively.
Sure, I've doled out a number of life or career threatening wounds and diseases but always make it an adventure to find adequate medical attention or even replacement parts (TL dependent, of course). I find that when one PC has to drag/carry another PC across a battlefield strewn with the bodies of fallen NPC comrades, it builds a bond between the players that makes the story that much more real.
And the goal here is to tell a great story and have a lot of fun. Few stories worth telling end with all the heroes dead at the feet of the villain, particularly when their deaths were less than heroic or meaningless to the plot.
Case in point; I ran a game where the PC's definitely didn't have enough fire power to meet the objective of the mission. I knew this before they left their base but couldn't disuade them from going anyway; they thought a light force would be undetectable and more effective than a large one.
Instead of allowing them to die at the walls of the fortress (which they seemed more than willing to do), I forced them to confront a lightly armed long range patrol at a considerable distance from the enemy base. During the fray, I allowed two NPC's to take near lethal wounds and one of the PC's to get grazed, effectively turning the mission from a clandestine attack to a medivac under fire. This abbreviated but meaningful session resulted in the PC's reevaluating the situation, building a much more robust and effective force, and collecting more detailed intelligence for their second try (i.e. what they should have done in the first place).
I try to be as fair as possible when the cruel reality of random numbers raises its ugly head. If I need to use death as a indicator of the severity of the situation, I normally slaughter a or many beloved NPC(s); as many as necessary. That usually gets the point across effectively.
Sure, I've doled out a number of life or career threatening wounds and diseases but always make it an adventure to find adequate medical attention or even replacement parts (TL dependent, of course). I find that when one PC has to drag/carry another PC across a battlefield strewn with the bodies of fallen NPC comrades, it builds a bond between the players that makes the story that much more real.
And the goal here is to tell a great story and have a lot of fun. Few stories worth telling end with all the heroes dead at the feet of the villain, particularly when their deaths were less than heroic or meaningless to the plot.
Case in point; I ran a game where the PC's definitely didn't have enough fire power to meet the objective of the mission. I knew this before they left their base but couldn't disuade them from going anyway; they thought a light force would be undetectable and more effective than a large one.
Instead of allowing them to die at the walls of the fortress (which they seemed more than willing to do), I forced them to confront a lightly armed long range patrol at a considerable distance from the enemy base. During the fray, I allowed two NPC's to take near lethal wounds and one of the PC's to get grazed, effectively turning the mission from a clandestine attack to a medivac under fire. This abbreviated but meaningful session resulted in the PC's reevaluating the situation, building a much more robust and effective force, and collecting more detailed intelligence for their second try (i.e. what they should have done in the first place).
P
Pickles
Guest
I've let the dice kill countless PCs over the years - that's what they are there for, after all. Where skill or combat rolls are concerned, there is no such thing as referee fiat in my games .
Characters, no matter how much you have invested in them, are ultimately replaceable and allow the players to try something new next time around. Also, some of my most meaningful RPG moments have been PC deaths (mine included).
However - and it's a big 'however' - I have quite often manipulated the rules to stop disastrous accidents derailing the game. As a ref, I also tend to roll dice behind a screen.
Always look at your dice, work out the total, make a 'mentally calculating' face, and then tell your players that they emergency re-entry worked (but they need a few MCr worth of hull plating and a new ventral turret, and the recycling tank has burst and flooded the crew lounge).
Characters, no matter how much you have invested in them, are ultimately replaceable and allow the players to try something new next time around. Also, some of my most meaningful RPG moments have been PC deaths (mine included).
However - and it's a big 'however' - I have quite often manipulated the rules to stop disastrous accidents derailing the game. As a ref, I also tend to roll dice behind a screen.
Always look at your dice, work out the total, make a 'mentally calculating' face, and then tell your players that they emergency re-entry worked (but they need a few MCr worth of hull plating and a new ventral turret, and the recycling tank has burst and flooded the crew lounge).
Michael Schulz
SOC-12
I may be a bit softer than you on my PCs lives (and really that depends on the campaign), but here, here! The game master 'look at dice, do math, and wince' face should be mastered at GM bootcamp.Originally posted by Bromgrev:
Always look at your dice, work out the total, make a 'mentally calculating' face, and then tell your players that they emergency re-entry worked (but they need a few MCr worth of hull plating and a new ventral turret, and the recycling tank has burst and flooded the crew lounge).
Fritz_Brown
Super Moderator
Absolutely! (Actually, I think that's what I said above....)
Michael Schulz
SOC-12
Well... plagerism is the sincerist form of flattery?
Sifu Blackirish
SOC-14 1K
Interesting topic. I need to throw in my MCr .00000002 to muddy up the waters some...
Jeff M. Hopper said:
I bought a couple of AD&D books at a thrift shop last weekend, and a copy of Dragon magazine. I can hardly recognize the game I played in the 70s and 80s. Am I just too 'old school' to adapt?
When MT came out, I had a method begin to take shape that would let me quantify just how much interference I had on the game. Basically, I made it an impossible task for the PCs to understand what's going on in their scenario. I keep track of exceptional successes for skill use, good role playing, etc. and used it as a floating 'brownie point' total that I used to adjust die rolls if it bacame necessary to do so. Sounds complicated in explanation, but it works smoothly after a couple of tries.
Of course, I do not use this device as a 'deus ex machina' to rescue incredibly stupid players. If someone pulls the pin on that nuclear hand grenade in the airlock, Survival-7 probably won't help...but I do not believe in killing PCs outright. After all, they are a cut above the average storekeeper, and the game should reflect this. Besides, one of the functions of NPCs is to be a handy bullet stopper.
Nice paraphrasing Bromgrev...just what I would have said if I wasn't so wordy...
Jeff M. Hopper said:
Just curious...is this the T20 system?
I bought a couple of AD&D books at a thrift shop last weekend, and a copy of Dragon magazine. I can hardly recognize the game I played in the 70s and 80s. Am I just too 'old school' to adapt?
It's a game. We're supposed to be social and have fun. Why let a few lousy dice rolls ruin the group's enjoyment?
When MT came out, I had a method begin to take shape that would let me quantify just how much interference I had on the game. Basically, I made it an impossible task for the PCs to understand what's going on in their scenario. I keep track of exceptional successes for skill use, good role playing, etc. and used it as a floating 'brownie point' total that I used to adjust die rolls if it bacame necessary to do so. Sounds complicated in explanation, but it works smoothly after a couple of tries.
Of course, I do not use this device as a 'deus ex machina' to rescue incredibly stupid players. If someone pulls the pin on that nuclear hand grenade in the airlock, Survival-7 probably won't help...but I do not believe in killing PCs outright. After all, they are a cut above the average storekeeper, and the game should reflect this. Besides, one of the functions of NPCs is to be a handy bullet stopper.
Nice paraphrasing Bromgrev...just what I would have said if I wasn't so wordy...
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Yes, this was in a T20 game.
I agree. The game has evolved from what it was originally, but every RPG out there has as well. The funny thing to me is that with the new trend in "rules light" gaming, Classic Traveller fits that marketing term to a T.
I don't think anyone is too old to adapt.
I mean, really, the version of Traveller you play is up to you and not written in stone. All versions have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't stay with just one version, I use the one which is best suited to the players and the campaign idea. I play in a CT game and I run a T20 game. The interesting thing is that much of the fiddly bits of Traveller can cross versions very easily.
Sorry, bit of a soapbox for me, I'll climb down off of it now....
M
Malenfant
Guest
Not surprising, because D&D3.5e isn't the game you played in the 70s and 80s
You sure you weren't playing Paranoia?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
My sentiments as well, though the example could be better unless the skill check is to find a quick last meal
Long shots both but hey if the player thinks quick I'll reward that with at least a chance
Yesterday, I got to put my words into action in regards to the initial question on this list. The players misjumped and rolled "00" on their misjump chance.
I took the parallel pocket universe concept as my temporary fix to this issue, and am looking forward to having some fun. This thread has a few more details:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000301
Also, if you are on the TNE 1248 playtest forums, you can read the full details of the session there.
Enjoy,
Flynn
I took the parallel pocket universe concept as my temporary fix to this issue, and am looking forward to having some fun. This thread has a few more details:
http://www.travellerrpg.com/cgi-bin/Trav/CotI/Discuss/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000301
Also, if you are on the TNE 1248 playtest forums, you can read the full details of the session there.
Enjoy,
Flynn
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
Definitely let us know how it all comes out!
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