Robot Ships
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Omnivore
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far-trader
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For reasons of play starship crews are not automated. With robotics and even simple AI there is no reason for a sophont crew, in fact it makes more sense to be automated. Then what would the players be left with as characters? Passengers? It would be a different game. No background careers as heroic Imperial Navy crew. No background careers as stoic Free-Traders with a ship of their own. etc. etc.
There are many suggested in-game reasons for this no (or very low) automation.
The cliche "machines can't be trusted" because we have experienced life under cruel machine rule and vow to never allow that to happen again (the Vilani fighting the leftover war machines of the Ancients).
The usual "technology has not yet made a machine capable of thinking" impediment.
Or "only an organic mind is capable of surviving consciously through jumpspace" and all computers and artificial minds have to be shut down or are destroyed once the jump drive is engaged. All attempts at automated jump result in the loss of the ship.
...off the top of my head
There are many suggested in-game reasons for this no (or very low) automation.
The cliche "machines can't be trusted" because we have experienced life under cruel machine rule and vow to never allow that to happen again (the Vilani fighting the leftover war machines of the Ancients).
The usual "technology has not yet made a machine capable of thinking" impediment.
Or "only an organic mind is capable of surviving consciously through jumpspace" and all computers and artificial minds have to be shut down or are destroyed once the jump drive is engaged. All attempts at automated jump result in the loss of the ship.
...off the top of my head
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Omnivore
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The retired Imperial Navy fighter pilot turned truck driver orders his robotic crew, "Disengage cargo pod, reconfigure for combat, power up the laser bay." If another human was present they would notice a predatory grin creep across the pilot's face.
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far-trader
SOC-14 10K
computer "Are you sure you want to disengage cargo pod? This action has no undo. Y N "
exasperated retired IN pilot "YES! Do it!"
computer "Loading disengage program...
...
...
...
computer "...unrecoverable error loading disengage program. Incompatible cargo pod. Please update disengage program drivers and restart computer."
:devil:
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Omnivore
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For reasons of play starship crews are not automated. With robotics and even simple AI there is no reason for a sophont crew, in fact it makes more sense to be automated. Then what would the players be left with as characters? Passengers? It would be a different game. No background careers as heroic Imperial Navy crew. No background careers as stoic Free-Traders with a ship of their own. etc. etc.
There are many suggested in-game reasons for this no (or very low) automation.
The cliche "machines can't be trusted" because we have experienced life under cruel machine rule and vow to never allow that to happen again (the Vilani fighting the leftover war machines of the Ancients).
The usual "technology has not yet made a machine capable of thinking" impediment.
Or "only an organic mind is capable of surviving consciously through jumpspace" and all computers and artificial minds have to be shut down or are destroyed once the jump drive is engaged. All attempts at automated jump result in the loss of the ship.
...off the top of my head
To me it isn't an either or situation, but an and to use as an addition. Such as the characters are part of a low berth emergency crew when suddenly they are awoken by the ship and it tells them that an unauthorized boarding has occured....
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Shush - we aren't supposed to notice that the rules for robots make the entire setting unplausible.
It is only implausible if one tries to use it as a paradigm and apply it across all of charted space. It's the rats that get in through the cracks that disrupt things and with places like the Spinward Marches, oh so what a very cracked land it is.
DangerousThing
SOC-13
Or somebody suggests that a logical robot pilot with no conception of its own death would make the perfect suicide bomber on the near-c planetary attack.
DangerousThing
SOC-13
Mine is that there must be at least one, better yet more, sophant minds aboard in meta-space (or jump-space or whatever you want to call it). If there isn't, the ship just slow and softly vanishes away.
Plus, a human crew is usually less expensive than a lot of robots (I make them expensive if they're good).
Though I allow highly automated ships in because sometimes there are only a few players to fly that ship. And if you do this, it's worth the money to get highly reliable AIs.
Or somebody suggests that a logical robot pilot with no conception of its own death would make the perfect suicide bomber on the near-c planetary attack.
Darkstar has some pretty good robot bombs. Though I have other reasons why near-c attacks fail, but that is in another thread.
IMTU there are robot pilots, engineers, etc.; they are just not as able to deal with unusual circumstances.
Imatu.
Actually in my ATU I would totally allow it.
But then in my ATU Andr/Gynoids aren't second class Citizens as they are of human intellect and such.
Robots on the other hand are treated along the lines of lower order animals, you can't mistreat them and they are used for boring work, like say farming or industry. Of course not everyone can afford them and the Permatic Imperium has a serious hand crafted is better meme it pushes to keep humans and other sophonts employed.
Laterness,
Craig.
Actually in my ATU I would totally allow it.
But then in my ATU Andr/Gynoids aren't second class Citizens as they are of human intellect and such.
Robots on the other hand are treated along the lines of lower order animals, you can't mistreat them and they are used for boring work, like say farming or industry. Of course not everyone can afford them and the Permatic Imperium has a serious hand crafted is better meme it pushes to keep humans and other sophonts employed.
Laterness,
Craig.
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Employed to do what though?
Ship interview of prospective biological crew...
Pilot? No, the AI is far superior in every circumstance.
Navigator? No, again the AI is better.
Engineer? Nope, not that either.
Gunner? Of course not.
Medic? Don't be silly.
Steward? Yes. You are hired. For some reason passengers feel more comfortable and superior when being waited on by another "lower" social rank fellow being.
The ship muses to itself ...just as soon as we can make convincing androids and I'm not saying we don't already :devil: then we can forget about needing to hire any inferior biological crew.
So, do you really want all your player characters to be Stewards? With no combat training or any other "adventuring" background and skills? (unnecessary after all) To do what in the game? Solve the mystery of the missing tureen? (Hint, the Steward did it
)
Huh. Well that's the way I think, too. But.
But, my players seldom drool over the chance to Astrogate. Or even Engineer. Or be a gunner (let's face it, firing ship's guns isn't nearly as interesting as firing your ACR-12).
But, ship combat tends to be something approximating death for role-playing, unless I homebrew something in.
But, most adventures take place when the players get to their destination.
But, those adventures that take place on board their ship seldom involve operating the ship. Sometimes. Rarely, though.
I still won't automate MTU. It is boring. But.
But, I could say that anything sophisticated enough to take over crew positions is, in essence, crew.
Swapping organics for electronics might not change the fact that the replacement still thinks of itself as a person, with a personality, a history, goals of its own.
Which would make the captain the owner of sentient beings. Now that I would allow in MTU, and let the players try and sort out any feelings they may have on the matter.
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Rise of the machines, could someone make a robot Nat Turner?
far-trader
SOC-14 10K
Sure, I agree, but
The player characters need a reason to be on the ship, to be travelling to other worlds, to be getting into all those "fun" bits. Traveller generally supposes they do that and are prepared for the "fun" bits by being and having been space crew.
Automate things and you change that.
Not that it's a bad way to go, I never intended to imply that, just that it will be different... such as the PCs are, quite simply and appropriately for the game, Travellers.
Once you introduce the level of AI that eliminates the need for ship crews it is a different universe. One that is unlikely to get back to needing ship crews. Those jobs, and hence the training and experience for them, will be gone and not coming back.
Just as humans were replaced by automotive assembly line welder robots because they are faster, better and cheaper. Just as I read in the news today that Canon (iirc) is going fully automated in camera assembly (in one plant at least).
It's not a bad thing, it's just a change. Unless you're the worker being replaced.
In the game it could be a very interesting scenario. Generate the characters normally then have them discharged because they are replaced by AIs. Their once valued and valuable space skills are now unemployable except on the few antiquated small ships still stubbornly plying the space lanes. Ships which will in a few years be so obsolete as to be outlawed as hazards to safe navigation and ordered upgraded to AI or scrapped. Do the players go underground and keep working? Or resign themselves to early retirement? Or upgrade their ship and become redundant aboard? Maybe they will look forward to just travelling... and still finding "adventure" in that.
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