saundby
SOC-14 1K
ICv2 has released their rankings for the top 5 RPGs for Q3 2010:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18504.html
Traveller doesn't appear on this list. I'm going to see if I can get a look at the full list.
The list appears to reflect only hobby channel sales.
Using the same techniques they did (interviews with retailers and distro reps in my case) I get a different list. I'm sure I've got fewer data points than ICv2, but I check outside the hobby channel as well as in it.
I also split and group a bit differently than ICv2, but not a lot.
Here's my present list, FWIW, based on about 25 different unscientifically selected sources over the past 10 weeks or so:
1. PFRPG
2. D&D4
--
3. D&D3.5
4. WoD
5. WH40K RPG (DH, RT, etc.)
--
6. WFRP3
7. Gamma World 4th
8. Dresden Files (tied)
9. MGT Traveller (tied)
--
10. DC Adventures
11. Serenity
A -- marks a strong break in popularity level.
The D&D4 starter set is the star seller for D&D4 right now. Without it, PFRPG is outselling D&D4 handily. Including it, PFRPG wins by a whisker.
PFRPG is one of the things buoying 3.5 sales, along with 4.0 refuseniks and groups going retrograde from 4.0.
WoD is getting most of its sales outside the hobby channel. In the hobby channel it's below DF and Trav as far as I can tell. I guess it draws a more mainstream player (Twilight readers? Just a guess, I have no idea.)
DF and Traveller sales are neck and neck. DF is hot right now, but Trav's TMB, LBB1, and Beltstrike have shown staying power that the DF books may or may not match.
Some other things I've learned, anecdotally, from those selling product in brick and mortar as well as those who are online (and mixed outlets):
Most young players are introduced to roleplaying by an over-40 player.
Young players' second gaming contact is usually with their peers.
Nearly all "core" players <25 play with both older groups (avg age >35) and one or more groups their own age. I.e., youth groups tend to form around youths that play with oldsters.
Younger players favor:
1. what they know,
2. inexpensive,
3. "complete" rulesets.
What they know is both what games they've played and what milieux they are familiar with.
Inexpensive favors few core books, rules available used, or cheap PDFs.
Complete favors out of print and small required core book sets.
D&D4 seems to lose on all of these propositions (except for the new 4E Basic Set. I don't have a read on how many of these are nostalgia sales to older gamers vs. sales to younger gamers.)
PFRPG appears to hit all three since most new gamers are joining a d20 game of some variety, there are only 2 core books, and Paizo's PDFs are dirt cheap.
Anyway, I was interested to see DF at #5 on ICv2's list, since to my knowledge MGT Traveller is selling at least as well. I can't help but wonder if it's #6 on their list.
Does anyone know the next 5 from the ICv2 list? (And care to share?) Their list is the closest thing left to an independent industry sale rank that I know of. My experience also tells me that their discernment isn't the greatest. They tend to heavily favor whatever's being talked up the most, at least with respect to non-rpg properties. Solid longer-term sellers seem to get short shrift relative to stuff getting a spike in early sell through, even considering that they're using quarterly results.
*shrug*
It's all make-believe, anyway. Mine and theirs.
What's your take?
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/18504.html
Traveller doesn't appear on this list. I'm going to see if I can get a look at the full list.
The list appears to reflect only hobby channel sales.
Using the same techniques they did (interviews with retailers and distro reps in my case) I get a different list. I'm sure I've got fewer data points than ICv2, but I check outside the hobby channel as well as in it.
I also split and group a bit differently than ICv2, but not a lot.
Here's my present list, FWIW, based on about 25 different unscientifically selected sources over the past 10 weeks or so:
1. PFRPG
2. D&D4
--
3. D&D3.5
4. WoD
5. WH40K RPG (DH, RT, etc.)
--
6. WFRP3
7. Gamma World 4th
8. Dresden Files (tied)
9. MGT Traveller (tied)
--
10. DC Adventures
11. Serenity
A -- marks a strong break in popularity level.
The D&D4 starter set is the star seller for D&D4 right now. Without it, PFRPG is outselling D&D4 handily. Including it, PFRPG wins by a whisker.
PFRPG is one of the things buoying 3.5 sales, along with 4.0 refuseniks and groups going retrograde from 4.0.
WoD is getting most of its sales outside the hobby channel. In the hobby channel it's below DF and Trav as far as I can tell. I guess it draws a more mainstream player (Twilight readers? Just a guess, I have no idea.)
DF and Traveller sales are neck and neck. DF is hot right now, but Trav's TMB, LBB1, and Beltstrike have shown staying power that the DF books may or may not match.
Some other things I've learned, anecdotally, from those selling product in brick and mortar as well as those who are online (and mixed outlets):
Most young players are introduced to roleplaying by an over-40 player.
Young players' second gaming contact is usually with their peers.
Nearly all "core" players <25 play with both older groups (avg age >35) and one or more groups their own age. I.e., youth groups tend to form around youths that play with oldsters.
Younger players favor:
1. what they know,
2. inexpensive,
3. "complete" rulesets.
What they know is both what games they've played and what milieux they are familiar with.
Inexpensive favors few core books, rules available used, or cheap PDFs.
Complete favors out of print and small required core book sets.
D&D4 seems to lose on all of these propositions (except for the new 4E Basic Set. I don't have a read on how many of these are nostalgia sales to older gamers vs. sales to younger gamers.)
PFRPG appears to hit all three since most new gamers are joining a d20 game of some variety, there are only 2 core books, and Paizo's PDFs are dirt cheap.
Anyway, I was interested to see DF at #5 on ICv2's list, since to my knowledge MGT Traveller is selling at least as well. I can't help but wonder if it's #6 on their list.
Does anyone know the next 5 from the ICv2 list? (And care to share?) Their list is the closest thing left to an independent industry sale rank that I know of. My experience also tells me that their discernment isn't the greatest. They tend to heavily favor whatever's being talked up the most, at least with respect to non-rpg properties. Solid longer-term sellers seem to get short shrift relative to stuff getting a spike in early sell through, even considering that they're using quarterly results.
*shrug*
It's all make-believe, anyway. Mine and theirs.
What's your take?
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