Salt Slugs (of the non-animal variety)

[Vargr]

I was checking shotguns and their different types of ammo and remembered something I read/heard in stories but that I am not sure is not apocryphical.

Salt Slugs. Shotgun slugs that are filled with salt (of the coarse variety).

According to legend these things don't kill, but hurt like hell; and were used for things like riot control or fending off animals.

As anyone ever heard of this? if so, what do you think the stats should be for these slugs in MGT?

 

[sabredog]

Back in grandad's day you supposedly loaded your own shotshells with rock salt to get rid of kids in your yard ("Git away from ma' daughter you varmint!") or similar pests. You couldn't buy "salt shot" in stores. But since its a big, smoothbore barrel you can load the shells yourself with just about anything you want so long as it's not going to jam the barrel.

Whether it really works or not is, IMHO, highly doubtful unless you are so close, and the load so light that you could just as easily cause more damage with a baseball bat or BB gun. Or use your .22 loaded with snake shot.

Lemme do a quick spin of Google and see what comes up on that great mass subconsciousness known as the internet.

 

[sabredog]

Here's what I found so far: the caveat always being the same as with that Mythbusters show - just because it does or doesn't work this time doesn't mean it's false or a false positive. Repeatability is the cornerstone of good science.


http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33_3.htm

That said I think this guy's take is probably accurate, though, since I have a hard time imagining rock salt penetrating anything other than at other than point-blank range. This is because of personal experience:

Once upon a time my brother and I were out target shooting with, among other guns, a couple of Winchester Defenders. We were using clay pigeon loads and shooting at the usual plastic coke bottle, etc.. A steel sign was lying there in the pile of shot-to-scrap junk other people dragged out to that spot to shoot at, and my brother thought he'd shoot at it.

I warned him that it wouldn't work (at about 15 yards or so) because the loads were too light, but he did it anyway. We heard the steel shot wang off the sign and my brother jumped around yelling and slapping his shins when the shot recoiled off the sign and smacked him. Fortunately for him he had aimed low (or his guardian angel just figured it wasn't time for him to put his eye out) but it left a few welts under his Levi's.

Given that hilarious (to me, anyway) and unscientific incident i think the rock salt thing is more like some hillbilly legend.

But.......there is this interesting site that also popped up:
http://seasonshot.com/Home.cfm

hmmmmmm.....the question remains....

 

[PFVA63]

Hi

I seem to recall an episode of the "Beverly Hillbillies" TV show where granny used rock slat in her shotgun to drive away actors dressed as Union Soldiers (I think?).

Regards

PF

 

[aramis]

Not slugs, just rock salt loads.

I've seen them used on dogs. Dog lived. Dog was MOST unhappy... yelping, running like mad. Dog avoided the yard ever after.

Just a normal powder load. Replace shot with rocksalt. Food grade if you don't want trouble if you have to use it on people.

 

[Blue Ghost]

I'll echo the Granny Bevery-Hillbilly reference. I always figured if I were to buy myself a working weapon, that this would be the avenue I would go in terms of home defense.

... either that or a plasma rifle with the 12-watt range.

 

[sabredog]

I'll stick with my 3" 00 buckshot and slugs, thank you. Anyone in my house without my permission is not going to get some dubious less-lethal load used on them.

We use the new 40mm beanbags at work now and after having shot a guy (who was only really mad, not even on drugs) 4 times with one of those last summer, and still having to dogpile him to get the cuffs on I can't recommend that the same material I cook roast beef with has any better ability to subdue a human. Unless I'm so close that I might as well just smack him with the buttstock, but then I have a felon-sticker on the muzzle of my shotgun for that purpose, too, so I don't damage the gun.

 

[aramis]

I'll stick with my 3" 00 buckshot and slugs, thank you. Anyone in my house without my permission is not going to get some dubious less-lethal load used on them.

And, in some jurisdictions, you've just established homicidal intent...

In others, use of rock salt is intent to maim.

The aforementioned dog was shot between 20 and 30 feet, and WAS bleeding.

 

[Spinward Scout]

They use pepper shot around here. I would think salt would hurt worse.

 

[sabredog]

You are laboring under a common anti-gun liberal and uneducated misconception about personal and home defense.

In any jurisdiction killing another human being, intentionally or no, is defined as homicide. Whether or not it is a criminal act as opposed to self defense is another animal entirely. If I shoot someone at work because I am defending myself or someone else I've committed homicide until cleared by the investigating authorities and I'm empowered to do so beyond the average joe citizen.

Carrying on your person (concealed with a permit or as otherwise required by law) a firearm for defense is not considered homicidal intent. Nor is having a firearm in your house for defense considered as such in any jurisdiction, (although some places might not allow you to own a firearm - which another test case of is coming before the Supremes again soon). Now, some jurisdictions may "require" you to use what is legally called "an avenue or path of retreat" before dumping someone who has invaded your home (the state I live in has that requirement - although I have yet to see it practiced) but all that does is make sure you understand that if the bad is running out the door with your TV you can't just shoot him in the back, and some states have the "castle laws" which sensibly allow you to defend your property be it inside or outside (mileage may vary) your domicile.

Regardless of all the technicalities, the bottom line is always the totality of the circumstances, and that is going to be what was the guy doing in your house and what did you feel his intent was. Was I afraid the intruder would harm me or my family? What time of day/night was it? Was he/she armed? Was the person on meth or other drugs? Mental?

But to argue that legally carrying or owning the means to defend oneself in their home, and being ready and willing to use said means is equal to criminal intent is, well, beyond belief. Its called your constitutional right and good sense. Speaking with a high degree of authority I can tell you that when seconds count the cops are only ten minutes away.

You sure you want to have just less-lethal in your hand? I've been tased, as part of training, and I can tell you all it did was stun me for the 5 second cycle...after that I could get right back up and into the fight. I've seen the same thing happen many times on duty. You point a gun at someone without the intent to use it and that guy may very well take from you and use it on you and your loved ones. They ain't the magic wands you see in TV shows and in your RPG games.

 

[far-trader]

And we're already treading too far into forbidden topics on the board. Keep it focused on game rules or this gets locked, deletions, and infractions.

 

[sabredog]

Sigh....someone always is spoiling the fun....

OK, then I say I'd rather use a shotgun round for 4D6 damage at Short range if a Vargr breaks into my house than try to hit his butt with rock salt for only 1D6-2.

 

[Vargr]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for all your replies. I was about to ask the thread didn't devolve into a debate about minutiae of the ownership and use of weapons but it seems the mods beat me to it.

So it seems rock salt loads are real, though their efficiency is highly debatable. I should have explained further my interest in them.

You see, I am creating an ex-marine NPC who owns a bar at a starport. I would like him to have the proverbial "shotgun under the balcony"; but I figured shooting a lethal weapon that scatters ammo into a potential crowded area is a terrible way to do business with your clients. So I wondered if rock salt loads would do the trick at, say, dispersing a mean bar brawl.

OK, then I say I'd rather use a shotgun round for 4D6 damage at Short range if a Vargr breaks into my house than try to hit his butt with rock salt for only 1D6-2.

That sounds like a good damage range. You can always shoot'em with both barrels for double damage. :smirk:

 

[fiat_knox]

Just rule that the salt shot inflicts 1 point of damage, tops, plus a whole lot of pain. Stings like a paddle made of nettles, but it won't kill the target unless the muzzle of the gun's in the target's mouth.

 

[Jae]

Different strokes for different folks...

Sabredog wrote: "You are laboring under a common anti-gun liberal and uneducated misconception about personal and home defense..."

One of the joys of Traveller is the ability for our characters to travel to radically different cultures and experience different laws and interpretations of the same...

Here in the UK for example laws regarding self-defence are interpreted much more rigorously as this story from the UK shows:

"Myleene Klass has 'no regrets' over knife incident" - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/8451369.stm

This variety makes for great fun when playing.

 

[far-trader]

Fine, it's locked. Expect action to follow when I have the time to waste on those here who can't or won't play by the rules. I'm tempted to just give the lot of you a temp ban since I'm too annoyed at the moment to sort out which of you are guilty.

 

[far-trader]

Apologies for the interruption to your thread Vargr. Infractions have been issued to the guilty parties and the thread is now open again. Proceed with caution. I won't be so generous here again.

 

[Sturn]

My father told the tale several times about being shot in the butt once with rock salt when he was young and how much it stung. I don't recall the details of the story such as what range, did the rock salt penetrate his jeans, etc. I do recall that it was NOT a tall tale he was telling, but of course he may have added some details for dramatic flare.

He never mentioned any scars on his buttocks and I never examined them closely o: so it may have been a non-penetration hit that didn't penetrate his blue jeans (which he wore 100% of the time when not showering or sleeping). The tale never mentioned him being naked running through the field (yes I recall he was shot in a field) which I think I would have remembered if it were the case.

 

[fiat_knox]

Salt shot's the low-cost, low-tech answer to non-lethal weaponry such as mercy shot, beanbag rounds and so on. Hurts like hell, maybe knocks the characters over but does no lasting damage.

It conjures up images of rural low tech farmers striding across wheat fields looking for that darned fox that's been at the chicken coop again. Hell, Dad used to hunt foxes and rabbits when he was much younger, and I think Dad used to use salt shot in his gun. Grandad too.

 

[Vargr]

Thank you for re-opening the thread, Mr. Mod.


Someone at the Mongoose forums suggested treating these as chemical projectiles because of the salt's effect.

I'm going for the suggested very low damage variable of 1d6-2 (only at close/short range) and come up with a temporary stunning effect and/or negative DM for actions until you get "the salt off the wounds".

Armor will count as double protection. So someone covered head-to-toe in a biker's leather is going to be unfazed.