Saw the book at a local bookstore

[whartung]

A local Barnes and Noble, they have a small game section. Bunch of D&D typically, but I did see the new Traveller book.

I mostly thumbed through it, but I was a bit disappointed with what I saw.

I was disappointed at the density in the book. Didn't seem like the text was very tight. I also didn't care much for the paper quality.

I contrast it to my original TNE book, which is thicker and a lot more text, closer together, and in a smaller font.

I also contrast it to a current 4th Ed ShadowRun rulebook sitting next to it. It was thicker, denser, better paper, 2 color (green borders, black text, white glossy paper) as well as some full color pages. It was also cheaper -- $35 vs $39. I was actually a bit shocked that the book was $39.

I, again, didn't look at it closely, or read it at all, simply skimming it. But just seemed lacking compared to the others around it. I didn't care for the character class art, though I did like the starship art and all of the deckplans -- it had a lot of deckplans.

But just from an overall production quality look, I don't think it appeared very good in a "judging a book by it's cover and weight" kind of metric when you compared to the others next to it on the shelf.

 

[Supplement Four]

I, again, didn't look at it closely, or read it at all, simply skimming it. But just seemed lacking compared to the others around it. I didn't care for the character class art, though I did like the starship art and all of the deckplans -- it had a lot of deckplans.

But just from an overall production quality look, I don't think it appeared very good in a "judging a book by it's cover and weight" kind of metric when you compared to the others next to it on the shelf.

It's interesting that Mongoose's Conan game is the exact opposite. Good quality paper. Nice "look". Good art. Big, thick, dense book.

 

[GypsyComet]

I contrast it to my original TNE book, which is thicker and a lot more text, closer together, and in a smaller font.

The main TNE book was a disaster of typography and layout. Congrats on being able to read it, but it is hardly a paragon by which to measure other books.

After first read, I prefer a rulebook that can be easily skimmed for the needed information. The Mongoose book addresses that preference quite handily.

 

[aramis]

The paper quality is just fine. It's durable enough that my 4yo grabbing th book by a single page didn't rip it. It's a recycled paper, it's not glossy (thank the makers) so it won't have the glare issues so many rulebooks have these days, and it is comfortably spaced for me, unlike some books of recent read.

The contrast is very high, so scotopic sensitivity is an issue, but I'm used to simply shading books to ovrcome most of that..

Now, by contrast, a more expensive book: the Inquisitor's handbook for Dark Heresy: by the time I got it home, one page had ripped TWICE just from handling in transit inside the bag. The print is black on about 40% gray... somewhat low for most people. The print is fairly tight, and somewhat smaller, and not visually set up well for quick reference.

So, I'm quite happy with the look. It's as friendly as my heavily abused TTB from 1983.

Personally, I dislike the high-clay glossy papers so common in the excessively illustrated art-instead-of-content books so common these days.

Note also: D&D4 and Dark Heresy both have less art over all than many recent RPG's; D&D4 and MoTrav are about equal in terms of art ratio. D&D 4 is color on glossy, and smudges easily. MoTrav is B&W on matte, and easier to read and to annotate.

Then again, I live in a state where the sun shines from the horizon a majority of the day, and glare is thus a MAJOR issue.

 

[Omega Man]

It's interesting that Mongoose's Conan game is the exact opposite. Good quality paper. Nice "look". Good art. Big, thick, dense book.

I agree. I think Mongoose's Conan book looks robust and ornate while their Traveller book looks quite anemic. Often enough in my gaming career I've been swayed in my purchasing decisions by such things as how pretty and heavy a rulebook is. Silly, but true. Now as it happens I like both systems and while Mongoose's Traveller lacks the polish of the moribund d20 system found in Conan, Traveller is just starting it's lifecycle. The Traveller rules are fun. A whole lot of fun and well worth the asking price. If you ask me.

 

[MongooseMatt]

It's interesting that Mongoose's Conan game is the exact opposite. Good quality paper.

They use the same paper. . .

 

[MongooseMatt]

a lot more text, closer together, and in a smaller font.

Not always a plus. . .

 

[tbeard1999]

The main TNE book was a disaster of typography and layout. Congrats on being able to read it, but it is hardly a paragon by which to measure other books.

After first read, I prefer a rulebook that can be easily skimmed for the needed information. The Mongoose book addresses that preference quite handily.

Yeah, I gotta give TNE the award for worst layout in a professional RPG product of all time. Lousy fonts, 300 dpi laser printed masters, etc.

However, whartung is right; it is a mighty and dense tome.

 

[casquilho]

It's interesting that Mongoose's Conan game is the exact opposite. Good quality paper.

They use the same paper. . .

Come on Matt, you are ruining their fun with facts.

:rofl:

Daniel

 

[Allensh]

I will echo Aramis on this; the "glossy paper full color" movement in RPGs has not neccesarily been to their benefit. Mongoose Traveller gets the job done and does it well. Its no more fancy than the original Traveller Book was. It contains equivalent amounts of information (and even a little more) and does it in a concise and very readable fashion. The pages don't tear and they don't smear. I'm quite ok with the book in most respects. There are some editing errors that exist, most minor (The only big one I have found is the omission of the range modifiers for space combat).

And it's selling quite well, as is its first supplement so that says a lot to me about the general public's preference for a GOOD game over a FANCY game.

Allen

 

[kafka47]

Apparently, Mongoose was echoing the sediment of some Traveller fans who like the miminalist look harkening back to the LBBs. For me that is a mistake, for if CT is anything...it was JTAS with tons of wonderful illustrations that made my imagination soar.

However, they are are aware of the drawbacks of their approach and might rectify it in the future.

 

[MongooseMatt]

And it's selling quite well, as is its first supplement so that says a lot to me about the general public's preference for a GOOD game over a FANCY game.

Absolutely. The choice to echo the LBBs was certainly the right one, and we have had a flood of comments from retailers and distributors to back that one up.

We also try very hard to concentrate on _clarity_ in main rulebooks, avoiding the reams and reams of block text. For us, the point is not trying to squeeze as much information as humanly possible into a rulebook (that cen be left to sourcebooks - not supplements - at least to a degree). The idea is that if you are looking for a certain rule during a game, you should be able to find it quickly, and comprehend it with just a glance at the relevant section. At all costs, we try to avoid the rulebook itself impinging on the game (which harks back to the playtest Initiative rules - that which detracts from the story is bad).

Basically, the game is meant to be played, not read (which also harks back to comments made about the character creation system in Traveller - it is quite easy to spot the ones who have just read the rules rather than actually _played_ them in a _group_ ).

 

[GypsyComet]

it was JTAS with tons of wonderful illustrations that made my imagination soar.

Note that it is very possible to keep the text fairly open and readable and still have a good illustration load. The MGT rulebook does have art, something that was almost entirely absent from the CT rulebooks until later runs.

I agree that evocative art is an important part of an RPG, as it can convey elements of the assumed setting in ways the authors may not know how to put in words...

 

[mike wightman]

I like the book - now that I've had a chance to have a good look at it.

Paper quality is sturdy enough to survive the demands of page turning and rules finding, and I find the layout easy to read.

The only negative I have is a comparison between it and the original CT hardback book - there was so much more in the latter.

All in all though a nice core rule book.

 

[Allensh]

I like the book - now that I've had a chance to have a good look at it.

Paper quality is sturdy enough to survive the demands of page turning and rules finding, and I find the layout easy to read.

The only negative I have is a comparison between it and the original CT hardback book - there was so much more in the latter.

All in all though a nice core rule book.

Having recently had both books open on my table at the same time to do a point-by-point comparison, I fail to see what the Traveller Book had that Mongoose Traveller does not, aside from two adventures...and quite frankly, Shadows is boring and if I never see Exit Visa again it will be too soon.

Allen

 

[aramis]

The only negative I have is a comparison between it and the original CT hardback book - there was so much more in the latter.

Mike, the only things not covered in MoT CRB that are covered in CT-TTB are the regina subsector, a crappy adventure, and adverts for the line of LBB supplements.

But they added cyber, more careers, non-military at that, and options were added to world generation.

 

[mike wightman]

An introduction, a referee's guide, library data, Exit Visa (I won't bring myself to tare the pages out but I have been tempted ).

Mind you I think the deck plans in the Mongoose version - and the points you mentioned Aramis - are what makes it a good book in my opinion.

It's a Traveller core rulebook, it's inprint, it is being bought by "new blood", and there are years of future supplements to come - both official and third party.

(Hmm - I wonder if that makes it legal to finally put out CT lite or CT+ if I base them on MgT... )

 

[aramis]

THat library data is part of the Regina Subsector materials, IMO.

There is an unlabelled introduction section in MoTrav... Pages 3-4.

 

[tbeard1999]

Absolutely. The choice to echo the LBBs was certainly the right one, and we have had a flood of comments from retailers and distributors to back that one up.

I think that this was the right call. Regardless of quibbles about the game system, I definitely felt a tingle when I saw that black book and the classic Traveller-esque logo. I'm no marketing expert, but if nostalgia buyers are a major target market, then I'd continue the format.

We also try very hard to concentrate on _clarity_ in main rulebooks, avoiding the reams and reams of block text.

I'd strongly suggest that you find a new typeface for body text. The current one is not particularly readable IMHO. It's a bit too light and a bit too condensed in my opinion.

The paper did seem a bit thin to me, but only time will tell if that translates into reduced durability.

 

[sabredog]

A local Barnes and Noble, they have a small game section. Bunch of D&D typically, but I did see the new Traveller book.

I mostly thumbed through it, but I was a bit disappointed with what I saw.

I was disappointed at the density in the book. Didn't seem like the text was very tight. I also didn't care much for the paper quality.

I contrast it to my original TNE book, which is thicker and a lot more text, closer together, and in a smaller font.

I also contrast it to a current 4th Ed ShadowRun rulebook sitting next to it. It was thicker, denser, better paper, 2 color (green borders, black text, white glossy paper) as well as some full color pages. It was also cheaper -- $35 vs $39. I was actually a bit shocked that the book was $39.

I, again, didn't look at it closely, or read it at all, simply skimming it. But just seemed lacking compared to the others around it. I didn't care for the character class art, though I did like the starship art and all of the deckplans -- it had a lot of deckplans.

But just from an overall production quality look, I don't think it appeared very good in a "judging a book by it's cover and weight" kind of metric when you compared to the others next to it on the shelf.

I used to buy my rules by the pound back in the day, so I too was a bit put off by the threadbare quality of the book.

Seriously, though, I was pretty surprised by the lack of quality feel, but then one of the things I always loved was the incredible quality of all GDW products, not just Traveller. JTAS was the best supporting periodical of any game system, in my opinion, and I always eagerly awaited the next copy due. The rules, bare of flashy pictures though they were, were some of the best, most cleanly written among the games of their time. A real pleasure to read.

This MGT seemed slapdash and "rushed".