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Second Life

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SOC-12
After quite a long absence, I'm poking my head back in my favorite Traveller hangout. Mostly to ask a question...start a discussion, perhaps...and certainly to see what my fellow Travellers think about the immersive online environment of Second Life and it's possible impact on RPG's.
When SL first appeared, I checked it out...thought it was a bit interesting, but rather limited in scope. Several years passed by before I logged in again...last November, as a matter of fact...and for the past five months I have been neck deep in what I feel to be the most amazing place. It's sucked my entire gaming group in, as well.
SL seems to be the perfect territory to explore the future of RPG's...Traveller, included. My group has become involved in a particularly vivid RP environment there...very dark, very dystopian, very cyberpunk....and we're completely loving it.
It's literally like we're all teenagers again, huddled around a table, dice in hand, scribbling notes on paper and swilling down Pepsi behind mouthfulls of delivery pizza and Lay's potato chips.
Again...I want to make it clear that I'm not some new arrival to Second Life...and I clearly recognize its many shortcomings. But after visiting some of the very incredible Star Trek builds there (they have an almost-completely fleshed-out Klingon Bird of Prey that you can walk around inside...not to mention a firefly merchant vessel in a firefly-themed sim...), I'm wondering why I don't see more Traveller players there.
Any thoughts? I'm curious about this thing that's caused my beloved Traveller books to gather a thick coating of dust where they rest on the shelves.
 
I for one cannot afford to engage in such games, my Traveller/RPG habit causes me about $200 every six months or so plus additional costs for Cons. Plus, I think, if it were to work Marc would really have to lighten up some his attitudes. But, I can envision the day when we all role play this way but it will be kinda sad that tabletop games will be relegated to the old dice games like Bones or what is traditional card games. Although, the way poker has made a come back, maybe in another 10yrs we will see massive (trans)national Traveller tournaments played on television for big cash...well, ok, allow me to dream a bit...
 
Yeah, we loved that one.


(I'm a.k.a. Joshua Linden @ Linden Lab. Great to hear you're having fun, signless. What's your av's name in SL?)

BTW, here's the "cease and desist" letter that was sent to the parodista: http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/2007/01/my-project-du-jour-getafirstlifecom.html#comment-75509
 
Originally posted by Malenfant:
that is a great "C&D" letter
Click to expand...
Yeah, refreshing, in fact in this modern world of litigation to hear some common sense prevailing.

So, our very own Joshua Bell is the creator of Second Life? Well, I never!

Someone over on the Deckplans Yahoo group was building a Suleiman Scout in Second Life. I've not heard about it for a while though. He probably gave up when he discovered that the inside doesn't fit into the outside and never will
file_23.gif


Crow
 
I have yet to try roleplaying in Second Life - but given the possibilites, one might have much fun there if properly prepared. The graphical element helps to add much of an additional depth to the chatroom environment (for me it basically is a more or less complex, highly-individualizeable 3d chatroom) - as long as one is willing to create the desired objects which is basically a matter of time. I wish I were able to create more interesting textures - then I would have tried to recreate a spaceship already.

If it is the future of roleplaying - I do not know. I daresay I still prefer the direct engagement, as good as the virtual alternative may be. But it adds another possible way of RPing, less prone to physical distances and the time at hand.
 
Dear Folks -

Originally posted by Joshua Bell:
Yeah, we loved that one.


(I'm a.k.a. Joshua Linden @ Linden Lab.
Click to expand...
So, Joshua, any thoughts on the original question:

"I'm wondering why I don't see more Traveller players there. Any thoughts?"

Maybe inviting Andrew, Scarecrow, mickazoid, and the guy who's creating the starport to build a virtual AHL - either landed on its tail, or as a "floating island" - would start things happening...

I daresay I still prefer the direct engagement, as good as the virtual alternative may be.
Click to expand...
Until you can swing from any chandelier, pick up and throw sand in an enemy's face, and passwall, glassee, or dig into anything, face-to-face will remain the most flexible gaming environment.

"Roleplay using your actual figurines!"
 
As far as I can tell, cost is the only inhibiting factor preventing some interesting Traveller action in SL. Until the server code is open-sourced (which I understand is its inevitable fate), the price of purchasing and then running one's own sim is rather prohibitive.
But I'm curious about the so-called "superiority" of the face-to-face RPG encounter. With the flexible chat/IM capacity built-in to SL, a practically limitless RP environment exists...with the added benefit of a 3D environment. I don't see SL as a replacement for Traveller...merely a very interesting enhancement to gameplay.
With the client already open-sourced, and Second Life free to join and explore, I've wondered why more Traveller RPer's haven't established a presence there like the WOD/Vampire/Fantasy crowd has.
If you're ever in-world...IM Archer Braun...we'll do lunch.
 
I think the WOD/Vampire/Fantasy are established LARP genres - in the real world, dress up and act. Note that they're low tech - characters are generally walking, so confined to a small geographic area. Going places isn't involved. Trading isn't involved. Large vehicles aren't involved. Technology isn't involved.

The basic Traveller scenario is a bunch of folks traipsing around on a starship from world to world, and doing some exploring/trading when they get there... and often ending up on the wrong side of someone's laws where a vehicle chase ensues with lots of gunfire. At least, reading the rule books, it certainly seems heavily biased in that direction.


Sure, LARPing the 7 days in jumpspace could be done, but the rest... I'm not sure. It can be done, but it's not as easy.

SL allows you to extend LARPing, but actually crafting the whole adventure as a sim with vehicles would take a long time. I don't imagine most GMs have the time or money to dedicate to such a thing.

I think SL, at the moment, is best suited to being a virtual table around which you sit and roll the dice, like a glorified GRIP system. With voice chat (in beta now) it becomes an even better collaborative space. (Upcoming features like HTML-on-a-Prim will help - you can embed my map site on a surface in the world!)

However, a few years on, I could see something like a "Stellar Reaches Sim" where the feature adventure of the issue is recreated and players can book time in it. Having SL capable of hosting these sort of RP sandboxes is something I'm passionate about. (I spent a long time on non-combat role playing MUDs many moons ago.)

I haven't gotten into LARPing myself, or even COTI-style role play, so I'm not the best advocate for that end of things myself. The way these things evolve usually surprise everyone.

Scarecrow: I can't possibly take credit for creating SL as I'm a relative late comer. I certainly help keep it going and evolving, though! You'll see my posts on blog.secondlife.com fairly often.
 
Originally posted by Joshua Bell:
[QB] I think the WOD/Vampire/Fantasy are established LARP genres - in the real world, dress up and act. Note that they're low tech - characters are generally walking, so confined to a small geographic area. Going places isn't involved. Trading isn't involved. Large vehicles aren't involved. Technology isn't involved.

Sure, LARPing the 7 days in jumpspace could be done, but the rest... I'm not sure. It can be done, but it's not as easy.
Click to expand...
Hmm - at least the Star Wars and Star Trek LARPs I have heard of manage to play on starships, complete with "away missions" on the planetary surface. Of course it takes some effort to create more or less convincing props to help simulating a world in the game. Of course some things will be nearly impossible to recreate, still requiring "telling" (being told what happens by an offplay narrator). The less telling - the more immersive the game.

Some impressions from a StarTrek LARP campaign:
Bridge
bridge during battle
Interactive mainscreen
MedLab
lab
briefing room
engine room

And there are several Star Wars LARPs as well. So yes, it is possible to play SciFi LARPs - be it Serenity, Star Wars, Fading Suns, StarTrek, Cyberpunk, PostApocalyptic, Western or something completely different. You can play 'inside a space station', aboard a large ship and a small craft - or on planetary surfaces. You will have to choose the scenario carefully and You will have to prepare much - usually a LARP lasts about one weekend. So one could prepare the inside of a starship and play what happens from the evening of day 5 (Friday) to the exit from jumpspace on day 7 (Sunday) for example. Or the ship is present at a class D spaceport and will have to stay for a few days due to neccessary repairs (so there is a in game reason the players do not simply fly off). There have been scandinavian LARPs that took place inside a real submarine (a museum) or a closed shelter while "the war" was going on outside, complete with subtle but enervating sound effects.

SL allows you to extend LARPing, but actually crafting the whole adventure as a sim with vehicles would take a long time. I don't imagine most GMs have the time or money to dedicate to such a thing.
Click to expand...
There are several RP areas - some fantasy, some SciFi. At least two large StarTrek communities with a Klingon Bird of Prey and a Defiant to play in, not to mention the Holodeck. There is a Serenity - and probably much more I did not yet find.
All You'd need is an area where one could place a starship - so at least some adventures could take place inside it. Add a generic StarPort and You have a nice area to start with. Planetary exploration might get difficult, though. Make the game area accessible by listed members of a specific group during play, turning off scripts and such when no games take place. The montly rent for the area could be paid for by voluntary gifts of those playing, f.e. - works with larger groups I have heard.

So yes, RPing in SL seems possible. It adds another dimension to other chatroom-based gaming sessions, one can actually see (if the objects have been created) what the GM tries to describe. But yes: it takes preparation and quite some effort. I did not really create an object yet in Second Life - and customized textures are far beyond my current abilites (actually, I was soooo glad that I managed to find out how to add items to a different slot on the body and how to move them in their position...). A Forum might help organizing the things one needs to build, managing the different groups and characters and helping with specific questions about "how things are done travelleresque-y in Second Life".

It could be a nice experience - but it would take time, effort - and money to a certain extent.

Rraurgrimm, aka. Rraurgrimm Wilder in SL (usually online during the German evening hours (PST/SL-time +8h), sometimes on weekends).
 
Traveller more than any other SFRPG is condusive to LARPing because of its miminalist aesthetic. I think too many people before Firefly got caught up the in Whizbang effects of Star Wars and got scared off. Whereas, Science Fiction has always been about story. I could see any number of CT adventures done in abandoned or those nightcycle buildings (use very high during the day, abandoned at night).

Furthermore, with the relative abundance of SF/LARPing equipment now coming onto the market, there is no reason why it cannot be mixed in. I could see a camping trip easily turned into a LARPing experience with the final confrontation with the villians of the piece taking place in a paintball arena and easily call it Traveller. We got our ATVs, canoes and other assorted watercraft, places of mystery, etc. perfect...now only to find the players...
 
Originally posted by kafka47:
Traveller more than any other SFRPG is condusive to LARPing because of its miminalist aesthetic.
Click to expand...
FWIW, Traveller LARPs were being run at conventions in Australia in the early 80s. About 25 years ago, now!

They were pretty minimalist on the props, but still managed to consistently draw hundreds of players, year after year.

As you can imagine, terrific fun.

Basically, they were run in a large building. This same building was a starship one year, and an underwater city the next.

Too easy.

Incidentally, the main function of starships in Traveller is to act as a "magic box", which allows the PCs to move from the scene of one adventure to the scene of another. That's their main function, despite the occasional scenarios set upon ships. They're kind of like an elevator.
 
a few years back I worked on a contact LARP (thats the sort where you can nerf or actually contact another player with something, as opposed to non-contact like WW or Vampire) as a staff /plot writer that we based heavily on Traveller/Firefly.

The settings were great because aside from costumes ( which the players were great with) the setting allowed for low tech environments. Using group camps and a large paintball field we had weekenders - the group camps being towns on the "distant colony planet" and the paintball field being a primitive campsite used by explorerrs.

we used nerf guns and airsoft for the gunlike weaponry - airsoft was used for lasers and regular firearns, while nerfs were blasters.The nerfers were very high damage to reflect and balance that a nerf gun requires a LOT more proximity than any airsoft rifle, although one of our girls was an engineering student and modified her hand pumped nerf gun somehow to achieve nearly a thirty yard range.Pretty accurate, too, when there was no real wind to speak of.

This made for interesting combat - several folks modified starwars lightsabers into nerf swords (gotta have lightsabers, its a moral imperative)and much fun was had with these, along with the usual compliment of nerf swords, daggers and whatnnot.

Psionics were represented by either RP or the physical affects by the old LARP standby of packets, and don't laugh - some of the verteran larpers can throw a packet farther and more accurately than a baseball.

It wasn't all shootem up, either. The place was a Hive Of Scum And Villainy, with intrigue, dirty deals,political machinations and a group of around fifty players perfectly willing to fight each other over the priveldge of screwing over the other faction - There were Imperials in to explore, a small batch of Zho expatriates, several criminal enterprises centering around smuggling and off planet black marketeering and a group of five players that were eco-extremists attempting to prevent the despoiling of the planet by the colonies owning corporation of SuSag, which was there to farm the planet for anagathics components.

While the players tended to band together ( the traveller party or crew dynamic like Firefly proved to be common and was entirely unpromoted by the staff) most of the players ended up shaking into these groups with a few notables playing as unallied loners.

Practically speaking one had to always wear eyeprotection ( because of the projectile toys) but this was no problem , as the "planet" had a tainted and thin atmosphere and if a wandering referee caught you without your facemask(respirator) he "killed" the player on the spot, of anoxia and atmo contamination. Inside was ok, but the building were kept combat restricted for safety, and the few building that were combat allowed were assumed to be unpressurised or strictly " declared combat" ( you have to warn the other players that there will be a fight, usually in the form of alrms and what not, so they can don safety gear. Plus, if you wanted to stay in a combat active building, you didnt have to have your mask but DID have to wear eye protection at all times)

Outside the buildings, anything goes and often did, ambush being a favored tactic as well as wandering monsters and enemy players adding to the excitement.

Players ranged from teenagers to the oldest being his early sixties, the average being mid wtwenty or so.

Since the environemt was hi-tech SF ( as opposed to a fantasy larp, say) the players frequently had communication with each other by radio, and several had night vision. Cellphones were popular comms as well ( most folks having free weekend minutes ) and this changes the ingame dynamic considerably from the average fantasy larp. Several times the plot team allowed the players the fun of decoding intercepted enemy comm traffic, and more than once an ambush by bad guys was thwarted when a player called on the community radio net a 911.

Player dynamic was brisk - Lindsey(Gabrielle "Gadget" Gambrell in game, or GG), our girl engineer, found her mods to the nerf guns popular and had abrisk ingame buisness going, selling them to other players, while the Zhos had a good time RPing the dynamics of a small minority of potential enemies that were in the same fix as the town and gradually came to be accepted.

We even had a bunch of players that were all in characater family, who ran the small mom and pop resurant/tavern/bar ( non alchoholic, of course) that everyone wound up eating at in the game, generally clearing 600 dollars real every game.

The colony, fractuos as it was often pulled topgether against enemies, such as the time a rogue slaver ship hit the oputskirts of the colony , kidnapping several players,or the time a team of bounty hunters paid by SuSag came to town to collect one of the Pillars Of The Community for ecoterrorism.

The game played for just under twenty fout months, usually in the summer ( a season was eight months March thru October) untill most of the staff graduated.

We would have gone longer, but were sunk by the loss of core staff to RL, graduation of college (where upon they moved away or back home, essentially) and the loss of our primary sites at the group camps by being outbid by a local scout troop on one side and a NERO group ( a nationwide chain of franchised fantasy LARPs) on the other.

But while it ran, we had a blast and I like to think we did a good job, as evidenced by starting with ten players and ending up with nearly 90 our last season ( maxing the camps capacity) and as it was a paid event they voted with their dollars - so I suppose dthey enjoyed it, as almost all were repeat buisness!

All in all, fun was had by all!
 
Hi,

I am the person that Scarecrow mentioned, that's building a Type-S in Second Life. No, the interior doesn't fit into the exterior, and no, I didn't give up.
I've got an exterior, used as set dressing to work around, and I'll be doing a separate interior, big enough to play in, that you can just teleport to. I know it's a cheat, but it's what's needed because of the design.

I've also done two other ships -- the Golfball merchanter and my own Scrutiny (a Type-S scout in the 100 ton Golfball hull).

As for Traveller in Second Life, I've been working on that, too, with a very talented scripter. We weren't planning on mentioning it here yet, but since you're discussing it, I can't resist.


I don't want to go into too much detail, but let me make a few comments about what we're doing.

First, a basic account for Second Life is free. And I'm spending a lot of time finding/building free items to equip starting characters. Our goal is to allow people who are interested to come into the game and play without having to pay *anything*. If you enjoy it and want to start spending money on the game, that's fine. But I don't want to require it. About the only cost we can think of right now is for the Traveller books. And if you have a friend that already owns them, you can borrow them and save that cost.

Second. This is a big issue, I hope it doesn't upset people, but we went with T20 instead of Classic Traveller. The reason for this is, we wanted to have as broad an appeal as possible, and hope to set up RPGs for some of the other games out there. (I'm been pushing for Call of Cthulhu to be the second game we do. We'll see.) Along with this, we're trying to stay as close to the T20 rules as we can, instead of allowing our own house rules to creep in. There have been some modifications because of the environment, but as much as we can, we want people to be familiar with the rules we're doing.

Third, we're not doing it as a "twitch" based system. I.e., in combat, you don't have to run around clicking the mouse button. We have HUDs set up, with a referee overseeing the game, and it will be turn based. Players will take their actions in turn, shooting, talking, running, whatever. We chose this for a couple of reasons. First, we're getting too old to be doing first person shooter stuff. Second, there are a lot of great first person shooters, and we didn't want to reinvent them. Third, by going turn based, we hope to be immune to lag, which has been a problem in some of the other combat sims. And finally, by keeping the game self-contained within the HUDs, we hope to be able to use any of the nice builds within Second Life to play in. Even combat shouldn't affect anybody not playing (and they might not even notice if we do this right). Any of the scripted weapons within the games won't actually need to use their scripts, they'll just be for show. And not necessary, since I'm building up what weapons I can't find for free.

Maybe someday, we'll get to the point where we can have a full Traveller sim. For now, we're keeping things small, and hope to run scenarios where we can. We've got a few small plots of land we can set up on.

We want to make this a Traveller experience, so we're working hard to keep the flavor. It's sort of like a mixture of desktop play and LARPing. We've begun testing the scripted HUDs, and are pleased with the results. There's still lots of work to do. But if anybody is interested in checking out what's going on, there's a "Traveller in Second Life" group, and my avatar name is Avery Gladstone. I'd be happy to chat with anybody about this project.

There. I hope I haven't said too much.
I look forward to hearing your responses to this.
 
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