Ship Designs from Star Trek

[Brian Blank]

Has anyone ever tried to work any of the Star Trek ship designs into Traveller? DS-9's Defiant and the Delta Flyer look like good candidates to fit into the Traveller Universe.

I was thumbing through my DS-9 tech manual and trying to come up with CT stats for the Defiant. From the the stats I have (170.68x134.11x30.1) she displaces almost 49,000 dtons if i have my math right but that seems too big. From the deckplans she looks more like 4000 dtons.

The type 10 shuttle works out to about 14 dtons ( about right for a Gig) and the shuttlepod a whopping 2dtons ( got to be a grav vehicle)

Any ideas would be welcome. Then I'll post what I come up with for the group .

Thanks

........................................................................................................"In Space No One can hear you scream the Battle Cry of The United States Marines" - R. Lee Ermey -Space:Above and Beyond

 

[hunter]

I get about 51,000 tons at 13.5 cubic meters per dton. Yeah that does sound a bit off. Are you sure those measurements are in meters? If that is size in feet you get around 567 tons.

*slightly off-tangent*

What surprised me (though it shouldn't have) was when I realized that Traveller Jump drives are as fast as a ST ship at warp 5-8 (if I remember correctly, I have the figures running around somehwere).

 

[aramis]

Which scale, Hunter?

Tech Manual Vc=Wf^3, Fandom TNG Vc=Wf^4, or the Vc=Wf^(3.3+((-log10(10-Wf)+1)*(-log10(10-Wf)/2)*0.2)) from the TNG Tech Manual?

J1 is 3.26*52.5 C, or about 170 LY/Y... so roughly Jn*170 C
TM Wf 5 is 125C, 6 is 216, 8 is516, 10 is 1000...
Fandom TNG is WF3=81C, WF4=256C, WF5=625C, 6=1296C
TNG TM WF4=101.6, WF5=213.7, WF 6=392.5, WF7=656.1, 8=1024. (rounded to nearest 10/th)

So J3 is faster than Classic warp 8...

The big difference is sustainability, at which point we cut Jdrives to about 120C per JN for XBoat-style routes, and 90C for merchant routes.. so it's more like WF4-8 TNGTM scale, 3-6 Fandom scale, and 5-12 on the old TOS TM scale. Let's face it, for the short run, an Xboat outruns the NCC1701. For the long run, the BB's can keep up with the cruise speeds.

 

[hunter]

This is the quickest I could find, not sure which warp table I pulled it from, though from your figures it looks like TNG:

TABLE: Warp Drives vs Jump Drives
Jump	C	Warp
1	x170	4.5
2	x343	6
3	x525	6.5
4	x650	7
5	x850	7.5
6	x1024	8

There may be some massaging of the figures, etc., so don't expect an exact match or accuracy. Not even sure this one is correct, it's the first example I could find (I have worked on this in a couple of different documents)

 

[Badbru]

For TNE,
I did up a Bird of Prey as a 300 Dton TL-F ship.
Two parallel mount Particle accellerators for the wing tip disruptors and an auto loading, non standard size, three tube, missile bay for the torpedo launcher.
Black Globe generator worked for the cloaking device.
The players had to do without Transporters though.
It came to jump 3 and 6g with, from memory, nine crew, which is about the same as that recomended in the Star Trek 'verse I think.

My players loved that little ship. They tore a Broadsword to shreds with it in a couple of combat turns.

The only downside to the design was no small craft and very little cargo space as I recall.

 

[aramis]

Yup... it's TNG.

 

[Brian Blank]

Hi Hunter, Badbru, Aramis,

Thank you all. It's nice to be a part of this group.

I checked and the measurements I gave were in meters. What seems odd to me besides the size of the ship was the size of the shuttlepod, An air-raft takes up 4 dtons yet one of those comes out to only 2. I'm going to scale those up to 6 dtons, about the size of a grav speeder.

Btw, the Runabouts come out to about 125dtons. Just the right size for a Scout or even a Troop shuttle.

I love the idea of a Bird of Prey. You're right, no small craft and not much cargo. Maybe a good niche for that would be as a raider and think of the fun you could have taking the jump drives out and using them in an SDB role.

Another good design would be the Minerva from the Crusher Joe anime. I'd ballpark her at about 1200 dtons. Now if I can just find some images .


" Gee, I didn't know Hivers ate corn dogs. "

 

[Bob Weaver]

For TNE,
I did up a Bird of Prey as a 300 Dton TL-F ship.
Two parallel mount Particle accellerators for the wing tip disruptors and an auto loading, non standard size, three tube, missile bay for the torpedo launcher.
Black Globe generator worked for the cloaking device.
The players had to do without Transporters though.
It came to jump 3 and 6g with, from memory, nine crew, which is about the same as that recomended in the Star Trek 'verse I think.

My players loved that little ship. They tore a Broadsword to shreds with it in a couple of combat turns.

The only downside to the design was no small craft and very little cargo space as I recall.

How did you stat the PA guns for the Bird of Prey? Were you using Bk 2 or Bk 5 rules? I haven't seen any published rules on using PA guns in Bk 2 ship combat. All the same, I'm not surprised the Bird tore up the Broadsword. It's not a very combat-optimized design.

Cheers,

Bob W

 

[Badbru]

Like I said in the first line, it was for TNE.

I built it in Fire, Fusion, and Steel and the battles were using Brilliant Lances.

The PA's were not huge at all. From memory they were 100mj 5:100 10:100 20:25 40:12 weapons. You'd have to know TNE & BL to know what that means I guess. I actually own CT Bk 2 and Bk 5 but I've never used Bk 5 as I couldn't get past page one were it says ships don't use fuel and never could remember the ship code number strings that look like binary code. Been 20+ years since I've used Bk 2 also so I doubt I could convert anything for you. Sorry.

 

[Andrew Boulton]

LBB2 PAs are covered in JTAS 4 p19.

 

[pendragonman]

I actually own CT Bk 2 and Bk 5 but I've never used Bk 5 as I couldn't get past page one were it says ships don't use fuel and never could remember the ship code number strings that look like binary code. Been 20+ years since I've used Bk 2 also so I doubt I could convert anything for you. Sorry.

I am guessing that the "ships don't use fuel" comes from your interpretation of "Fuel consumption for maneuver drives is inconsequential, and is assumed to be part of the power plant consumption, regardless of the degree of maneuver undertaken."

If you understand TNE, then you understand the use of thruster plates. Which is saying the exact same thing as the quote from book 5. The actual thrust comes from the energy (MW) supplied to the plates, which comes from the power plant.

As to understanding the variable string, I fill out IN Form 3 on page 37. If you use that, it decodes the string for you.

 

[Tobias]

How did you stat the PA guns for the Bird of Prey? Were you using Bk 2 or Bk 5 rules? I haven't seen any published rules on using PA guns in Bk 2 ship combat. All the same, I'm not surprised the Bird tore up the Broadsword. It's not a very combat-optimized design.

Cheers,

Bob W

One Bk 5 Bird of Prey along the same lines, coming up. Had to limit it to Jump-2 in order to fit on all the stuff, however. Also note that the "canonical" BoP would be larger - 110 meters seems to be a generally accepted length, for which a ship of ~3000 tons would fit. However, a length of ~50 meters is also considered to be possible by some Trekkies, for which the 300 tons fit just fine.

*******************************************************
Ship: Bird of Prey
Class: Bird of Prey
Type: Cruiser
Architect: The Klingon Empire
Tech Level: 15

USP
C-3126E92-300010-00303-0 MCr 784.280 300 Tons
Bat Bear 1 1 Crew: 13
Bat 1 1 TL: 15

Cargo: 3.000 Fuel: 102.000 EP: 42.000 Agility: 6
Fuel Treatment: Fuel Scoops and On Board Fuel Purification

Architects Fee: MCr 7.843 Cost in Quantity: MCr 627.424


Detailed Description

HULL
300.000 tons standard, 4,200.000 cubic meters, Needle/Wedge Configuration

CREW
Pilot, Navigator, 3 Engineers, Medic, 6 Gunners

ENGINEERING
Jump-2, 6G Manuever, Power plant-14, 42.000 EP, Agility 6

AVIONICS
Bridge, Model/9 Computer

HARDPOINTS
3 Hardpoints

ARMAMENT
1 Triple Missile Turret organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3), 2 Particle Accelerator Turrets organised into 1 Battery (Factor-3)

DEFENCES
Black Globe (Factor-1) with 3.000 tons of capacitors (storing 108.000 energy points), Armoured Hull (Factor-3)

CRAFT
None

FUEL
102.000 Tons Fuel (2 parsecs jump and 28 days endurance)
On Board Fuel Scoops, On Board Fuel Purification Plant

MISCELLANEOUS
7.0 Staterooms, 3.000 Tons Cargo

USER DEFINED COMPONENTS
None

COST
MCr 792.123 Singly (incl. Architects fees of MCr 7.843), MCr 627.424 in Quantity

CONSTRUCTION TIME
71 Weeks Singly, 57 Weeks in Quantity
********************************************************

Particle Accelerators can basically used as Lasers, with a +2 hit DM, according to the JTAS article. As an alternative suggestion, if you have JTAS 21 (Special Supplement: Missiles), I would only give them +1, but have them roll for damage twice: Once on the normal table, and once on the radiation damage table.

 

[Gadrin]

Has anyone ever tried to work any of the Star Trek ship designs into Traveller? DS-9's Defiant and the Delta Flyer look like good candidates to fit into the Traveller Universe.

I was thumbing through my DS-9 tech manual and trying to come up with CT stats for the Defiant. From the the stats I have (170.68x134.11x30.1) she displaces almost 49,000 dtons if i have my math right but that seems too big. From the deckplans she looks more like 4000 dtons.

The type 10 shuttle works out to about 14 dtons ( about right for a Gig) and the shuttlepod a whopping 2dtons ( got to be a grav vehicle)

Any ideas would be welcome. Then I'll post what I come up with for the group .

Thanks

........................................................................................................"In Space No One can hear you scream the Battle Cry of The United States Marines" - R. Lee Ermey -Space:Above and Beyond

5,000 tons sounds about what I came up with, the Delta Flyer or one of the DS9 runabouts almost equates with a 100-ton scout, so I'd lean in that direction, esp since the Runabout has a modular component feature. Perhaps something like a "jump cutter".

 

[Bob Weaver]

Tobias, thanks for the ship stats. I'm still a little stuck though. I've got JTAS 1-24 on CDRom, but can't seem to locate the article to which you refer. I also have the Missiles supplement so I can use the rad table there. It's funny but on the big screen, the Bird of Prey, in fact all Star Trek ships, look a lot bigger than what I imagine Traveller starships to look. Oh well.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Tobias]

Tobias, thanks for the ship stats. I'm still a little stuck though. I've got JTAS 1-24 on CDRom, but can't seem to locate the article to which you refer.

You're welcome.
In JTAS 4, there is an article on the Gazelle class. At the end of the article, under the heading of "The Barbettes", there is a short explanation on how the PA Barbettes of the Gazelle work in Book 2 combat. It's page 19 of issue 4.

It's funny but on the big screen, the Bird of Prey, in fact all Star Trek ships, look a lot bigger than what I imagine Traveller starships to look.

The BoP is...somewhat size-inconsistant. Look at this to get an idea just how much. I took the low end of the scale, because a) Badbru used the same size, b) it makes for a reasonable PC-scale vessel and c) it allows for the "canonical" crew complement of a dozen or so.

P.S.: But I can also post a 3000-ton version based on the 110m length assumption, if you want it.

 

[Gadrin]

for those of you wanting nice deckplans for Enterprise, give this a try.

http://www.waxingmoondesign.com/NX01Printable.html

 

[beeber]

great thread, folks!

thanks for that BoP article, tobias! i felt something was weird about the scaling in ST III/IV.

 

[Scarecrow]

A few years back I started a project to build 1:1 scale block models of various celebrity starships to get a fairly accurate idea of what they translated into in Traveller dTonnage (driven by the fact I couldn't believe that the Millenium Falcon was 200 dTons).
I posted the full results (or at least, as far as I'd gotten) in a thread a long, long time ago, but here are the Trek stats:

Enterprise A - 305m - 251,924.92 cu M - 18,661 dTons
Enterprise D - 643m - 5.85 Mil cu M - 433,352.2 dTons
Federation Starbase - 3730m - 2966.8 mil cu M - 219.76 mil dTons

I have Klingons and Romulans on the list but haven't to date, gotten that far
Ship lengths taken from Jeff Russell's Starship Dimensions

EDIT

Using this model:



Scaled to 23.1m - Studio MAX's volume calculator gives me a volume of fractionally under 575 cubic metres. Divided by 13.5 gives a grand total of 42.6 dTons for the Runabout. So it's pretty much a 50 dTon launch or ship's boat.

If I get time I'll do the Defiant and Bird of Prey...

Crow

 

[Scarecrow]

Okay, then...

I knocked out this Bird of Prey model:



It's quite a rough block model considering how complex the shape of the BoP is - but I think it's accurate enough for our purposes.

Scaled to 109m - because screen discrepancies and Next Gen silliness aside, that's the length it's meant to be - and measured using Studio MAX's volume measuring tool, it comes out at just over 38,600 cubic metres. Which divided by 13.5 gives us 2859.26 dTons - let's call it 2860 dTons.

Seperated into elements, the main body, neck and head is just over 19,500 cubic metres or 1444 dTons

The wings including the hulking great hinge (or shoulder) elements is 17,800 cubic metres or 1318 dTons

..and the guns are 1300 cubic metres or a fraction over 96 dTons

I'll try an do the Defiant tomorrow, if I have time.

Crow

PS - I built the model using the plans on The Top of this Page

 

[aramis]

Crow:

13.5m³ is only used in MT; CT (Striker), TNE (FF&S), T4 (FF&S 2), and T20 all use 14m³
(GT uses 500cuft...)

Which gives 2757Td round off to 2760 for the BoP
40 Td for the runabout
17995 for Ent A