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Calculating Ship Construction times in TNE- Coalition Example

Liam Devlin

SOC-14 5K
Based on previous topics off tne-ist, and to be of service to questions raised in TNE forum down below!


SHIP Construction Times in New Era
We must remember that TCS & Book 5 [are these the same? I have no copies of either if that’s the case] have formulae for computing Pre-Final war Ship production. But in either case this assumes High automation [Robots!!! Ai Virus anyone??] in their formulae. I’ve adapted these tonnage times into MTU with the following provisions to “speed” things up. Another person once asked if there was a modifier for “In” worlds.

The RC has to use the double labor [se below] due to the lack of High automation [AN-37 Star Meks, various other robots etc]; therefore all the ship completion times start with the 40% reduction in time [displayed in weeks]. The penalty for first run vehicles remains the same [If you have no prototype, everything is from the ground up, no getting around that problem]. Once the PT –ship/craft/module is built [yes this applies to B-class SY as well], everything becomes faster. As I have seen [and agreed to] in Freelance Traveller, upgradeable hulls of a conventional size are utilized in articles by Ken Pick.
True this is CT-HG stuff, but the same should hold true in TNE shipyard concepts. Standardized hulls, with changes as a planetary navy upgrades with technology. The RC Auroran Clipper II-III series is a Standardized 600dtn hull, with engines capable of moving 2080 ktns [maximum]. What gets upgraded? The Jump engines of course! The RC wasn’t interested in building lots of different ships, but standardizing the ones they wanted [The Clipper series spawns the Fusilier-Lancer-Belladonnas for example, only they’re AF not USL open designs.]. And so on. The Leviathan’s are probably variants along the same lines of the Maggart Class IV clipper, as the previous ships are.

MY earlier article on Tonnage produced came out about right figuring 80,000 dtns an A- or B-class yard could do based solely on population [minimum UWP of 4 tens of thousands]. So Aubaine & Oriflamme have 80ktons of gross tonnage per Starport [save for the small on one of Aubaine’s moons]. Half of which can be used for Main-tenance, half for production [or variable thereof]. PoT bears me out closely, as 78,800 dtns roughly of ships are underway as of 001-1201 on Aubaine alone. [The Aubani Navy Yard has only 80ktn Mtce. capability in my estimation; Standard & KeeEEka Strongwall Yards are the movers and shakers here. What we don’t know is were all the hulls started at the same time, or in staggered times.
The caveat with that comes in when we were rolling up how many ships existed in the RC [Jump or non jump capable doesn’t matter], and which planets had them. Then we cross the frontier of the question, how soon do the new ships become available during the campaign, as the conflicts with Solee & Promise main versus Vampire Hwy loom upon us.
With the rules for figuring these out on 97-99 PoT, there are 1500 personnel per 1ktn ship to crew/provide/maintain such a ship/boat/monitor, like wise 500 personnel per a Small Space ship/ craft/ SDB. Once TL & Available starport is figured in, you get the manpower for that Planet’s “Space Navy” [many of whom in the Wilds are merely armed merchant craft].
Using those figures, [TL & Starport] Aubaine had 10x large space combatants [1 of which is the 50-75ktn Kulkulcan/ANV Aubaine]; 4x are Mr. Lewis Roberts Griffen-class SDBs., leaving five to detail [Though I offer the existence of the Xbt tenders converted to Oases class fuellers for the Jump-Calibration/refueling stations of Gobi & Sahara as another possible four 1kton ships]. Aubaine has 30 [10x 3, or 500 into 1500] smaller combatants, [4+ x Manticores, several Dragon/Shukugans awaiting conversion, & Chimera class SDBs, as well as 6x Victrix ships [pp36-37PoT] Mirablis-V**, Coral Sea-V, Jayhawk-V, Sulieman –V, Kelley-V, & Schalli-V.]. Aubaine’s System Navy Also has 12x MMS scouts, six of which were seconded to RCES/RCN. [RCS Alarm, Nightwatcher, Defiant Arms, Rawalapindi, & two others], eight MMScouts to name remaining. Total personnel-30, 000. [15k’s in large, 15 ktns in small ships]. ]. **MFU or lost in service
Oriflamme has 8x Large [TL-9 mostly], 4x Galahad Monitors [1ktn], and four relic freighters [jump capable]; & 24x small space combatants [including Winged Fury & Winged Vengeance, a pair of EMMC 600dtn Bastien/Stellar Liners, and four Victrix ships [pp36-37 PoT—Kukulcan-V**, Bellerphon-V, & Cymbelline-V, Valeria-V**], of several Archangel SDB’s [enough to cover the three GGs in system effectively, say 12, [4 per GG]; leaving six to be detailed in. Total men in service: 24,000 [12ks in large/ 12ks in small ships]. [Using B-class port & TL-9 penalties pp97-99 PoT]. **MFU or lost in service
Fija has 16,000 personnel [Thus 5 large/ 17 small ships], many of which are armed freighters of Transstar*[BARD].
Nike Nimbus has 12,000 personnel in their “space navy” [4x Large/12 small ships]
Baldur has 8,000 personnel [4 large/ 4 small—these former ships being the BCS Revival & BCS Resurrection 20ktn Colony ships, the other two are the BCS Cumulus [a Wilds converted Tukera 3ktn liner] & an ex Imperiallines Frontier Transport [2ktons] {World tamers Book}; four to detail, probably armed merchants also.
Lucifer, has with its starport & TL, 6000 personnel, or two large, 6 small ships. [One of the larger was the LMS Frankenstein a 1kton Starhauler; one of the smaller was the 600dton Bastien-class liner LMS Space Witch]. Armed merchant craft here also.
These alone total 33 large vessels & 89 smaller ones, as has been shown the bulk of them are not always jump-capable.
But going further with PoT, if force is 5000 or less, all are small ships & armed merchant craft…
Trybec and Aurora, Both TL-B, with B-ports [penalty], 3000 personnel each.
Aurora-- This can be construed as either six small ships or one large, and three small. Pp36-37 listed four Victrix ships as from Aurora at the time of the RC formation [mid-late 1200]—RCS Norfolk-V, Brannamaar-V, Muan Gwi-V**, & Ember-V**--meaning two small ships to detail.
Trybec is noted for two Victrix ships, Riggins –V & Marathon-V. It also owned DLS Reine Soleil** [Donosev Survey ship], DLS Ra**, DLS Dammerlicht** [A2 Far traders]& DLS Eos** [Converted Bastien Liner]. All six accounted for here.
Eos is the last system [C-port/TL-A] to have a Space force numbering in the thousands. By the Pp97-99 data & its population, this comes to 2,000 personnel, being less than 5,000 personnel; all are [were] armed merchants, [Like the DLS Horus**]. Three to detail.
Now the Victrix ships have been seconded to the RCES-RCN for operations, this deprives the above-mentioned systems of vessels to defend themselves with in-system. Which makes good sense for the ATEF program [See BARD].
Three of the DLS ships were launched by Ra, space force 1,500 [three small ships] and were lost she is without insystem ships now [DLS Balder, DLS Brilliant, & DLS Dawn**].
Of note and in question from whom to subtract from for “Initial 001-1201 space forces, are the DLS Aube, DLS Apollo, DLS Aurora, as well as the 11x DL Expeditionary Cruisers that went out in search of the missing twelve [Four of which of these were lost or MFU as well], and the original ownership of the 4x RC Courier ships [Crepuscule, Vivid, Fairfax, and Balthasar-Victrix].
None of the Cm-Boneyard worlds have any space navy forces.
Now PoT makes no distinguishing remarks between SDBs or armed merchants that are nonjump-capable used as same for a Wilds planet that has a viable space force. Hence if all the Dawn league ships that launched from Trybec were hers, she’d be next to if not utterly defenseless, and the formulae for Trybec then is flawed with 2x Victrixes and six armed merchant craft. [Should have been 8000 personnel then]. Still she’s in bad shape, as Eos is, as is Ra.
Now counting the Prototype Aurora-I [ex Boquist/ now TSS Kether Friedmann], there are as of 001-1201, 3x Class II clippers [RCS Eos, Apollo, & Aube] & 2x Class III Clippers [RCS Thunderchild & Immanuel Kant].
Which leads us to when were the hulls laid down, and ships completed & the rest of the Shipbuilding question. Because as of 001-1201 campaign beginning, nearly 80,000dtons of new ships are underway across the RC [78.8ktons at Aubaine’s yards alone] To refresh from previous post:

Of these 30,600 dtons is built by KeeEEka Strongwall SY, Max size ship built 6ktons [Lancer Fusilier class ships]. 4x 30,600 ktons = 122,400 employees [primarily Schalli].

Of the remaining 48,450 dtons was done by Standard Astrotronics SY. Max size ship built: 6,250 dtons [Belladonna class]. 4x 48,450 ktons = 193,800 employees. [Primarily, human]

And from the BARD papers, Delgado & Dushgin's smaller A-class yard on Aubaine's moon [Building 200 dton hulls of starships max hull sz + 400 dton max sized spacecraft hulls = 600dtons x 4= 2400 dtons per annum. [800 of starships/ 1600 spacecraft]. 4 x 2,400dtons [gross tonnage per annum] = 19,200 employees, primarily human.
[Given that 1 High automation robot does the work of four humans as a rule of thumb]*--see below

New Chart for RC ship/spacecraft/module [MCP] production
Tons Prototypes x2 labor [-40%]* 2nd production+[-40%]**
50tn< 24 weeks 15.4 weeks 9.2 weeks
100tn 40 weeks 24 weeks 15.4 weeks
200tn 48 weeks 28 weeks 17.2 weeks
400tn 64 weeks 38.5 weeks 23 weeks
600tn 96 weeks 57.8 weeks 34 weeks [Class II & III Clippers]
800tn 112 weeks 67.2 weeks 40.3 weeks [Class IV Clippers]
1ktn 120 weeks 72 weeks 43.2 weeks
2ktn 126 weeks 75.6 weeks 45.4 weeks
3ktn 132 weeks 80 weeks 47.5 weeks
4ktns 138 weeks 83.8 weeks 50.3 weeks
5ktn 144 weeks. 86.4weeks 52 weeks [1 Terran Year]

As the next category up is 10ktns, refer to closest tonnage for the Belladonna-Lancer Fusilier ships [6ktn range] as if 5kton ship.
Other modifiers:

1] As spending funds is crucial to the RCSA, the 10% speed modifier for increasing spending [Mcr cost divided by weeks] per week is kept. [“If you paid extra you got a 10% speed increase for every 10% of the weekly cost you paid extra”]. This can also by frugal GMs be used as a negative modifier!!! [Adding time on to the ship’s completion].

2] TL modifier + 2% speed increase for every TL above 7 of the planet [This figures in heavy usage of low-automation machinery/infrastructure, ie manned robotics/ dumbots, etc beginning with +2% at TL-8. [Aubaine has +10%, for example, Aurora has +08%, Oriflamme has +04%, and so forth]

3] Starport infrastructure modifier: A = +15% speed modifier [in weeks]; B = +10% speed modifier; C = +05% speed modifier.

Final analysis Aubaine: [Standard Astrotronics SY. Max size ship built: 6,250 dtons [Belladonna class]. 4x 48,450 ktons = 193,800 employees. [Primarily, human]

Example A:
Hull # 10083 RCS Ra [A-III Clipper, base hull 600dtn] begun in 001-1201. [X2 labor+ 2nd production+ TL modifier [12= +10%]+ Starport [A = +15%] =. 25 weeks and a few days, barring lack of fundage, due for shakedown 14-VI-1201 & Module fittings. Or 1x Clipper-III hull in 175 days/ 5.5 months, awaiting crew & missions modules.

Example B:
Hull # 10084 RCS Helios [A-III clipper, base hull 600dtn] begun 001-1201, Bourgund SY [X2 labor+ 2nd production+TL Modifier [9 = +04%]+ Starport modifier [B = +10%] = 29.5 weeks. [Not including shipping & handling to Bourgund from Aubaine as a “kit” in weeks, mind you, at J-2 or J-3! Finished 21-VII-1201.

Example C:
Hull #10095 RCNS Maggart, begun 001-1201. [Prototype + X2 labor [+40%] + TL-Modifier [12 = +10%]+ Starport Modifier [A = +15%] = 51.6 weeks, nearly a year, or on 26-XII-1201. Merry Christmas, SG!
Whereas hull # 10096 RCS Karlsruhe, will be done 40% faster, in 30 weeks.

Example D:
Hull # NA RCS Belladonna begun 001-1201[Prototype] 6.25 Ktns [IMTU, she’s the civilian model of the Lancer-Fusilier Models, 6ktons each] + X2 Labor + TL Mod + Starport Mod = 68 weeks, completed in 21-IV-1202, without further spending [I increased spending to have the ship ready in march [III-1202] & launched the trip to Sufren 01-IV-1202, btw IMTU.
Slainte!
Liam Devlin
 
A Synopsis of the above IM-TNE-U:

1.] All of the ships whose hulls were listed as "building" in PoT, should be completed no later than [NLT] the end of the summer/ beginning of fall of 1202. These include the new Fusilier/ Lancer-class ships, and the Leviathan-class .

2]the approximate 80ktns of production the RCSA worlds have is divided over two subsectors.

3] Without robots the old TCS model of tons per 1000 people increases to 10,000 people. The number of ships, tonnages given in PoT seem to bear this out.

4] with the advent of AI-Cyms as we have taken to calling them in the 1248 playtest forum, robot-AI's [ala Vampire Fleet examples] would reduce the number of organic employees needed in the Freedom League [RC successor state].

5] Thus with the Increased technology to Trybec & Oriflamme's SY's to A-class in mid-late 1202 [GDW OTU plans], those two SY's are able to increase output times, Not tonnages.

6] as a common sense measure IMTU, I upgraded all C-class SY's to B's In the RCSA worlds during this time period, based on targetted salvage from Boneyard/resource worlds/work colonies.

7] Under this plan, the RCSA by end of 1203 the necessary ships [just those outlined in PoT]to undertake the liberation of the planet of Promise along the Vampire Highway. And maintain patrols in the rapidly heating cold war with Solee.
 
SO for Mssr Badbru, the Targetted world of Dehrapur at TL-A & B-class SY once again restored, and with a Pop digit of at least its pre-collapse level, of 90K, ought to be able to produce space faring vessels of 900dtns in size [Jump drives not included!]x 4 [quarterly output] = 3600 dtns of spacecraft per year once its back online.

Employing 4x 3600 = 14,400 Spaceshipyard workers.
 
Sweet!

I don't have Trillion credit squadron but I thought the figure was one displacement tonne per 1000 head of pop thus 90 thousand would result in 90 Displacement tonne ships?? (anyone TCS owners?)

900 Disp tonne is better
Would this figure be with, or without Cym robot use? (I've mostly just skim read your previous Liam) Liked it all though thankyou.
 
Badbru<bows>
Your servant of the forum and the game, sir! That would be without Cym/ robot use, yes.
WITH them, one could return to the 1000 rule of TCS at prewar production outputs
1000 = then, 100dtn size vessels.

So at Prewar, Dehrapur was making up to 9ktn hulls.
 
Badbru

Think Liam's got confused

with 90K population your salvaged shipyard will be making 95tn if they have robots etc, without robots they will be down to 9dtnd.

Now either the world specialised in annual maintenance, with the occasional small craft build (probably to merchant lines or the starport authority)

or

it was a specialist shipyard colony, when we could reduce the number of population required per dtn of shipyard. Maybe by a factor of 10, giving a capacity of 900dtns

Cheers
Richard
 
Richard, Thankyou.
I don't actually own Trillion Credit Squadron but from an old Bard post on "Economics of the RC" I got the impression that the figure was:
One Displacement tonne per One Thousand people.
and came from that text.

I just bought HardTimes from Drivethru and with that and Astrogators guide to Diaspora, Dehrapur retained it's B Class right up until Virus. HardTimes even says at one point that it had Favoured Trade stutus with Margrets Factional Safe as it was on it's furtherest edge. ie the last good port before the wilds. HardTimes also says it actually underwent an economic upsurge as it's one of only four B class ports in the subsector and there's only one A Class past 1124.
Hence it became a sort of "Mecca" for free traders.

I'm going to go with small craft specialisation, specifically 50 Disp Tonne Modular Cutters and a 90 Disp Tonne Customs & Inspection System Defence Boat. But retain one or two slips for up to 200 Disp tonnes for free/far trader overhauls and rebuilds.
So going with some of Liams construction times numbers they should produce about 5 x 90Dt boats per year. With the option of building 2 x 200Dt boats per year concurrently.
 
The actual formula from TCS is

C = P x GM/1000

Where C = construction yard facility in tons
P = planetary population
GM = current government budget modifier (this can very from 0.5 to 1.5 depending on both the government type and whether it is a Peacetime or Wartime budget.

For example from the pre virus period the planet Alston/Banners 1932 A76699B-E M Hi 823 NA G0V M1V

Assuming a peactime budget

P = 8,000,000,000
GM = 1.15 (Peactime modifier for type 9 government)

Therefore C = 8,000,000,000 x 1.15/1000
= 8,000,000,000 x 0.00115
= 9,200,000 tons capacity

Using this formula on post virus Alston
A766A47-B M Cp Hi 123 AL

P = 10,000,000,000
GM = 1.45 (Wartime modifier for type 4 government)

Therefore C = 10,000,000,000 x 1.45/1000
= 10,000,000,000 x 0.00145
= 14,500,000 (note this is before automation is removed) Without automation this will become
1,450,000 tons (if it survives Alston is destined to become a major power in its region)

Alston's actual yard capacity is less than 60,000 tons at the moment and I am assuming that most of this capacity is being used to rebuild the destroyed/damaged slips. I am using no hard and fast rule for this, but if anyone has got one I would be interested in hearing it.
 
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