Ship your home to the stars

[Timerover51]

I don't think short-term LS is 40 man days. I think it's 4. But I get where you're coming from -- adding life support will be expensive!

My archetype is the "Model 217" (I'm almost positive I got that wrong) from JTAS. Unfolded it was 8 tons, I think. It included a workstation and computer (probably a Model/0), bunks for eight?, fresher, micro-kitchen, and airlock.

The LSP Modular Cutter in JTAS had a pressurized shelter module capable of supporting 8 people for several months at a cost of 4.5 Million Credits.

In JTAS 6, you have the Model 317 Pressurized Shelter in the Ship's Locker article.

The Model 317 Pressurized Shelter is intended to provide reasonable
comfort for eight persons for well over a two month stay.

Standing 7.5 meters square to a height of 3 meters, the construction is collapsible to 6 meters square with a height of 2 meters. For cargo hold transport, the shelter has a mass displacement of 6 tons.

It has rations for 800 man-days, and the price is 50,000 Credits without rations and personal equipment.

Both of these were designed by Marc Miller, so I am not sure why the very large disparity in price.

 

[aramis]

CT 2E has the prefab cabin and the "Advanced Base" (Bk 3, p 19)

Pre-Fabricated Cabin (6) Cr10,000. Modular unpressurized quarters for 6 persons. 2 by 6 by 6 meters. Can be carried in the hold of a starship. Weighs 4 tons.
Advanced Base (8) Cr50,000. Modular pressurized quarters for 6 persons, with
air lock and atmosphere recirculating system. 2 by 6 by 6 meters. Can be carried
in the hold of a starship. Weighs 6 tons.​

(bolding original)

2x6x6=72 m³ = 5 1/7 Td

I've always assumed that it expanded when deployed to at least a 13.5x13.5 m plus shape, and 3 m in the center when fully deployed Perhaps even a full 18x18 square.

Why? mostly, to prevent their use as additional steerage staterooms.

 

[aramis]

So that suggests that T5 life support is capable of supporting a 4dton volume for longer than four days. I reached for ACS to work up the figures quickly but perhaps that lifesupport is over engineered for spaceship use? Building the Container 'Home' in ThingMaker and using the Advanced Base and Underwater Shelter might be a better way to go.

And by TLH i can use the Atmospheric Sponge which supports the LS requirement of 100dtons for a year and only has a volume of 1KL

You can use the design values as flexible when you build...

... but once built, the specific ratios are going to be somewhat tailored for it's optimal.

But note: Short term probably lacks beds, shower facilities, and freezer space;

15 days Emergency is probably oxygen candles and day-packs of LiOH.

the Long Term and Standard both include fresher facilities (including shower) and some form of refrigeration and freezer. Long Term (180 day) is different than FF&S2's Indefinite at 20 tons... but probably uses microbiotia for CO2 capture and O2 release.

 

[aramis]

The LSP Modular Cutter in JTAS had a pressurized shelter module capable of supporting 8 people for several months at a cost of 4.5 Million Credits.

Both of these were designed by Marc Miller, so I am not sure why the very large disparity in price.

Probably because the cutter module is a 30 Td hull all its own, and fully rated for about 0.5 C in-system.

The LSP "advanced base" is rated for routine surface duty on airless worlds

 

[Reban]

What have you done to me?!!

I immediately picture these container homes springing up on all sorts of worlds as futuristic trailer parks! You'll see Fusion Plus(TM) units outside in place of propane tanks. Alien terrains but still recognizable especially with locally found rocks as walk liners, foot tall picket fences and strings of lights outside. Probably an air/raft up on blocks just because. Might explain those Population 1 worlds.

And we'll see if any world is capable of generating tornados spontaneously.

But do note that this is different to what sparked me off. The "trailer Park" is a semi-permanent settlement. Lots of those trailers may not be easily mobile and some may have permanent foundations or footings underneath. Just like that air/raft on blocks they ain't goin no where

What I'm imagining is another way to do Travellers without a spaceship.

But note: Short term probably lacks beds, shower facilities, and freezer space;

Under T5 ACS Life Support and accommodations are installed separately. I'm accounting for beds, showers and freezer space by installing a stateroom, fresher and galley as well as the LS.

15 days Emergency is probably oxygen candles and day-packs of LiOH.

Agreed. The Emergency Capsule that features this zero volume 15 day lifesupport for ten people is 1dton, so its a very basic storm shelter scenario where you poop in your vacc suit. But it illustrates that the design system is suggesting that Life Support that takes up no significant volume (i.e. its built into the walls/ceiling/floor) can support 4 to 15 days with a capacity of ten people.

the Long Term and Standard both include fresher facilities (including shower) and some form of refrigeration and freezer. Long Term (180 day) is different than FF&S2's Indefinite at 20 tons... but probably uses microbiotia for CO2 capture and O2 release.

Not under T5 ACS. Freshers are installed separately. The Life Support mechanism that provides a survivable environment is install under Starship Operations. While the freshers and medical support that makes it livable is installed as Payload along with the accomidation and cargo.

The thing thats missing from ACS is galley and consumable stores requirements which you're listing under freezer facilities.

Also I've just noticed that it should probably be on a per volume supported basis because as written I can support a million dton ship for four months, as long as I have no more that ten crew, with just 2dtons of LS and a 1 dton fresher. That screams stinky ship to me o:

 

[Reynard]

"What I'm imagining is another way to do Travellers without a spaceship."

And very interesting. I didn't mean you get stuck in one place. I was making light of Space Trailer Parks. Some may actually want to remain as they found the world to their liking. Many mobile home owners here and now and in Traveller however have the wanderlust, re-hitch and move. In the mean time they probably will start communities of similar minded people with permanent residents and the transients. Tell me that isn't as interesting as startown on a world.

 

[Reban]

No criticism. The trailer park and gypsy community concepts that are emerging in the thread are equally valid, although you can equally do them with a starship thats fitted out 'house boat' style.

Here's two little vignettes to illustrate the idea that started to form in my head when I watched the Youtube video:


Eneri O'Shanka. A five term veteran of the Imperial Marine Force, Master Sergeant O'Shanka retired with the intention of fishing every major river on every habitable planet in the sector. He's doing that while living in a 4dton Standard Shipping Container 'Home' built to his specifications. Inside the decor is simple and functional. Since he intends to use it on habitable worlds the life-support requirements are minimal and rather than an airlock there is a mudroom/porch. Having never married the clean squared away interior is set up for single living. Despite its simplicity Eneri says its a lot more luxurious than many of the billets he had in garrison or embarked aboard ship.

This kind of retirement doesn't come cheap so Master Sergeant O'Shanka (retd.) picks up one or two contracts each year working close protection. He's always in demand from the many former marines who work in the industry so he can choose contracts that take him close to the fishing. When he's working he sets the home computer to sleep mode, locks up the container and has it shipped to his next fishing destination or has it parked in long term storage at the local starport.

At the end of a contract body guarding some rich patron he deposits his pay and hires a cargo mover to drop his container on a riverbank somewhere and sets his xmail to the auto reply "gone fishin'".


Esther Ruddin is a craftswoman and an artist (2 terms Citizen 3 Terms Entertainer (Sculptor)). Esther makes holographic sculptures designed around geographical features, wrapping them in light and telling stories about the place the people and how they fit into the stellar community.

Esther has to see the places and meet the people she designs for so she travels with her husband Jack. It can take a couple of months to work up an installation so they live in a Container Home on site. Jack (Citizen 2 terms Computer) assists with the programming of the holographic equipment so a large part of their home is taken up with a holographic interface console running the design and control software.

The Ruddin's have a second ordinary container that carries all their projection equipment. Both the Home and equipment containers show the couple's artistic side by having a programmable wrap cover their surfaces. The wraps often depict Esther's latest artistic doodles making an unusual sight as they sit in the wilderness.

 

[Condottiere]

It comes down to either how much you want to spend system hopping, or how much you can afford to pay for system hopping.

 

[Quint]

Honestly, I'd already gone down this route when thinking about how my Imperial army sets up operating bases. The idea of prefab units that can simply be dropped via modular cutter (or other cargo small craft or starship) seemed to make far greater sense than trying to build anything past major earth moving and walls onsite.

D.

 

[whartung]

Honestly, I'd already gone down this route when thinking about how my Imperial army sets up operating bases. The idea of prefab units that can simply be dropped via modular cutter (or other cargo small craft or starship) seemed to make far greater sense than trying to build anything past major earth moving and walls onsite.

Well, to be fair, IKEA housing is better than pre-fab housing. You can ship a lot more units flat packed and assembled on site than shipping big boxes of space.

It's fair to argue that the pre-fab units are gorged with supplies and other necessities (thus you're not just shipping air in the containers, but other stuff as well).

But if you're looking for the efficient shipping of housing, ready to assemble kits are likely better.

 

[Quint]

Well, to be fair, IKEA housing is better than pre-fab housing. You can ship a lot more units flat packed and assembled on site than shipping big boxes of space.

It's fair to argue that the pre-fab units are gorged with supplies and other necessities (thus you're not just shipping air in the containers, but other stuff as well).

But if you're looking for the efficient shipping of housing, ready to assemble kits are likely better.

You have an excellent point, my reasoning was in factoring in uses in hostile environments needing pressure-maintained interiors. I can certainly see the use and utility of flat-packed housing, but even if that were the norm I expect that command units are normally of the interconnecting "advanced base" modular sections, pre-loaded with all the electronics and comm gear so that the command elements can get up and running immediately.

D.

 

[aramis]

Popup housing - not Ikea style flatpack - is probably more useful for army troops.

A crank-up, with an internal pressure bladder.
Follow the logic:

Layer 1 - base frame - 0.5 m thick.
Includes LS equipment, batteries. membrane storage, erection winches. also HP internal gasses tanks.
Layer 2 - Ends 0.15 m thick.
Includes 10cm thick end walls, 10cm thick by 15cm tall vertical fixed portion of side walls.
End walls are 2.85m tall, so in the 6m box, the center 10cm is empty
Layer 3 - Sides 0.25m thick. Each long side is 6×1.35m.
center 10 cm is hinge space.
Layer 4 - Cap 0.1 m thick.
Solar cells and roof.

This gives a 6×3×1 thick packet, cranking up to a 6×3×3.45 structure, with an internal of
5.8×2.8×2.85, and the internal bladder is probably 0.5 cm thick.

Erection is
crank 1: raises the roof and external walls.
crank 2: raises the end walls
Open exterior doors.
unroll enviro bubble.
affix bubble cables to pull tracks.
partially inflate bubble, while working crank 3, which pulls corners of enviro bag into corners of space.
secure door-seals to doorways.
Close doors.

3 of these, plus a similar 3×3 "dock" and an inflatable airlock 1.5×1.5×2m that connects to the fourth side, giving a T of three roughly 2 TEU spaces. Finally, 6 cots with frames, 6 fabric chairs, 3 camp tables, lightweight electric cooking gear, plus unfolding refrigerator units for the final 3×3×1 m box, which, once emptied, serves as the front deck, at 6×3×0.5m. Stack another 6x6x1m atop it for provender...
6x6x3m is 4x4 deck squares, total 8 Td. One of those extra two Td is probably food, the other ammo and extra cots.

 

[kilemall]

In my CT campaign starter with the ship designs, the most radical was the container homed traveller.

I went with another meme, private rail cars. They didn't own the means of locomotion, just the home on rails.

The designer suggested effectively high end mobile home parks, slide em into a slot on your grav-enabed parking garage/skyscraper with utility hookup and it's instant apartment in any environment.

That and the 200-ton combo trader/prospector/explorer forced me to hardcode the container standards of MTU (effectively 5 and 10-ton containers that roughly correspond to our 20 foot and 45 foot containers).

 

[Lycanorukke]

Popup housing - not Ikea style flatpack - is probably more useful for army troops.

A crank-up, with an internal pressure bladder.

Skip the cranks/bladder and go with a 2 state memory plastic.

Press the 'Erect' button and the box unfolds into a shelter (or expands up like an accordion for sealed environments). Once done press 'Stow' and it folds up again.

The down side of course is if people are inside when the 'stow' button is pressed.