Should CT be decoupled from the 3rd Imperium?
- Thread starter Murph
- Start date
Spinward Flow
SOC-14 5K
The Third Imperium was simply provided as a setting for people who didn't want to create their own.
CT does not in any way "mandate" that all games and campaigns MUST be set in the OTU.
Referees collectively "turn away" from the official publications and diversify into their own campaigns and settings.
You have identified a Non Problem™.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
There was no Third Imperium when I started with Traveller.
CT LBB1-3 were intended for the referee to make up their own setting.
If you take a look at LBB:0 it even gives an example of bespoke setting design.
I agree that the vast majority think that Traveller is set in the Third Imperium and always has been, but such a view comes from the Third Imperium being mentioned so much in the adventures, supplemental rulebooks (note how much more specific to the Third Imperium they become as you go from LBB4 to LBB8), supplements and JTAS.
The fact remains that CT LBB1-3 is not tied to the Third Imperium, so it doesn't need decoupling as such, just more emphasis on it being a set of rules for designing your own setting based on the sci fi you enjoy.
CT LBB1-3 were intended for the referee to make up their own setting.
If you take a look at LBB:0 it even gives an example of bespoke setting design.
I agree that the vast majority think that Traveller is set in the Third Imperium and always has been, but such a view comes from the Third Imperium being mentioned so much in the adventures, supplemental rulebooks (note how much more specific to the Third Imperium they become as you go from LBB4 to LBB8), supplements and JTAS.
The fact remains that CT LBB1-3 is not tied to the Third Imperium, so it doesn't need decoupling as such, just more emphasis on it being a set of rules for designing your own setting based on the sci fi you enjoy.
As mentioned above, the setting is (mostly) separate from the system. What you probably should be asking, is what setting do you want to use?
There are, as I see it, four main "current" settings, and a number of steps or what have been called 'milleaus'.
So, in no particular order:
Setting one - The Original setting, or "CT" setting as some call it. Goes up to about 1110 or so, so just after the FFW. The Vanilla setting, if you like.
Setting two - Rebellion, where Dulior murders Strephon, and it all goes to [beeeeeeeeeep] in a handbasket.
Setting three - The Virus, where a certain well-known antivirus protection firm whose letters sound a LOT like a character from a fantasy movie from 2005, starring Emma Thompson, screwed up and let something outta the box - whoops, sorry, wrong script
Seriously, this is the one where a computer virus somehow achieves sentience, and does a Skynet on all organics. IMNSHO, it's a lame idea, and why they released TNE (which I refused to get for that reason).
Setting four - The most optimistic of the lot thus far, and the version I prefer in my own games: "The Lorenverse". This continues the thread of the CT version, which is the original setting, no rebellion, virus, or other nonsense, the 3I continues along, Strephon as Emperor, Dulior killed in a shuttle "accident". Oops.
Aaaaaand then there are the so-called 'milleaus', where you go back along the 3I timeline, and stage the games in 'historical' settings along that timeline. (and yes, I'm completely ignoring the Empress Wave. Hey, it's MTU, I can do what I like
So, it's not (strictly) about the CT mechanism. It's about the setting. And let us not forget that you CAN bin the entire GDW setting(s) list, and "roll your own" setting (which is what my last Ref did, btw).
As to mechanisms. I prefer the MT system, as devised by DGP and published by GDW. I don't mind the MgT2e setting, but it requires the purchase of more and more rule books (what is this, WH40zillion or something?!). You can get the ENTIRE CT and MT settings and books (less certain third party and unadopted publications) published by GDW from FFE on a couple of DVDs for a LOT less than a half dozen new rules books, frankly. Not that this is stopping me, as a lot of people still like to play the newest shiniest books on the block, but even so, the older systems are well-established, and work, for the most part. That, btw, is where 'house rules' (of which I have a few) come into play. And I still get to use whatever setting I like, if I'm refereeing the game.
So, yet again, not about the CT system, it's the setting.
Have a better day!
(Edited for spelling and clarity!)
There are, as I see it, four main "current" settings, and a number of steps or what have been called 'milleaus'.
So, in no particular order:
Setting one - The Original setting, or "CT" setting as some call it. Goes up to about 1110 or so, so just after the FFW. The Vanilla setting, if you like.
Setting two - Rebellion, where Dulior murders Strephon, and it all goes to [beeeeeeeeeep] in a handbasket.
Setting three - The Virus, where a certain well-known antivirus protection firm whose letters sound a LOT like a character from a fantasy movie from 2005, starring Emma Thompson, screwed up and let something outta the box - whoops, sorry, wrong script
Seriously, this is the one where a computer virus somehow achieves sentience, and does a Skynet on all organics. IMNSHO, it's a lame idea, and why they released TNE (which I refused to get for that reason).Setting four - The most optimistic of the lot thus far, and the version I prefer in my own games: "The Lorenverse". This continues the thread of the CT version, which is the original setting, no rebellion, virus, or other nonsense, the 3I continues along, Strephon as Emperor, Dulior killed in a shuttle "accident". Oops.
Aaaaaand then there are the so-called 'milleaus', where you go back along the 3I timeline, and stage the games in 'historical' settings along that timeline. (and yes, I'm completely ignoring the Empress Wave. Hey, it's MTU, I can do what I like
So, it's not (strictly) about the CT mechanism. It's about the setting. And let us not forget that you CAN bin the entire GDW setting(s) list, and "roll your own" setting (which is what my last Ref did, btw).
As to mechanisms. I prefer the MT system, as devised by DGP and published by GDW. I don't mind the MgT2e setting, but it requires the purchase of more and more rule books (what is this, WH40zillion or something?!). You can get the ENTIRE CT and MT settings and books (less certain third party and unadopted publications) published by GDW from FFE on a couple of DVDs for a LOT less than a half dozen new rules books, frankly. Not that this is stopping me, as a lot of people still like to play the newest shiniest books on the block, but even so, the older systems are well-established, and work, for the most part. That, btw, is where 'house rules' (of which I have a few) come into play. And I still get to use whatever setting I like, if I'm refereeing the game.
So, yet again, not about the CT system, it's the setting.
Have a better day!
(Edited for spelling and clarity!)
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It does, however, use the 3I (and largely, the Spinward Marches) for all published CT adventures from GDW. Also, all the DGP, JG, GW, Gamelords, and FASA adventures.
It's worth noting that A1-A4 present a very different view of the nascent 3I setting. Essentially, once you get past A4, S4 and Bk4, you get into the big ship morally grey Imperium, rather than the dark, morally slate grey to black evil 3I of A1-A4.
Most of the tropes of the 3I, however, are baked into the rules in Bk1-5 and S4.
Condottiere
SOC-14 5K
I tend to think that the character generation system plays a part in that linkage.
You could use it in COMMUTER, Career Adventure in the Current Present.
You could use it in COMMUTER, Career Adventure in the Current Present.
You have the 3I built into all versions of character creation within the game, iirc. A little adjustment here and there with such things as decorations, benefits, and suchlike, and that separates it reasonably effectively.
The adventures aren't the rules books, though. You could use the CT Rules with, for example, a setting for Space:1999, Babylon 5, or even Space Hunter. Specific Rule sets are not necessary to settings: you can use whatever rules you want. Heck, you could use the rules for Paranoia! With a CT setting (which could make for a truly wierd game, has to be said
).
Err?
The three basic books have no setting....
Or in the old words, what you do in your Traveller universe is your business... Hence IMTU....
Heck 90% of what I throw out isn't dependent on the 3rd Imperium.
While I mine the setting for most of my games, that is because I am lazy.
No.
Why?
A) The industry was not ready for generic rules. The genre (RPG) was still being established. GURPs came quite late to the game, literally.
B) It wouldn't have mattered. They would have inevitably had to come out with something, and it would have been One Thing (i.e. the Imperium).
C) They eventually did strive to make a generic rules set, with T2K 2.0, TNE, and DC. But even then, the separations were not perfect, each rule set had some bit of the era they were portraying creep into the core rule set. It never made any sense for them to come out with a generic rule book and a supplement for each game. It would have just made the games more complicated.
D) Finally, anyone can separate "The Imperium" from "Traveller" rule set. Jump still rules the space lanes. Shotguns still do 4D damage. Many players did not roll the Rebellion, much less the Virus, into their campaigns.
Why?
A) The industry was not ready for generic rules. The genre (RPG) was still being established. GURPs came quite late to the game, literally.
B) It wouldn't have mattered. They would have inevitably had to come out with something, and it would have been One Thing (i.e. the Imperium).
C) They eventually did strive to make a generic rules set, with T2K 2.0, TNE, and DC. But even then, the separations were not perfect, each rule set had some bit of the era they were portraying creep into the core rule set. It never made any sense for them to come out with a generic rule book and a supplement for each game. It would have just made the games more complicated.
D) Finally, anyone can separate "The Imperium" from "Traveller" rule set. Jump still rules the space lanes. Shotguns still do 4D damage. Many players did not roll the Rebellion, much less the Virus, into their campaigns.
kilemall
SOC-14 5K
I’m from the original era and so never really had the Imperium must be there bug. First adventures made it a new setting, but years later I was done with it. Nowadays it’s more thought experiment for setting concepts.
Just have to ignore various 3I references or have functional analogues for those tropes you do use.
Just have to ignore various 3I references or have functional analogues for those tropes you do use.
Not true. Adv 5 TCS is a rulebook. It's Bk 5 part II...
Plus, the rules for the ATV are in Across the Bright Face.
Other rules content sneaks in in other adventures, such as Beltstrike specifying M-Drives include a shielding system to reduce hull damage.
Likewise, books 5, 6, 7 and 8 all include information about the imperium... 5's is pretty generic, 6-8 explicitly include setting text sections.
Book 4's setting text was present, but generic enough to apply equally well to the later 40K imperium, the later 3I, the contemporary CoDoVerse imperium....
But wasn't that just a feature of the LBB being fairly light-on with rules that could cover a range of possibilities across SF settings?
punkrabbitt
SOC-9
I've played CT in a homebrew setting and in the Third Imperium. Both have their merits. I would venture that the 3LBBs are Imperium-centric with the Social Standing defaulting to a royalty/nobility scale. When I first started the game, I thought it was a British import because of this. It was 1979 and I was 10 years old lol! Homebrew was first, but as I acquired more Traveller books, the Third Imperium began to look very inviting. I think I had switched my game fully to the official setting by 1985. I did not use the published adventures directly, but definitely used the aliens and other supplements.
Anyway, I started rambling. I think Traveller has Third Imperium baked into the first book with the social standing.
Anyway, I started rambling. I think Traveller has Third Imperium baked into the first book with the social standing.
Many consider the amount of rules content in adventures a bug, not a feature. I certainly did, right from the get-go. In 1983. (It didn't help that I also had SpaceMaster, which included vehicle combat... not very well, but included.)
Best example of missed opportunity? Bk4 Mercenary. CT Core barely gives rules for using vehicles other than starships. And then, It's mechanics are mislocated into the Air/Raft skill, rather than Vehicle, despite Air/Raft noting (in TTB, at least) that it's the same skill as Grav Vehicle. So, we are given detailed Char Gen for Armor crews... but no rules in core nor B4 for how to fight using planetary vehicles. It would have taken about 8 more pages... 2 pages of weapon vs Vehicle Armor for small arms, 3 pages of Vehicle Weapons (both vs Range and vs Armor level, and the att DMs, weights, and prices), a page of movement rules, plus the additional description of some tanks and APCs...
I filled the gap when I took over GMing by essentially using Car Wars as my vehicle rules. (1d damage = 1 CW hit). Later, I got Striker, and the combat and movement mechanics became (and still are) my go to when I run CT. But Striker design and I are no longer friends. Note also that I did try to adapt the Horonnon ATV rules to armor, and never found something I felt good about.
If SpaceMaster had been closer to MERP level complexity, rather than being full-up Rolemaster-in-space, I'd probably have jumped ship in fall '84...
I prefer the T20 design sequences. In no small part because I contributed to them.
I find the MgT ones from 1E annoyingly fuzzy. And am too cheap (and now too broke) to get 2E.
Plus, I just don't like MgT CGen, personal Combat, Ship Combat, nor ship designs, either. (I don't hate them, either, just no appeal when MegaT CharGen, T20 designs, and existing canon conversions.
None of which changes the gaping hole in CT: the lack of Bk2/4 compliant canonical ground and air vehicle combat rules.
Well one could vaguely use Striker....
Though honestly I just repurpose the Smallcraft rules for vehicle combat. Though currently a fork of Full Thrust/Dirtside looks amusing as well.
