[Slightly off topic] Virtual D&D
- Thread starter Oculus Orbus
- Start date
Oculus Orbus
SOC-8
I probably should have expected as much. Ah, well. Maybe some day.
It's a first step... but VTT design is a whole big raft of issues.
It needs to do all of the following well just to be useful
- allow for text communication
- Allow for image sharing
- Allow for dice rolling
- allow for maps and markers
Most now also include
- Light source calculations
- fog of war
- handling movement
- calculating ranges
- handling damage data
- handling some area effect spells
Adding the VR "around the table" aspect is far less important than getting the mechanics right for the various play aspects. And there are SEVERAL solid VTT's.
Not to endorse any, mind, just listing the ones I'm aware of:
GRIP (no longer maintained)
Maptools
Roll20
Fantasy Grounds
I can see the application of using VR for tabletop gaming. If you have ever put on an Oculus you know what I mean. But this application falls way short. The developers seem to have overlooked the premise that this is a virtual world. Who hangs dice on the ceiling? Put a stack of books (pdfs) next to my chair, I would never have 3 computer screens connected to Google up and running during a game. And maps on the table? This is where the VR could shine by making the rendition 3d. Why settle for a 3d miniature? Give me walls, rocks, water, etc. In the real world one would spend a fortune for miniature architectural pieces.
Someday...
Someday...
Roll20 or Google Hangouts works very well. But a lot of the issues I have with the current crop of online solutions is the pre-game prep that has to be performed. If that is your thing, then good. And having the tools on hand gives you something to work with, but K.I.S.S. is a good motto to work with.
Even having avatars/icons for characters is too much effort! Share a map/picture, and apply some fog of war if needed, then draw on it to show positions and things. Share a dice roller, some VOIP and text chat. Bingo. Add character sheets to a shared drive if you have to. Anything else takes an additional amount of time that I cannot personally justify.
That is not to say I don't game online. I have and do and it can be very rewarding, but the tools need to fade into the background.
(Just checked the video of the D&D VR. Nope. Not my cup of tea.)
Even having avatars/icons for characters is too much effort! Share a map/picture, and apply some fog of war if needed, then draw on it to show positions and things. Share a dice roller, some VOIP and text chat. Bingo. Add character sheets to a shared drive if you have to. Anything else takes an additional amount of time that I cannot personally justify.
That is not to say I don't game online. I have and do and it can be very rewarding, but the tools need to fade into the background.
(Just checked the video of the D&D VR. Nope. Not my cup of tea.)
G. Kashkanun Anderson
SOC-13
I will be getting my hands on a Gear VR sometime in the (hopefully) next few weeks. I was already planning on doing a cursory check of this app sometime soon after that, as well as the virtual arcade.
As an aside, I was hoping someone would have come up with a VR-friendly 3d walk-through of a Beowulf-class ship by now, or at least a Suleiman. Is there anything like that available, or at least something adaptable?
As an aside, I was hoping someone would have come up with a VR-friendly 3d walk-through of a Beowulf-class ship by now, or at least a Suleiman. Is there anything like that available, or at least something adaptable?
In addition on the 3D front there is Tabletop Simulator which is pretty usable and has dozens of add-ons for various board games and RPGs.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/
I played board games with Vassal and Tabletop Simulator and I have to say that Tabletop Simulator does add something to the experience by being able to manipulate physical pieces. But it is not critical as to what already available in Vassal.
For Traveller, the combination of VoIP (Skype, Google, etc) and Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds is perfect for gaming on-line. Tabletop Simulator will have to a lot to catch up to those two and frankly I don't see it happening as TS is better suited for something that involves handling physical pieces like board games.
TS can do Roleplaying games and card games but there are better UIs for those two than a 3D virtual environment.
Finally the biggest downside of anything 3D is that the skill set to make custom add-on is a lot higher. With VTTs like Roll20 pretty much the only thing you need to master outside of the software is scanning in images of anything you want to show. With Tabletop Simulator you have to know 3D modeling to make custom pieces.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/286160/
I played board games with Vassal and Tabletop Simulator and I have to say that Tabletop Simulator does add something to the experience by being able to manipulate physical pieces. But it is not critical as to what already available in Vassal.
For Traveller, the combination of VoIP (Skype, Google, etc) and Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds is perfect for gaming on-line. Tabletop Simulator will have to a lot to catch up to those two and frankly I don't see it happening as TS is better suited for something that involves handling physical pieces like board games.
TS can do Roleplaying games and card games but there are better UIs for those two than a 3D virtual environment.
Finally the biggest downside of anything 3D is that the skill set to make custom add-on is a lot higher. With VTTs like Roll20 pretty much the only thing you need to master outside of the software is scanning in images of anything you want to show. With Tabletop Simulator you have to know 3D modeling to make custom pieces.
The main difference between a VTT and face to face is that anything you want to show you need to have scanned in. The rest operates pretty much as it does in face-to-face.
Now VTTs do have utilities like combat trackers and NPCs sheets. However you don't have to fill them out or use them any more then you have to have Pathfinder Combat Pad (a dry erase board optimized for combat tracking) or the NPC character sheet that various RPGs have.
My experience that the experience of using VTTs and face-to-face are that while prep is not the same the amount of work is the same. VTTs have some advantages over face-to-face and vice versa. In the end they total up to be the same. The only must requirement for a VTT is that you got to be able to scan in anything you want to display.
so one piece of advice to anybody starting out with VTTs is that don't feel you have to use all the feature available. The critical ones are showing images on the whiteboard, drawing on the whiteboard, rolling the dice, and using voice/text chat.
After you are comfortable with that then figure out how character sheets work along with the way you would like to use maps and fog of war. On advantage of VTTs is their superior ability to handle fog of war in encounters.
Now VTTs do have utilities like combat trackers and NPCs sheets. However you don't have to fill them out or use them any more then you have to have Pathfinder Combat Pad (a dry erase board optimized for combat tracking) or the NPC character sheet that various RPGs have.
My experience that the experience of using VTTs and face-to-face are that while prep is not the same the amount of work is the same. VTTs have some advantages over face-to-face and vice versa. In the end they total up to be the same. The only must requirement for a VTT is that you got to be able to scan in anything you want to display.
so one piece of advice to anybody starting out with VTTs is that don't feel you have to use all the feature available. The critical ones are showing images on the whiteboard, drawing on the whiteboard, rolling the dice, and using voice/text chat.
After you are comfortable with that then figure out how character sheets work along with the way you would like to use maps and fog of war. On advantage of VTTs is their superior ability to handle fog of war in encounters.
Are you using? With Roll20 is just a matter of doing a image search, dragging it to the map and assigning it to the player. DO it once and you can copy and past across the different maps. With Fantasy Grounds you just drag it into the shared folder before the game starts and it appears in everybody's toolbox.
The latest version of VTTs like Roll20 and Fantasy Ground have character sheets light years ahead of where things were a couple of years back.
Even that is too much in Roll20, been there done that, got annoyed at it. Using maps (beyond a scribble on a bit of paper) is just overkill. Roll20 and others are just too much effort for the limited pay off in my opinion. Over the years I have really, really wanted to make online gaming with bells and whistles work for me. I can't.
The point being I am one of "those" gamers who just approximates it all in the head. I don't tend to play games that require that granular level of detail (says he, posting on a Traveller forum!).
As for character sheets, I am getting involved in an online game today. My character sheet? I printed out a PDF, and filled it in with a pencil. I have tried so many digital "solutions" to character management, nothing works for me. I might transcribe my notes/character to a word processor file or something later.
One concession though, I do use a dice roller on my phone. And I sometimes use online character generators, which I then print out character sheets from and use in game.
The point being I am one of "those" gamers who just approximates it all in the head. I don't tend to play games that require that granular level of detail (says he, posting on a Traveller forum!).
As for character sheets, I am getting involved in an online game today. My character sheet? I printed out a PDF, and filled it in with a pencil. I have tried so many digital "solutions" to character management, nothing works for me. I might transcribe my notes/character to a word processor file or something later.
One concession though, I do use a dice roller on my phone. And I sometimes use online character generators, which I then print out character sheets from and use in game.
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