Smallcraft Drive confusion?

[ArcaneFlash]

I have been designing a number of small craft. I'm in the process of having to redesign the small craft section.

The reason is why a 100t smallcraft would ever choose a sZ engine at 19t equal to a K engine for a rating of 6, when it could use a size C engine at 5 tons.

Any ideas on the decrepancy?

 

[Vladika]

I have been designing a number of small craft. I'm in the process of having to redesign the small craft section.

The reason is why a 100t smallcraft would ever choose a sZ engine at 19t equal to a K engine for a rating of 6, when it could use a size C engine at 5 tons.

Any ideas on the decrepancy?

Badly thought out by FEE.

Same question arises in HG2 vs CT Bk 2 Drives. Why a HG2 17dt M Drive in a 100dt hull rather than use a "C" Drive at 5dt...

DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION
The ship design and construction system given in Book 2 must be considered to be a standard system for providing ships using off-the-shelf components. It is not superceded by any system given in this book; instead this book presents a system for construction of very large vessels, and includes provisions for use of the system with smaller ships. - HG2 p18

Drives:
...It is possible to include standard drives (at standard prices) from Book 2 if they will otherwise meet the ship's requirements; such drives use fuel as indicated by the formulas in Book 2. - HG2 p22

 

[atpollard]

I was originally going to post something similar, but saw this was under Mongoose Traveller ... so this was more like a case of Mongoose not seeing a need to 'fix' the Classic Traveller discrepancy.

The whole CT Smallcraft vs LBB2 tables vs High Guard formula makes me

and I didn't want to reopen that :CoW:.

... but as long as it has been reopened:

[begin rant]
Good grief, is it really so hard to check the design rules where vehicles overlap since that is where cracks in the rules tend to show up first. I mean 1977 to 2014 ... how long does it take to figure out a solution. Heck, half the members on this board could come up with a working solution. Why didn't Mongoose fix it?
[end rant]

I feel better now.

[Just don't tell me it is a feature.] :file_28:

 

[atpollard]

Any ideas on the discrepancy?

Ignore it.
Assume that you can use either the crapy big block engine or the more efficient small block engine ... and most reasonable people have chosen to use the smaller engine.

That's my idea.

 

[ArcaneFlash]

I took this Idea. M-Drive example:

sH = A, Both are 2 tons;
sR = B, both are 3 tons;
sZ = C, both are 5 tons.

I did the same with every engine and power plant and filled in the blanks of the smallcraft engine/power chart. It came out pretty well.

 

[Condottiere]

Smallcraft sK grav drive is the most efficient engine.

 

[Nerhesi]

Perhaps I'm missing something but for your 100ton small craft, an sK engine gives you a thrust of 2 for 5 tons...

You need sX for thrust 6. 17 tons.

Someone clarify what went over my head? Thanks

 

[atpollard]

Perhaps I'm missing something but for your 100ton small craft, an sK engine gives you a thrust of 2 for 5 tons...

You need sX for thrust 6. 17 tons.

Someone clarify what went over my head? Thanks

Would THREE sK drives in a 100 dTon hull allow thrust 6?

If so, then
3 x 5 tons = 15 tons (sK, thrust 6)
and 1 x 17 tons = 17 tons (sX, thrust 6).

sK is a more volume efficient drive than sX.

 

[Nerhesi]

Ah - I was wondering if that is the assumption.

My obvious answer would be no! Of course not! Simply because I cannot assume that they operate by "throwing" something out of the back side similar to Reaction drives.

Also - what are the power requirements for 3 X smalldrives vs 1 X larger drives?
--------


Wait a second - Did I just trapped myself? Does this hold for reaction drives? Quick comparison:

100 dton craft. sX reaction drive = 7 tons. Or, 3 sH drives for 2 tons a piece, yielding Thrust 6, for 6 tons. 1 ton saving. Surprisingly, yielding a bit more of a logical result.

Conclusion: Gravitic drives do not operate in a simple linear format? You can't simply add more "exhausts" therefore adding more thrusts?

I disbelieve that you intelligent gents did not consider this though.. So again I'm sure I missed something.

 

[robject]

Are engineers required for Mongoose small craft drives?

 

[Nerhesi]

No sir! Mongoose small craft are limited to 1 or 2 crew (>40dton = 2 crew) with no specific requirement on position/role.

 

[atpollard]

Are engineers required for Mongoose small craft drives?

Actually, Engineers are prohibited from Small Craft Design ... we obsess over the progression on the drive table.

 

[atpollard]

Conclusion: Gravitic drives do not operate in a simple linear format? You can't simply add more "exhausts" therefore adding more thrusts?

I disbelieve that you intelligent gents did not consider this though.. So again I'm sure I missed something.

If a sK drive will produce thrust 2 in a 100 dTon hull and thrust 4 in a 50 ton hull ...
Then two 50 ton hulls with one sK drive in each can fly in close formation at thrust 4 ...
And if I begin an EVA 'wing walk' along one of the 50 ton ships and tack weld the wing tips together, the 100 ton combined ship will suddenly slow down?

It is possible that the magic grav drives function exactly like this ... but then the question becomes why?

Why is it a linear progression for performance vs size as the hull size changes, but a non-linear progression for performance as the engine size changes?

You have missed nothing, either way raises issues ... so choose your poison and live with it.

For me, I like to design things, so I would like the concept of a ship with dual drives from a visual perspective ... so grav drives creating 'virtual thrust' works for me.

Some drives are more efficient than others ... like the 350 CI Big Block Chevy motor vs the 350 CI Chevy Small Block Motor.

 

[ArcaneFlash]

I like my solution Better. sZ M-Drive is 5 tons. this 17 ton business is a scam by mongoose engines inc.
also, sY m-drive is 4.85tons. Remade sK to 2.25tons.

Likewise a sZ P-Plant 10 tons.

 

[atpollard]

While completely irrelevant to Mongoose Traveller, MegaTraveller set the size for an engine that produces thrust 1 in a 100 ton hull and said to just scale it from there (subject to a lower limit on how small you can make an engine).

... So you want thrust 6, then install an engine 6 times as large.
... But your ship is only 50 tons, then cut the size in half.

I thought that it was an elegant solution.

 

[ArcaneFlash]

AT,

I like how MT let you design Craft. However I like how MgT standard starship combat works (also I use hexes of 1250 km/hex, I'm an old SFB player and can't give up on the combat style.)

However never could get the MT style combat straight. If I could mix MT style design and MgT weapons together I'd be very happy.