So... Merchant Prince?
- Thread starter Kilgs
- Start date
saundby
SOC-14 1K
My take on it so far is:
the low quality art is an unwelcome distraction
the mechanics are so-so, I may find some gold as I dig into it more, so that assessment may get better, it's not likely to get much worse unless I find some howlers I've overlooked to date.
My impression overall so far is "meh." I think I could have spent the money better. But there's a lot I haven't dug into yet--the classes, frex. *shrug* I was looking forward to better.
More later when I've had more time with it. I'm planning on taking it, some dice, and a handicomp (UMID BZ) when I go camping this summer.
Edited to add:
OK, I've had some more time with the book now. Here are some more specific opinions on the book now.
The character classes are a waste of paper. They add nothing significant to what's in the core book's Merchant class. The new traits, stuff about being a merchant, the whole lot. Forget the first 30 pages of the book. And Brian Steele needs to keep a dictionary on hand to look up terms like "Merchant Marine."
The next section, on "commercial entities", might have some useful stuff in it. I can hardly see sitting and wishing such rules were codified, though. The presentation scheme (a sort of "How to Succeed" primer) is over-strained. The information density is low. I can hardly imagine Process of Management stuff as being fun, even for obsessive players. If the character classes score a zero, I'd give this a one or two out of ten.
Next comes "The Merchant Lines", which expands on the information given in the Spinward Marches book about the megacorps. If you're using the 3I, this is useful info. I'm not, so it's less useful. It could still be used in a non-3I milieu if you want plug and play megacorps, or models for your own.
Trade in the Galactic Market is the meat of the book. It has a somewhat corrected version of the trade section of the Core Book, with a few minor additions. It also adds FedEx trade, mail delivery, a Passenger transport section somewhat expanded and revised from TMB, salvage trade, and a bloated section on slave trade that mostly seems to be written to justify the slaver character classes. There's also a simple mechanic for increasing cargo value by assuming extra risks, which is pretty artificial and not campaign-friendly. It's just a paper mechanic, with the player saying "I'll take more risk, how much of a plus will I get on my cargo value roll?" Yeah, the ref will roll for the risk affecting the trip, but then again, what if there's no more risk to be taken between two worlds a single jump apart with clear space lanes? Yeah, the ref should intervene, but then since we've already got law levels, why create a new mechanic?
The new types of trade are welcome additions, aside from excess of slavery stuff.
The next section is on Privateering. It's not bad. The information density here is pretty good overall.
Then there's a section on trade goods. It gives more background on what the different goods are with some charts that can be used to roll up specific items if desired. The charts are too brief for general use, but not a bad starting point for a new campaign. The descriptions are also pretty basic stuff, again most useful to someone just getting started. Not a bad section, but not all that useful to someone with an established campaign and a bit of imagination.
The last section is hardware. There are a few good items, the rest isn't all that compelling. But it's not all that bad, either.
Among the things missing are a connection between the large trade lines and the small-time trader. I would like to have seen rules for mapping established trade lines, and rules for the effect of those lines on speculative trade. For example, if you've got a couple of complementary worlds set a short jump from each other, it stands to reason that there'd be established trade lines between them in the goods each one produces for the ones the other produces. That means there'd be fewer opportunities for a small trader to haul those goods, and probably less profit as well.
Competition rules would have been useful as well as part of the general trade rules, again, particularly where there are obvious places on the map for competition to exist. This could be tied to trade line rules. Use world characteristics to determine where trade lines exist and in what products. Then determine a competition level for that trade line. Perhaps saturation levels, as well. This sort of strategic campaign-level element is something that seems to be missing from much of the MGT material.
A set of guidelines for possible trade effects on worlds would have been interesting, too. After all, if enough machine tools are delivered to a world, at some point they're going to have their level of industrialization changed, right? Especially if they've got the raw materials to use it on.
To be honest, I don't think I'd buy the book again at this price. It's OK, but not what I was hoping for. At the price of Beltstrike I'd consider buying it. I was looking for more than a few new types of trade. Like so much of MGT, it ignores larger elements of the game for low level elements operating in a vacuum. Even the rules for creating corporate entities aren't really tied to a campaign, they're a set of rules wrapped around an individual pursuit. They allow for abstraction of employees, pay, and so on, and they're useful enough in their way but the company is still just a sort of player's equipment, like a ship.
Why buy the book?
If you want to add the new forms of trade, it may be worth it to you, or if your players want to run a corporation. The section on privateers is useful if that's part of your game, but by itself it's not enough to justify getting the book. If you're determined to have slaving detailed in your game, you may want to get this book for the rules and classes associated with that. If you're running the OTU MGT-style, the section on the OTU megacorps along with what else is in the book may have enough value for you.
For me, it falls just short.
the low quality art is an unwelcome distraction
the mechanics are so-so, I may find some gold as I dig into it more, so that assessment may get better, it's not likely to get much worse unless I find some howlers I've overlooked to date.
My impression overall so far is "meh." I think I could have spent the money better. But there's a lot I haven't dug into yet--the classes, frex. *shrug* I was looking forward to better.
More later when I've had more time with it. I'm planning on taking it, some dice, and a handicomp (UMID BZ) when I go camping this summer.
Edited to add:
OK, I've had some more time with the book now. Here are some more specific opinions on the book now.
The character classes are a waste of paper. They add nothing significant to what's in the core book's Merchant class. The new traits, stuff about being a merchant, the whole lot. Forget the first 30 pages of the book. And Brian Steele needs to keep a dictionary on hand to look up terms like "Merchant Marine."
The next section, on "commercial entities", might have some useful stuff in it. I can hardly see sitting and wishing such rules were codified, though. The presentation scheme (a sort of "How to Succeed" primer) is over-strained. The information density is low. I can hardly imagine Process of Management stuff as being fun, even for obsessive players. If the character classes score a zero, I'd give this a one or two out of ten.
Next comes "The Merchant Lines", which expands on the information given in the Spinward Marches book about the megacorps. If you're using the 3I, this is useful info. I'm not, so it's less useful. It could still be used in a non-3I milieu if you want plug and play megacorps, or models for your own.
Trade in the Galactic Market is the meat of the book. It has a somewhat corrected version of the trade section of the Core Book, with a few minor additions. It also adds FedEx trade, mail delivery, a Passenger transport section somewhat expanded and revised from TMB, salvage trade, and a bloated section on slave trade that mostly seems to be written to justify the slaver character classes. There's also a simple mechanic for increasing cargo value by assuming extra risks, which is pretty artificial and not campaign-friendly. It's just a paper mechanic, with the player saying "I'll take more risk, how much of a plus will I get on my cargo value roll?" Yeah, the ref will roll for the risk affecting the trip, but then again, what if there's no more risk to be taken between two worlds a single jump apart with clear space lanes? Yeah, the ref should intervene, but then since we've already got law levels, why create a new mechanic?
The new types of trade are welcome additions, aside from excess of slavery stuff.
The next section is on Privateering. It's not bad. The information density here is pretty good overall.
Then there's a section on trade goods. It gives more background on what the different goods are with some charts that can be used to roll up specific items if desired. The charts are too brief for general use, but not a bad starting point for a new campaign. The descriptions are also pretty basic stuff, again most useful to someone just getting started. Not a bad section, but not all that useful to someone with an established campaign and a bit of imagination.
The last section is hardware. There are a few good items, the rest isn't all that compelling. But it's not all that bad, either.
Among the things missing are a connection between the large trade lines and the small-time trader. I would like to have seen rules for mapping established trade lines, and rules for the effect of those lines on speculative trade. For example, if you've got a couple of complementary worlds set a short jump from each other, it stands to reason that there'd be established trade lines between them in the goods each one produces for the ones the other produces. That means there'd be fewer opportunities for a small trader to haul those goods, and probably less profit as well.
Competition rules would have been useful as well as part of the general trade rules, again, particularly where there are obvious places on the map for competition to exist. This could be tied to trade line rules. Use world characteristics to determine where trade lines exist and in what products. Then determine a competition level for that trade line. Perhaps saturation levels, as well. This sort of strategic campaign-level element is something that seems to be missing from much of the MGT material.
A set of guidelines for possible trade effects on worlds would have been interesting, too. After all, if enough machine tools are delivered to a world, at some point they're going to have their level of industrialization changed, right? Especially if they've got the raw materials to use it on.
To be honest, I don't think I'd buy the book again at this price. It's OK, but not what I was hoping for. At the price of Beltstrike I'd consider buying it. I was looking for more than a few new types of trade. Like so much of MGT, it ignores larger elements of the game for low level elements operating in a vacuum. Even the rules for creating corporate entities aren't really tied to a campaign, they're a set of rules wrapped around an individual pursuit. They allow for abstraction of employees, pay, and so on, and they're useful enough in their way but the company is still just a sort of player's equipment, like a ship.
Why buy the book?
If you want to add the new forms of trade, it may be worth it to you, or if your players want to run a corporation. The section on privateers is useful if that's part of your game, but by itself it's not enough to justify getting the book. If you're determined to have slaving detailed in your game, you may want to get this book for the rules and classes associated with that. If you're running the OTU MGT-style, the section on the OTU megacorps along with what else is in the book may have enough value for you.
For me, it falls just short.
Last edited:
Sadly, Saundby's review about covered it.
There really isnt much in it thats at use at all for small (PC) scale trade.
I agree with Saundby on this one. It falls short of the mark and I too give it a resounding "Meh."
I got more out of Dillitante than this one.
There really isnt much in it thats at use at all for small (PC) scale trade.
I agree with Saundby on this one. It falls short of the mark and I too give it a resounding "Meh."
I got more out of Dillitante than this one.
Last edited:
Last edited:
Well, I have it and like it. But yes, now that it's pointed out to me, it is limited on what PC-scale trading can do (I thought I was missing something!). Though I give it better than a "Meh," and use it as proof that Bryan Steele is getting better at writing for Traveller. After all, the character generation was fairly well done.
Bearing in mind that there's nothing more unexotic in science fiction than working for a living and making simple money, nonetheless Merchant Prince does offer the budding players of merchant Travellers a few pointers you likely would never really think of.
Just look at Scoundrel. Amid the heists and con games, there was that section on odd jobs. You could easily adapt something like those odd jobs and, using Merchant Prince as your guide, blow them up into full-fledged business opportunities. Merchant Prince is about having a keen nose for potential profit around every corner; at the very least, he is on the lookout for something to ensure that his profit and loss margin shows a nice, healthy positive balance at the end of the tax year, enough to keep his ship flying.
Not much really separates Merchant Prince characters from standard Traveller player characters or the players of the Drifter and Rogue characters from Scoundrel. There's still the desperate grabbing of every spare credit that floats past. And even in Dilettante, where you have characters who really don't give a flying flange about money, you still have characters who can smell profit on the wind; or at least, the chance of acquisition.
Where Merchant Prince differs is that, where the other types of character are individuals selling their talents and abilities, or working as individual consultants for other people, Merchant Prince characters offer services, business, goods or trade. They themselves don't work for others. Not even as consultants. They employ others to do the work; the characters themselves offer the services of their business to the Patrons.
Just look at Scoundrel. Amid the heists and con games, there was that section on odd jobs. You could easily adapt something like those odd jobs and, using Merchant Prince as your guide, blow them up into full-fledged business opportunities. Merchant Prince is about having a keen nose for potential profit around every corner; at the very least, he is on the lookout for something to ensure that his profit and loss margin shows a nice, healthy positive balance at the end of the tax year, enough to keep his ship flying.
Not much really separates Merchant Prince characters from standard Traveller player characters or the players of the Drifter and Rogue characters from Scoundrel. There's still the desperate grabbing of every spare credit that floats past. And even in Dilettante, where you have characters who really don't give a flying flange about money, you still have characters who can smell profit on the wind; or at least, the chance of acquisition.
Where Merchant Prince differs is that, where the other types of character are individuals selling their talents and abilities, or working as individual consultants for other people, Merchant Prince characters offer services, business, goods or trade. They themselves don't work for others. Not even as consultants. They employ others to do the work; the characters themselves offer the services of their business to the Patrons.
Kilgs,
Saundby's review is spot on and, like Wil, I'd rate [Merchant Prince between a "meh" and a "bleah".
Let's face it, SJGames set the gold standard for Traveller economics when they released Far Trader. They changed the existing system most certainly, but what they replaced it with worked seamlessly top to bottom. After reading Far Trader you can understand how the players aboard their tramp starship can still make a living in a universe with megacorp-owned megaton freighters. That top-to-bottom continuity had been missing before Far Trader and is still missing once again in Merchant Prince.
The differences in research and even general subject comprehension between the two books simply cannot be compared. I think it's telling that, while SJGames selected an economist to write Far Trader, Mongoose selected someone who thinks the term "merchant marines" refers to security guards to write Merchant Prince. (The same author was responsible for Mongoose's Mercenary if that's any help for you.)
My general impressions:
I received my copy gratis from a gamer who had bought it and no longer wanted it. While I'm glad I read it and I will be dipping into it again, I'm equally glad I didn't pay 25 bucks for it. There are good bits in Merchant Prince, there are interesting bits in Merchant Prince, and there are bits that demand closer examination too. There just isn't 25 dollars worth of bits.
Regards,
Bill
Saundby's review is spot on and, like Wil, I'd rate [Merchant Prince between a "meh" and a "bleah".
Let's face it, SJGames set the gold standard for Traveller economics when they released Far Trader. They changed the existing system most certainly, but what they replaced it with worked seamlessly top to bottom. After reading Far Trader you can understand how the players aboard their tramp starship can still make a living in a universe with megacorp-owned megaton freighters. That top-to-bottom continuity had been missing before Far Trader and is still missing once again in Merchant Prince.
The differences in research and even general subject comprehension between the two books simply cannot be compared. I think it's telling that, while SJGames selected an economist to write Far Trader, Mongoose selected someone who thinks the term "merchant marines" refers to security guards to write Merchant Prince. (The same author was responsible for Mongoose's Mercenary if that's any help for you.)
My general impressions:
- The additional character classes are little more than padding, something we've seen in other Mongoose releases. The changes from the Core book are not substantial enough to require entire pages. A few paragraphs explaining the changes would have sufficed, but a few paragraphs doesn't add to the page count.
- I found the slavery section, especially sex slaves and concubines complete with stats and a skills list, rather odd considering Mr. Miller's supposed "morals clause" for Traveller.
- The book marks a return to the pre-Far Trader economically illiterate "Golden Pair" model. The players can find a pair of worlds with complimentary trade codes and fly cargo between them until they earn gazillions of credits as if no one else in the entire universe ever noticed the same thing. The "Golden Pair" model was broken when first presented in 1977, was finally fixed with the release of Far Trader, and has now been resurrected in Merchant Prince. I found the return of this broken model to Traveller to be the saddest part of the book.
- There are quite a few new rules that should bare close examination for use in any campaign. Whether they're useful or not will depend on the GM but I'm sure there is something there for everyone. I found a few of them, like the "extra risk" mechanic mentioned by Saundby, to be little more than "roll playing" gimmicks a player can use to "play" the system rather than "role playing" aids a player can use to play the game. Just a few, however, and not all.
- There's no way to determine trade lines.
- There is some new equipment that can be easily used elsewhere.
- There's a nice section on salvage and junk dealing.
- There's a section on privateering I found rather interesting. The author tackled letters of marque and was even able to explain the difference between privateers and pirates. While the section portrayed privateers mainly as trade defenders and their offensive role in trade wars, which dates back to TTA, was wholly overlooked, the section is easily the best of part of a rather lackluster book.
- The trade goods section is nothing that hasn't been published before and nothing a few minutes work on Google couldn't pull out of real world data.
- There are a few deckplans too and deckplans are always good.
I received my copy gratis from a gamer who had bought it and no longer wanted it. While I'm glad I read it and I will be dipping into it again, I'm equally glad I didn't pay 25 bucks for it. There are good bits in Merchant Prince, there are interesting bits in Merchant Prince, and there are bits that demand closer examination too. There just isn't 25 dollars worth of bits.
Regards,
Bill
I remember asking Hunter why T20 used the old merchant system instead of the one from Far Trader (or one based on it), and he replied that it was becaused it worked for role-playing purposes. I thought that was a very good answer, (even though I disagreed with him -- the Traveller merchant system is a decent game, but it's not a role-playing game; any role-playing that is done while playing the Merchant Game has to be added by the ref).
Mind you, the CT Merchant Game had some serious flaws that canny players could exploit. It looks to me like Interstellar Wars had managed to fix those flaws (I can't say for sure, since I haven't tried it out). I suppose it would be too much to hope for that Mongoose based their version on the one from IW, but I hope they also fixed those problems.
What I object to is when the system is used as the basis for world-building; as the way trade is done by everybody, including the big established companies, rather than a distorted version used by the odd free trader to work the cracks of the main trade.
To give one example, there's a good explanation why a tramp freighter only manages 25 jumps per year. It spends eight to nine days getting from one world to the next, then spends five days in port scraping together a cargo and a load of passengers. But every official work I've seem claims that all ships do the same, and that simply doesn't make sense. A regular merchant company or passenger liner will have representatives at each world busy lining up freight and passengers, so that when a regular ship arrives, it can just unload/disembark and start loading/embarking, enabling them to do 35 to 40 jumps per year.
Hans
Mind you, the CT Merchant Game had some serious flaws that canny players could exploit. It looks to me like Interstellar Wars had managed to fix those flaws (I can't say for sure, since I haven't tried it out). I suppose it would be too much to hope for that Mongoose based their version on the one from IW, but I hope they also fixed those problems.
What I object to is when the system is used as the basis for world-building; as the way trade is done by everybody, including the big established companies, rather than a distorted version used by the odd free trader to work the cracks of the main trade.
To give one example, there's a good explanation why a tramp freighter only manages 25 jumps per year. It spends eight to nine days getting from one world to the next, then spends five days in port scraping together a cargo and a load of passengers. But every official work I've seem claims that all ships do the same, and that simply doesn't make sense. A regular merchant company or passenger liner will have representatives at each world busy lining up freight and passengers, so that when a regular ship arrives, it can just unload/disembark and start loading/embarking, enabling them to do 35 to 40 jumps per year.
Hans
I have to agree with you Hans, one of the things my players have done in the past is hire a full time broker to line up cargos along the stops of their trade routes so that they didnt have to do so themselves. gave them a very fast turnaround, and they made HEAPS of money, and I imagine that thats exactly how subsidised ships and corperations do their trade.
It does however make things interesting when the players set all this up and have to leave the established route for whatever reason, and their scheduals suddenly became "broken".
Total Chaos.
It does however make things interesting when the players set all this up and have to leave the established route for whatever reason, and their scheduals suddenly became "broken".
Total Chaos.
If you have a cargo load waiting upon arrival, your turnaround is 3 days...
Most of a day inbound, most of a day outbound, and a day to make the load/unload.
allowing 8 days for normal jumping, that's an 11 day cycle... or 2.7 jumps per calendar month instead of 2.1 (2.5 instead of 2 per imperial month). It's a huge benefit.
An orbital 100 diameter transfer station makes it even faster... say a day turnaround... for a 9 day cycle. 3.3 per Calendar Month, 3.1 per Imperial. But it loses out by paying in-system shipping and transfer fees.
There, however, is all the economy of scale needed to generate corporate merchantile activity... and T20 gave all the needed numbers except in-system transfer.
Corollary: best way to lower shipping costs in traveller: reduce the time jump takes
Most of a day inbound, most of a day outbound, and a day to make the load/unload.
allowing 8 days for normal jumping, that's an 11 day cycle... or 2.7 jumps per calendar month instead of 2.1 (2.5 instead of 2 per imperial month). It's a huge benefit.
An orbital 100 diameter transfer station makes it even faster... say a day turnaround... for a 9 day cycle. 3.3 per Calendar Month, 3.1 per Imperial. But it loses out by paying in-system shipping and transfer fees.
There, however, is all the economy of scale needed to generate corporate merchantile activity... and T20 gave all the needed numbers except in-system transfer.
Corollary: best way to lower shipping costs in traveller: reduce the time jump takes
Last edited:
Cryton,
That's precisely how corporations in Traveller - and the real world - trade. They have local factors and local brokers who understand local markets, have local contacts, and can thus provide steady opportunities based on their specific local knowledge.
That's only part of the equation however. There's something very important to brokers, shippers, and other business people which that subsidized ships and corporations can provide and which the players cannot provide.
Bingo!. Give the man a cigar!
The players in their tramp trader cannot even begin to offer the continuity and dependability of service that a subsidized ship and/or corporation can. Business people want long term contracts with dependable, legally enforced schedules they can check their calendars by.
Spacely Sprockets of Arglebargle-IX wants to know it's shipments to Moronica-V will be steady and timely because it's share of the sprocket market on Moronika-V depends completely on Spacely's sprockets arriving steadily and on time. If a shipment is lost or delayed in some manner, Spacely Sprockets will lose a chunk of it's market share to Cogwell Cogs. All this means that Spacely will only use with reputable shippers and will ink long term contracts with those shippers. Long term contracts are good for both sides as they provide Spacely with dependable deliveries and the shippers with dependable cargoes.
Continuity and dependability are part of the speculative trade picture too because a known or even suspected luxury is going to be sold for as much as the producer can demand. A dependable shipper with a continuity of service is going to be able to approach the yeoman of Schmoeland and arrange to purchase organically grown cocktail umbrellas at a fixed price over a lengthy period of time. That is something the players aboard their tramp trader cannot hope to match. As with long term shipping contracts, these long term purchasing contracts are good for both sides as they provide the growers with a known income and the shipper with known cargoes.
Dependable service and a continuity of service means that the players are shippers and purchasers of last resort. Spacely isn't going to consign a load of Arglebargle sprockets bound for Moronica to Cap'n Blackie of the free trader Running Boil unless Spacely has no other choice and, unless they have no other choice, a yeoman of Schmoeland isn't going to sell a dTon of organically grown cocktail umbrellas to Cap'n Blackie either because dependable shippers with a continuity of service have arranged to purchase those umbrellas years in advance.
Being a shipper or purchaser of last resort is a special event and not an everyday occurrence. This means a trade/cargo system meant to provide goods and cargoes for the players aboard tramp traders shouldn't automatically produce large lots of trade goods/cargo with every roll of the dice. A trade system focused on the needs of role-playing should be the goal of any role-playing game, but a trade system focused on the needs of role-playing doesn't have to be economically illiterate.
Sadly, automatically producing large lots of trade goods/cargo with every roll of the dice is exactly what the economically illiterate "Golden Pair" trade model does.
Regards,
Bill
I included the day inbound and the day outbound in the nine day trip. If you include them in the turnaround, the trip becomes 7 days (+/- 10%) and a free trader spends seven days in port (or rather, in-system) instead of five. Same difference.
Why would you allow 8 days for jumping when the average jump is 7 days?
That it would, except for the fact that ships will arrive up to 90 degrees away from the station -- a quarter of the circumference. Still, you would save some hours in most cases. You need enough trade to pay for the station, though.
Note, BTW, that none of the rules take into account worlds that orbit deep inside the solar jump limit.
Hans
Last edited:
Some jumps take 6 days, some 8, most take 7 days. You plan for 8.
There used to be a system for determining it. Nowdays I use the astrogatin roll. Miss by one or exact on your roll, 8 day jump. make it by 6 or more, 6 day jump. miss by more than 1, misjump.
In any case the existing system DOES work for a Planet Express type game. As you know Planet Express are the guys you call when you have no other choice, and they go anywhere.
There used to be a system for determining it. Nowdays I use the astrogatin roll. Miss by one or exact on your roll, 8 day jump. make it by 6 or more, 6 day jump. miss by more than 1, misjump.
In any case the existing system DOES work for a Planet Express type game. As you know Planet Express are the guys you call when you have no other choice, and they go anywhere.
Jumps take 168 hours +/- 10%, distributed along a bell curve. So most jumps will fall well within the outside figures.
A regular passenger liner might plan for the full 185 hours in order to have a fixed departure time. Or they might sell tickets on conditions that passengers show up on 16 or 20 or 24 hour notice. A regular freighter certainly won't want to waste an entire day just because it arrived half a day early.
Also note that when you allow for a full day to get from the jump limit to the ground and vice versa, you're allowing 24 hours for something that actually only takes 10 hours with a size A world, less with smaller worlds. That leaves you 14 hours 'slack', roughly what you need to compensate for being as late as jump variation ever makes you.
So I stick with my figure of 10 days turnaround, and I could give you a good argument for 9 days turnaround (But I won't
).Hans
Last edited:
You're leaving out bureaucracy, traffic control, and landing. Most starports don't have high ports. And travel time to/from 10D orbit & 100D alone is 2-8 hours. Plus the assorted vagaries of customs, etc... a day each way is a good safe allowance. A day for the actual load/unload, as well is a reasonable safe assumption. Some worlds, you might get by with 2 days turnaround... but not reasonably at most, especially if not an airframe and only 1G. And for a containerized freight freighter, like most Types A and R are shown, it's reasonable to load a container a minute, to the 30 or so containers of the Type A and the almost 50 of a type R. Sure, it is JUST an hour load and unload... once the loader, containers, and paperwork are all together. But they are not likely to actually be at the pad prior to your arrival.
It's that nasty lack of FTL commo rearing its ugly head, again. Once you jump in, yes, they can start arranging it... but unless the warehouse is actually got its own pads (and some will), it is safest to allow the excess and not stress the crew unduly.
The 8 days allowed for jump is to allow for the high-end. If a crew gets lucky, and does it in 7, that's a day's port liberty; in 6, 2 days. But allowing 8 days allows for keeping to that schedule long term.
It's that nasty lack of FTL commo rearing its ugly head, again. Once you jump in, yes, they can start arranging it... but unless the warehouse is actually got its own pads (and some will), it is safest to allow the excess and not stress the crew unduly.
The 8 days allowed for jump is to allow for the high-end. If a crew gets lucky, and does it in 7, that's a day's port liberty; in 6, 2 days. But allowing 8 days allows for keeping to that schedule long term.
As I said, 10 hours at most.
Yes, it is. Which is why there should be no need for any extra time for an extra safe allowance. I'm allowing the same amount of time as the rules allow free traders, plus 24 hours on the ground. Total: 10 days. If anything, regular company ships should get through customs and other red tape faster than reee traders. Not so?
A high-end passenger liner might do so in order to keep a rigid shedule (as I already said earlier). On the other hand, it might not. It's those pesky bank payments. Take the Tukera Longliner [TA:138]. Costs MCr526.4 and carries 36 passengers. Every day it spends on the ground costs it somewhere around Cr90,000. There's only one way to recoup that money, and that's by selling tickets to passengers. Would you pay several thousand credits in order to have a fixed departure date and time, or would you be satisfied with knowing a range of three days and get a 24 hour warning?
Hans
Last edited:
Huh, just used the MGT trade system last night with my players -
The content of their trade runs are wholly opaque usually, they being just crew members on wholly government owned ships that are going on with specifically itemized 'laundry lists' of prioritized goods for the colony.
On this particular run, the fleet captain had discretion to liquidate assets with which to purchase additional ships for the colony's bi-annual convoys. The NPC's had found a 1kton bulk freighter that they could have for a song - only it was damaged and merchant fleet would have to hole up at the world for the duration of the repairs.
Permission was given to all the captains to make a single jump away from the repair system and back. I used this as an opportunity to let the players decide what cargo their captain'd carry, for a chance to share in the profit, and hopefully learn a bit about a Traveller trading system/mini game.
Misreading the first trade run, they only rolled 2D6 on the buy and sell % tables and they still managed to make a killing. (One of the lots was high end Robotic Parts). They'd managed to fill the 80 ton cargo bay easily with under-priced goods ~anyways. Mistakes we'd were caught before the return run, but I didn't backchange anything that'd happened.
About this time I was remembering something I could never fathom from the old system - duplicated here. There were no population restrictions to rolling on the tables for tonnage of available cargo, but freight was population controlled. I seem to remember old Merchant Prince had fixed this, but at the expense of making every 'cargo' blandly generic with a base value of 4k credits.o: The only rationalization I could come up for 'roll all cargo available on a pop 1 planet' was that each world had massive warehouses, regardless of population size and one merchant would be sitting on the ground just WAITING for the PC's to empty his warehouses.
And they'd be full again if they jumped back in a month. High population (not just Hi class worlds, but planets with populations of 7 or 8 codes as well, I'd think - the equivalent of most large first world countries today) worlds on the flipside, I would think would have several times the amount of 'excess' cargo than would be listed.
Getting back to the game last night, I was trying to figure out how you could lose on ANY trade run rolling 3d6 with even an average broker skill, but let that slide just to see how the return trip would play out. After some RP meeting one of the scarier/powerful subsector personalities interested in the PC's stories, they rerolled through the process to find cargo's, got almost the identical available cargos, at almost the exact same markdowns, headed back to their repair system, and sold that at a lesser, but still considerable profit. Rationalization felt a bit weak, but I attempted it. (This Fl class hive-like clone-grown colony underground mining world, shipped these 20 tons of diswashers to this Ag, Ni world, and the Ag Ni world shipped them back ... coffee machines, etc.) Bonuses were paid out and everyone was happy, but I was squinting at the rules a bit weirdly.
An hour or so later, the PC's were finally given use their own 100 ton trade-scout ship to fly back to their home planet. They had dismountable tanks in their cargo bay, effectively cutting cargo in half, but without a given 'laundry list' to carry back the space was available for their first private speculative trade run home.
The large number of mediocre rolls at least made it difficult to pick cargos, but they eventually settled on the equivalent of 20 tons of 'sucrose' at a considerable markdown, which they flew home and made some 200k credits profit. Taking into account even a number of jumps through empty systems, fuel scooping, purifying fuel with the convoy home, (and working back life support, ship operating costs, salaries if the whole run had not been subsidized), they still would have made a profit.
I like the flavor in the tables etc. but even not taking favorable trade codes into account, the system generates way too many options for low to moderate populated systems such that the PC's can always buy SOMETHING (something=equalling enough to fill the entire cargo bay, up to at least 200 tons) low and sell it high guaranteed.
(Is going to take a much longer look at Far Trader now thanks to Whipsnade)
The content of their trade runs are wholly opaque usually, they being just crew members on wholly government owned ships that are going on with specifically itemized 'laundry lists' of prioritized goods for the colony.
On this particular run, the fleet captain had discretion to liquidate assets with which to purchase additional ships for the colony's bi-annual convoys. The NPC's had found a 1kton bulk freighter that they could have for a song - only it was damaged and merchant fleet would have to hole up at the world for the duration of the repairs.
Permission was given to all the captains to make a single jump away from the repair system and back. I used this as an opportunity to let the players decide what cargo their captain'd carry, for a chance to share in the profit, and hopefully learn a bit about a Traveller trading system/mini game.
Misreading the first trade run, they only rolled 2D6 on the buy and sell % tables and they still managed to make a killing. (One of the lots was high end Robotic Parts). They'd managed to fill the 80 ton cargo bay easily with under-priced goods ~anyways. Mistakes we'd were caught before the return run, but I didn't backchange anything that'd happened.
About this time I was remembering something I could never fathom from the old system - duplicated here. There were no population restrictions to rolling on the tables for tonnage of available cargo, but freight was population controlled. I seem to remember old Merchant Prince had fixed this, but at the expense of making every 'cargo' blandly generic with a base value of 4k credits.
o: The only rationalization I could come up for 'roll all cargo available on a pop 1 planet' was that each world had massive warehouses, regardless of population size and one merchant would be sitting on the ground just WAITING for the PC's to empty his warehouses.And they'd be full again if they jumped back in a month. High population (not just Hi class worlds, but planets with populations of 7 or 8 codes as well, I'd think - the equivalent of most large first world countries today) worlds on the flipside, I would think would have several times the amount of 'excess' cargo than would be listed.
Getting back to the game last night, I was trying to figure out how you could lose on ANY trade run rolling 3d6 with even an average broker skill, but let that slide just to see how the return trip would play out. After some RP meeting one of the scarier/powerful subsector personalities interested in the PC's stories, they rerolled through the process to find cargo's, got almost the identical available cargos, at almost the exact same markdowns, headed back to their repair system, and sold that at a lesser, but still considerable profit. Rationalization felt a bit weak, but I attempted it. (This Fl class hive-like clone-grown colony underground mining world, shipped these 20 tons of diswashers to this Ag, Ni world, and the Ag Ni world shipped them back ... coffee machines, etc.) Bonuses were paid out and everyone was happy, but I was squinting at the rules a bit weirdly.
An hour or so later, the PC's were finally given use their own 100 ton trade-scout ship to fly back to their home planet. They had dismountable tanks in their cargo bay, effectively cutting cargo in half, but without a given 'laundry list' to carry back the space was available for their first private speculative trade run home.
The large number of mediocre rolls at least made it difficult to pick cargos, but they eventually settled on the equivalent of 20 tons of 'sucrose' at a considerable markdown, which they flew home and made some 200k credits profit. Taking into account even a number of jumps through empty systems, fuel scooping, purifying fuel with the convoy home, (and working back life support, ship operating costs, salaries if the whole run had not been subsidized), they still would have made a profit.
I like the flavor in the tables etc. but even not taking favorable trade codes into account, the system generates way too many options for low to moderate populated systems such that the PC's can always buy SOMETHING (something=equalling enough to fill the entire cargo bay, up to at least 200 tons) low and sell it high guaranteed.
(Is going to take a much longer look at Far Trader now thanks to Whipsnade)
Perhaps it doesn't work like that in the Far Future, and even the great shipping lines can no longer ensure that degree of reliability in transport.
A large cargo might need a big ship to transport it - but if you have, say, a thousand tons of anagathic precursors to ship in bulk somewhere, and you put it in one cargo hold in one big ship, and that one big ship misjumps, then that's a thousand ton cargo the destination is never going to see, and a whole lot of debt back home.
But if it got broken up and put in the holds of a bunch of smaller ships, at least some of the shipment is likely to get through, because a hundred ships with a bunch of ten ton cargoes aren't all likely to misjump on the same route, are they?
Furthermore, due to the threat of piracy, corporate warfare between rivals etc., a shipping firm cannot afford to put its most precious payloads into its more visible ships because those vessels are clear targets for piracy and hijacking. So the corporations have to hire the more discreet, honest small traders to ship these cargoes on the QT, while the larger vessels run decoy with empty cargo holds, or cargo holds filled with less valuable loads.
Sometimes, it's a double bluff. The tramp traders think they have the real cargo - and so do the pirates or privateers, because the corporation has fed that news to the pirates through a known mole. That gets the pirates off their backs while the real cargo rides home happily in the cargo hold of the big, obvious corporate cargoliner hiding in plain sight.
And lastly, even the largest corporate shipping lines cannot afford to acquire the taint of impropriety, yet they do have to get some cargoes delivered. No matter how illegal those cargoes may be at the destination world, like a shipment of copies of Darwin's "On The Origin of Species" to Pysadi or copies of The Zhodani Dictionary to Jewell.
Hence, free traders operating as private contractors. Verbal contracts, no questions asked and if they get caught, the corporate lines' hands are clean.
Similar threads
General
Lanthan Traders?