Suffice it to say that it is truth, but not the whole truth.
So, uh...
- Thread starter GypsyComet
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The stats thing was my doing, though I may have subconsciously nicked it from some other system or version I played in the distant past.
I have no information about why Liftoff did not get funded - I did what I was contracted to do - which was write - and left the business stuff to 13Mann.
My current Traveller endeavour is a series of supplements for Mongoose. One of which just went up for sale a few minutes ago....
I have no information about why Liftoff did not get funded - I did what I was contracted to do - which was write - and left the business stuff to 13Mann.
My current Traveller endeavour is a series of supplements for Mongoose. One of which just went up for sale a few minutes ago....
I just thought it was a variant on what we've done for D&D and Traveller for years...
D&D games were roll 24D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor, and Traveller was roll 18D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor. Although your system did sound familiar, like from an issue of a fanzine like Imperium Staple, Third Imperium or even Tidewater Traveller Times.
D&D games were roll 24D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor, and Traveller was roll 18D, drop lowest 6, arrange for flavor. Although your system did sound familiar, like from an issue of a fanzine like Imperium Staple, Third Imperium or even Tidewater Traveller Times.
I don't play D&D (not since 1984 or so), so I'm not familar with that. I think I was influenced by a variant system for RQ I saw a long time ago, but truly I don't know where the original idea came from. It was just something in my head under 'always been an option'. Or maybe something from T4? I dunno.
Wherever it came from, it works quite well.
Wherever it came from, it works quite well.
thesmiths4
SOC-8
So, what if there was a Book Zero for T5?
Use a character generation system like the Liftoff product used, with Army, Navy, Merchants, Scouts, Nobles, and Others represented.
Add in task resolution, an abbreviated version of combat, basic mainworld generation, and an equipment section. Put it in a book, like both GDW and Mongoose did. Price it at whatever the cost is to print. (Five bucks?) (Offer it as a download on Drive-thru, too.)
Here's where we go different. The following parts are in a PDF only download (the Referee Package): "how to run a game", "introductory adventure" (with combat maps), character tokens, and deck plans for a Type S, a Type A, and a 50T Cutter. (The tokens and the deck plans and the combat maps are supposed to be printed on cardstock, not regular paper.) Maybe add a one page space battle ruleset, and an aid sheet for task resolution and another for combat. That all sells for ten bucks. (If it was worth it, a hardcopy could probably be made for fifteen bucks.)
If someone kickstarted that, I'd pay 15 bucks to support it, especially if it was (a) T5, and (b) gave the whole kit and caboodle if it's successful. Heck, for five extra bucks, I'd bump to that level if it gave some more ship plans and perhaps added a starter subsector map and a booklet for the worlds in the subsector.
Okay. Start tossing rocks.
Use a character generation system like the Liftoff product used, with Army, Navy, Merchants, Scouts, Nobles, and Others represented.
Add in task resolution, an abbreviated version of combat, basic mainworld generation, and an equipment section. Put it in a book, like both GDW and Mongoose did. Price it at whatever the cost is to print. (Five bucks?) (Offer it as a download on Drive-thru, too.)
Here's where we go different. The following parts are in a PDF only download (the Referee Package): "how to run a game", "introductory adventure" (with combat maps), character tokens, and deck plans for a Type S, a Type A, and a 50T Cutter. (The tokens and the deck plans and the combat maps are supposed to be printed on cardstock, not regular paper.) Maybe add a one page space battle ruleset, and an aid sheet for task resolution and another for combat. That all sells for ten bucks. (If it was worth it, a hardcopy could probably be made for fifteen bucks.)
If someone kickstarted that, I'd pay 15 bucks to support it, especially if it was (a) T5, and (b) gave the whole kit and caboodle if it's successful. Heck, for five extra bucks, I'd bump to that level if it gave some more ship plans and perhaps added a starter subsector map and a booklet for the worlds in the subsector.
Okay. Start tossing rocks.
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nats
SOC-12
Liftoff as an idea was superb, and similar products for D&D have been very successful. However anyone could see from the material being presented that it wasnt the same quality as the D&D Starter Sets and didnt include the things people would want to see from a Traveller starter set like a couple of early adventures, some creature/crew/ship tokens and a battle mat for ground and space battles, and limited sand box rules to allow users to create simple games without recourse to the main Mongoose rules, or more complex games with use of the main Mongoose rulesbook.
mike wightman
SOC-14 10K
Actually, the plan was to include all that stuff.
The sample adventure was only one of six or seven;
plenty of play aids, in colour
The rules were still too complex and needed editing right down, but remember it was all draft and all free for playtest and feedback purposes.
The sample adventure was only one of six or seven;
plenty of play aids, in colour
The rules were still too complex and needed editing right down, but remember it was all draft and all free for playtest and feedback purposes.
A serious shame this didn't work out, and from the reasons I've read here and a few I can put together myself it's not a shock.
Getting a version that's specifically designed to ramp up new/young player is ( I believe ) crucial to the future of any RPG. This on-ramp has to be compelling in its look and feel, easy enough to grok, has to tease about the expansion capabilities of the full game, have a clear body of support materials and very little errata necessary, and it should be designed with a serious factor of "delight" so that news and bits of it gets shared.
Because of my day job, I strongly believe this delight factor needs to be included in the minimum viable product, anything that ships; it's not an option, a "nice to have," or something you'll do in the next version. We'll all buy it regardless. What will make new players buy it?
That'd be key.
Getting a version that's specifically designed to ramp up new/young player is ( I believe ) crucial to the future of any RPG. This on-ramp has to be compelling in its look and feel, easy enough to grok, has to tease about the expansion capabilities of the full game, have a clear body of support materials and very little errata necessary, and it should be designed with a serious factor of "delight" so that news and bits of it gets shared.
Because of my day job, I strongly believe this delight factor needs to be included in the minimum viable product, anything that ships; it's not an option, a "nice to have," or something you'll do in the next version. We'll all buy it regardless. What will make new players buy it?
That'd be key.
An app, or a suite of them, would certainly help. The idea of not doing it all by hand might be anathema to people who "came up" doing it all by hand... but imagine if The new player ( or Referee ) had a suite of apps that were able to do some of the crunchier bits on the fly:
- Here's an NPC, at the touch of a button. And again -touch-, and again -touch-
- Some aspects of a downport, and now saved for later, so the referee can copy them into the session journal
- Here's a "typical" scout loadout for equipment, given my cash on hand and a few set parameters like "eclectic" and "travels light"
- Here's a variant of the Free Trader, all specs, at the touch of a button. Not quite right? Touch the button again, here's another one. Wanna swap cargo space for something else? touch this button here. There we go; perfect to go with on a moment's notice
- This is our ongoing combat sequence, right here. Looks like you're up
- I specify a few parameters, including this particular homeworld, and tap this button for a random compatible sophont, tweakable, savable, exportable, post-able.
And so on.
I think it's possible to have a successful game without supporting apps, but if your goal is adoption by younger people, a tech-savvy generation to be sure, it's probably helpful to have some apps that play by the rules and make the "harder" stuff less-hard, for people that don't enjoy that particular part of what the game can offer.
Tablet compatibility would be sweet, but mobile device works. Non-native web app is doable, and while a native app gives you more flexibility, it might be cost-prohibitive and not really necessary anyway.
Just thinking out loud. Definitely don't mean to hijack.
- Here's an NPC, at the touch of a button. And again -touch-, and again -touch-
- Some aspects of a downport, and now saved for later, so the referee can copy them into the session journal
- Here's a "typical" scout loadout for equipment, given my cash on hand and a few set parameters like "eclectic" and "travels light"
- Here's a variant of the Free Trader, all specs, at the touch of a button. Not quite right? Touch the button again, here's another one. Wanna swap cargo space for something else? touch this button here. There we go; perfect to go with on a moment's notice
- This is our ongoing combat sequence, right here. Looks like you're up
- I specify a few parameters, including this particular homeworld, and tap this button for a random compatible sophont, tweakable, savable, exportable, post-able.
And so on.
I think it's possible to have a successful game without supporting apps, but if your goal is adoption by younger people, a tech-savvy generation to be sure, it's probably helpful to have some apps that play by the rules and make the "harder" stuff less-hard, for people that don't enjoy that particular part of what the game can offer.
Tablet compatibility would be sweet, but mobile device works. Non-native web app is doable, and while a native app gives you more flexibility, it might be cost-prohibitive and not really necessary anyway.
Just thinking out loud. Definitely don't mean to hijack.
you joined in 2001, and have 7 posts? you should hijack more often.
a game, with over-the-hill graybeards who argue about how many bases the darrians had before the maghiz, sure. but the subject was new players. young people today have been surrounded by vast amounts of other people's highly detailed work just handed to them electronically all their lives. many of them never have developed any of their own work, and are poorly inclined to use their own imaginations and effort to construct a game world - they've been stepping into other people's worlds for so long that to them that's just how it's done.
I was being gracious, or trying to be, anyway.
In truth, I don't believe that a modern paper-and-dice RPG with a serious intention of bringing on new blood can reasonably expect to thrive without supporting digital apps.
As to the lack of creativity with today's young people... I'm not sure I'm down. Some, yea. And I know that's the stereotype. But consider this: probably -the- defining computer game of the younger generation is all about creativity - Minecraft. The Extra Credits have an excellent video on this somewhere, and while I know mixing vidgame and paper-and-dice game talk ( or with card game or board game or war game talk, for that matter ) can get complex quick, I wonder if you couldn't make the T5 Player's Guide supporting digital stuff a good mix - here's some apps to help bypass some crunch, but here's some SDK type goodness for people that -really- wanna tweak. Like, on-steriods-tweak.
I also think it's entirely possible to do apps in ways that appease the graybeards. TravellerMap immediately comes to mind as a stellar ( heh ) example. Definitely useful, easy to use, shiny looking, and extensible.
More like that, please. Talk about those apps would drive people to the game. Not all of them would be goofballs. : )
In truth, I don't believe that a modern paper-and-dice RPG with a serious intention of bringing on new blood can reasonably expect to thrive without supporting digital apps.
As to the lack of creativity with today's young people... I'm not sure I'm down. Some, yea. And I know that's the stereotype. But consider this: probably -the- defining computer game of the younger generation is all about creativity - Minecraft. The Extra Credits have an excellent video on this somewhere, and while I know mixing vidgame and paper-and-dice game talk ( or with card game or board game or war game talk, for that matter ) can get complex quick, I wonder if you couldn't make the T5 Player's Guide supporting digital stuff a good mix - here's some apps to help bypass some crunch, but here's some SDK type goodness for people that -really- wanna tweak. Like, on-steriods-tweak.
I also think it's entirely possible to do apps in ways that appease the graybeards. TravellerMap immediately comes to mind as a stellar ( heh ) example. Definitely useful, easy to use, shiny looking, and extensible.
More like that, please. Talk about those apps would drive people to the game. Not all of them would be goofballs. : )
Star Wars does quite well. Pretty much the #3 game, right after Pathfinder.
Only one app is actually approved and supporting the game direct - FFG's Star Wars Dice.
A couple unlicensed Character Sheet apps are available.
D&D 5E is doing really well. #1 selling RPG in all available market data.
The licensed apps are a couple character sheet handlers, and a virtual-tabletop implementation automating much of play. The later, while incredibly popular with VTT D&D 5E players, has little reach outside that. 5E doesn't even have official PDFs.
Several less-than official bits are out there, too - a spellbook app, a couple more character sheet apps, a couple initiative handlers...
Thing is, at D&D AL, the only apps I'm seeing used with any regularity are "5E Character" and "5E spellbook"; both for Android. And I'm the only one I know using the latter.
5E character is really nice. I use it to get new D&D players customized characters. It shortens the process for newbs to about 3-10 minutes, instead of 10-60 minutes with the books.
I know ONE chap using a PC character gen app... because he (not unlike me) has issues with legibility handwritten.
I'm not seeing a whole lot of demand for apps.
I'm seeing a number of new games with support apps - but they usually fall into four categories - Character sheets, initiative, and customized dice apps, with a few having spellbook apps.
Generally, tho', people seem to be avoiding games that need apps...
I'm in complete agreement with the idea that a game ( paper and dice RPG, meant for widespread appeal ) that -requires- apps for play is in for a serious uphill climb, regardless of its intended audience.
I meant "needs" more in the same sense that a game "needs" artwork, or "needs" to be clear and understandable for the intended audience. And the examples you ( Aramis ) give are very relevant, of course. There's definitely a lot of nuance to the matter. To do well, it certainly helps to have a multi-billion dollar entertainment franchise supporting your system, or to have market penetration such that most non-gamers would recognize the name of your game, give it if pressed for an example.
I meant "needs" more in the same sense that a game "needs" artwork, or "needs" to be clear and understandable for the intended audience. And the examples you ( Aramis ) give are very relevant, of course. There's definitely a lot of nuance to the matter. To do well, it certainly helps to have a multi-billion dollar entertainment franchise supporting your system, or to have market penetration such that most non-gamers would recognize the name of your game, give it if pressed for an example.
The real irony is that the character sheet program for D&D 5E isn't by a big name. It's a ≤$5 by a small shop, who got DMCA'd, then permitted to license it...
That is an interesting sentence, that makes my UX architect ears perk up.
It's well designed but is missing one feature for big screen android users (Tabletheads like me - I've a Note Pro... 12" tablet)
The app is Fifth Edition Character Sheet.
The one thing I wish Walt would implement is an "all panes at once in landscape."
Are you seriously claiming that all young people nowadays are unimaginative clods who can't create anything? Wow.
They're just as imaginative as any of us were in our youth. The idea that somehow all or even most young people expect everything to be "spoonfed" to them and are incapable of creativity is one that is (a) totally wrong, (b) peculiar to this board (which does have a well-deserved reputation for being filled with older, more insular players), and (c) pretty insulting to young people, plenty of which are quite imaginative thank you very much.
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creativehum
SOC-14 1K
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