MGT Only: Specs upgrade A2 to A3?

[SpaceBadger]

I am working on a deckplan for a Mongoose Traveller version of an A3 Far Trader, have been told that such a thing exists in MgT version of Traders & Gunboats, but I don't have that book, so am looking for some info from someone who has it.

1) Does the A3 in MgT Traders & Gunboats have a deckplan? (If so, I'm not sure why we're not just using that!)

2) If there is no deckplan, what are the spec changes from A2 to A3? Just a bigger Jump Drive and Powerplant; increased fuel to support J-3; and decreased cargo capacity to still keep it within 200 dTons?

Thanks!

 

[GypsyComet]

This in Mongoose, so there is a deckplan.

The text implies that it is a cross-the board speed increase, but the stats listed are J2, 4G, with just enough fuel to not die.

 

[SpaceBadger]

This in Mongoose, so there is a deckplan.

The text implies that it is a cross-the board speed increase, but the stats listed are J2, 4G, with just enough fuel to not die.

How does it manage to carry any passengers or cargo/freight? I'm trying it from scratch w MgT core ship-design, and I've got 126 tons in it before any payload of staterooms, low berths, or cargo space!

Is there anyplace in MgT rules to give an advantage to building at higher TL, something like reduced tonnage of drives, or better yet reduced fuel usage?

 

[pendragonman]

How does it manage to carry any passengers or cargo/freight? I'm trying it from scratch w MgT core ship-design, and I've got 126 tons in it before any payload of staterooms, low berths, or cargo space!

Is there anyplace in MgT rules to give an advantage to building at higher TL, something like reduced tonnage of drives, or better yet reduced fuel usage?

Have you looked at their version of High Guard?

 

[rancke]

This in Mongoose, so there is a deckplan.

The text implies that it is a cross-the board speed increase, but the stats listed are J2, 4G, with just enough fuel to not die.

Shouldn't an A3 Far Trader have J3? And what merchant wastes space on anything faster than M1?


Hans

 

[SpaceBadger]

Shouldn't an A3 Far Trader have J3? And what merchant wastes space on anything faster than M1?

Yeah, J-3 M-1 are what I'm working on. Still looks rather uneconomical to operate, unless you have a steady source of freight that will pay extra for moving at J-3 rather than J-2. No room for any passengers at all. (Or I could add a few passenger staterooms and have even less cargo space. )

This is an existing game that I am just getting into, they were operating with an old A2 deckplan slightly modified but still not matching the supposed specs, so I'm trying to fix it. Unless they had some advanced J drive that I haven't heard about yet, with decreased fuel consumption by at least half, this thing ain't gonna work.

 

[rancke]

Yeah, J-3 M-1 are what I'm working on. Still looks rather uneconomical to operate, unless you have a steady source of freight that will pay extra for moving at J-3 rather than J-2. No room for any passengers at all. (Or I could add a few passenger staterooms and have even less cargo space. )

According to MgT:Core, you can charge Cr10,000 for a J3 middle passage (And Cr20,000 for High Passage ?!?). I can't find the freight charges, but assuming they are the same as for low passage, it is Cr1,400/dT.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Shouldn't an A3 Far Trader have J3? And what merchant wastes space on anything faster than M1?

The ethically challenged types. This design has "smuggler" written all over it.

 

[SpaceBadger]

The ethically challenged types. This design has "smuggler" written all over it.

Heh. Well, my PC in this game would fit right in with that, but so far I haven't been told that is the mission of the crew. All I know is we have some sort of advanced A3 prototype and are supposed to take it out and make money with it. Exactly what about this ship is advanced I haven't learned yet, but am eagerly awaiting because I can't really make it work as told.

I do know that I could build them a really really nice ship if the advanced J-drive is about half standard size and has 200% fuel efficiency! So far I'm waiting to hear back as to whether I can proceed on those assumptions.

 

[GypsyComet]

Heh. Well, my PC in this game would fit right in with that, but so far I haven't been told that is the mission of the crew.

I was referring to the one in T&G. In-system legs like that are really only for fighting and running blockades.

 

[Xerxeskingofking]

According to MgT:Core, you can charge Cr10,000 for a J3 middle passage (And Cr20,000 for High Passage ?!?). I can't find the freight charges, but assuming they are the same as for low passage, it is Cr1,400/dT.


Hans

Mgt core, page 160, opposite the passenger price table, in the first paragraph of under the "freight" header. and your right, it's the same as low passage.


seems odd to be quoting rules references to you. normally ifs the other way round....

 

[Vladika]

Why not use MT designs as jump fuel is 50% of CT, MgT?

 

[atpollard]

In-system legs like that are really only for fighting and running blockades.

For the typical "arrive 100 diameters from the planet, swap cargo at port, return to the jump limit and leave" scenario, I would generally agree that shaving a few hours off the trip is not worth the extra cost and space.

For a ship designed to operate on a specific route and a world deep within the 100 diameter jump limit of the star, shaving days (each way) off every trip could mean extra jumps per year, which is a justifiable investment.

 

[atpollard]

I do know that I could build them a really really nice ship if the advanced J-drive is about half standard size and has 200% fuel efficiency! So far I'm waiting to hear back as to whether I can proceed on those assumptions.

MgT High Guard allows MD and JD built at 3 TLs above the standard level to be 75% of the volume and 200% of the cost of a standard drive in the core book ...
So that would be a TL 15 Jump-3 drive.
A TL 15 PP is also 75% of the volume and 200% of the cost of a standard power plant in the core book.

When I played with these rules, I found that the cost vs cargo volume drove the cost per dTon to transport cargo up using the high tech options.
I had better luck with the MgT HG rule "There is a 5% price discount per TL for older technology devices if bought new at the source, to a maximum of –30%." (HG pg. 52)

So far I know of nothing except using the MegaTraveller rules that reduces Jump Fuel ... 10% per JN is pretty set in stone for Traveller.
The best fan (IMTU) idea that I had heard involves the fact that water (or ammonia or some other hydrogen bearing chemical compound) holds about double the volume of Hydrogen per dTon as liquid hydrogen,
so one could install enough fuel purifiers to convert the water to LH2 as fast as the Jump Drive needs it (in 1 hour, in 10 minutes, in 1 minute ... you decide how fast the JD consumes LH2).

 

[pendragonman]

The A3 really is smelling like a high speed speculative trader to me. Designed to milk the cream off of the markets before the standard speed freighters can arrive.

Kind of like the China Tea Clippers from the 19th century would race each year's tea harvest from China to London, the first ship to arrive getting the biggest markup for its tea.

If milking spec trade, why bother with passengers, unless they are working passages as part of the crew for a run or two.

 

[SpaceBadger]

Why not use MT designs as jump fuel is 50% of CT, MgT?

I think that is where they got the idea, as the stats on the "concept" model are clearly MT, not MgT. Which reminds me, does anyone know the source of this image? It does not state designer's name or website or anything.

The A3 really is smelling like a high speed speculative trader to me. Designed to milk the cream off of the markets before the standard speed freighters can arrive.

Kind of like the China Tea Clippers from the 19th century would race each year's tea harvest from China to London, the first ship to arrive getting the biggest markup for its tea.

If milking spec trade, why bother with passengers, unless they are working passages as part of the crew for a run or two.

That is looking like the only way to make the ship work, but the MT version above would be much cooler. Awaiting word from GM and other players as to how to proceed. I'm new to the game, and don't want to contradict anything they've already done.

 

[rancke]

Why not use MT designs as jump fuel is 50% of CT, MgT?

Because that would make it unusable for any Third Imperium setting where the MT jump fuel rates do not apply.


Hans

 

[rancke]

The A3 really is smelling like a high speed speculative trader to me. Designed to milk the cream off of the markets before the standard speed freighters can arrive.

If the A3 is a jump-3 version of the A2, it's designed for jump-3 routes. No more, no less. Since jump-3 traffic is the cheapest possible along jump-3 routes, an A3 would have no special advantage. Unless you're talking about a version with an M4 drive instead of an M1 drive?

Kind of like the China Tea Clippers from the 19th century would race each year's tea harvest from China to London, the first ship to arrive getting the biggest markup for its tea.

If you want to maximise the profits of such a race, you wouldn't waste tonnage on a faster maneuver drive. You'd preposition system shuttles with fuel outside the jump limit and aim for that, obviating the need to use your maneuver drive at all.

Or if the markup for the first load was more than 25%, you might use a J4 ship, depending on the astrography.


Hans

 

[GypsyComet]

Speculation that swings on a single free trader's cargo is more akin to stockyard dickering than what the markets do. The big shippers in Traveller don't make the mistake of speculating. They have locked contracts before the shipment leaves port in the first place.

 

[pendragonman]

If the A3 is a jump-3 version of the A2, it's designed for jump-3 routes. No more, no less. Since jump-3 traffic is the cheapest possible along jump-3 routes, an A3 would have no special advantage. Unless you're talking about a version with an M4 drive instead of an M1 drive?


If you want to maximise the profits of such a race, you wouldn't waste tonnage on a faster maneuver drive. You'd preposition system shuttles with fuel outside the jump limit and aim for that, obviating the need to use your maneuver drive at all.

Or if the markup for the first load was more than 25%, you might use a J4 ship, depending on the astrography.


Hans

Hans,

Are there main routes that are at least four systems in a row? Yes?

The average merchant vessel along such a main is a type A, yes? Maybe an A2.

Suppose that the systems are named Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma and are in that order.

Suppose that Alpha makes for export a rare beverage, and this beverage is produced seasonally and relatively cheaply on Alpha, like tea in the 19th century in China.

Suppose that the folks living on Gamma are clamoring for this beverage, and as such the first traders of each trading season can get as much as a 500% profit on his load of this beverage, like England did for tea in the 19th century.

You are trying to tell me that using a J-3 vessel over such a route is of no advantage? It takes the type A at least 3 weeks to bring its load in and the A2 two weeks. In the time it takes the type A the type A3 can make two runs!

Over a strict J-3 route, you are correct. But as someone who has played a speculative merchant's game many times, I very rarely ran my J3 boat over only a J-3 route. More often it was doing exactly as I said, running ahead of the regular trader traffic to skim the cream.