"Star Wars" Esque walkers: Practical?

[archhealer]

Ok, I was just killing time at work designing vehicles, and I decided one of my worlds would have most of their millitary vehicles be legged drive trains; the terrain is rough, and since the population, culturally, isn't very mobile, high-speed warfare goes against their grain. So, I started whipping out designs.

Now, for 100% aesthetic reasons, I just assumed the designs would include a "body" and a "head", since legged vehicles in the movies always seem to be built that way.

The problems arose when I hit the following: When you make really big vehicles, you have huge amounts of 'control' space. And, for no particular reason, it struck me to put the pilot, gunner, electronics op, etc. in the "head" of the vehicle.

Here's the thing: To make it worth putting weapons in the head, it needs to be a turret. A standard turret is fine, really, but still, putting the controls and extra seating and weapons and computers all in a turret wastes a LOT of space.

So, the power plant, all the drive train stuff, and the fuel tanks make up the 'body' and legs of the walker. The controls are where I'm getting hung up. For a 40,000vl vehicle, you need 8000vls of controls. Does it all have to be in one space? What IS all that crap? Huge control panels? Linkages to the rest of the vehicle? Can, say, 6000vls be in the 'body' and the other 2000 in the 'head'?

Which brings us to yet another question: Is there ANY Practical reason to do this type of design? Big, legged vehicles don't seem to serve much purpose, unless you REALLY don't care about fuel efficiency or speed. As the vehicle gets bigger, the drivetrain just keeps getting bigger too, and legged DTs already take up an immense proportion of space in a vehicle.

Also, putting all that equipment in a turret seems cool, but no idea why it might be advantageous, except that all the crew can reach all the controls, including gunnery, without having to run all over the vehicle.

So:

Disadvantages: All the crew is in one place. One good hit could take them all out. Turrets waste a lot of space, so you want to minimize how much space you devote to them. Legged Drivetrains are huge and bulky and slow, and use a lot of power for relatively little thrust.

Advantages: All the crew is in one place. they can all switch seats, take over another station, etc. nearly instantly, without having to run the length of the vehicle or open a hatch to a turret. Offroad terrain really isn't a problem. You can save a TINY bit of space by only pressurizing and climate controlling the cockpit/living areas of a vehicle, like the turret. It would make modular repairs relatively simple (Accessing the weapons systems would not require accessing anything but the 'head' turret, accessing the power plant only involves popping a side hatch, etc. All the systems are fairly isolated.)

Any input here? I really want these to be practical. I just don't know if I can make that work, and may have to whip up a religious reason for such designs

 

[tjoneslo]

Yes, you can split the controls between turret and body. When I was building vehicles I'd assumed the "Controls" included things like frame, controls, access space to engines and mechanical for repair, the extras that make a complete vehicle like headlights, windows, etc.

If you have grav vehicles, legged vehicles (and wheeled, tracked, and other kinds) are all pretty useless. Grav vehicles are too useful.

In reality legged vehicles are slower, more complex and in general less useful than wheeled or tracked vehicles. I haven't found a situation where the legged vehicle exceeds the usefulness of wheels or tracks enought to want to use it.

 

[veltyen]

Heavy weapon support of infantry in broken terrain is about the only role I can think of for a legged vehicle. In that case I tend to go for a slightly chubby version of battledress rather then an AT-ST like vehicle, but YMMV.

If I remember correctly it is easy to have a walker with max speed equal to offroad speed if it is relatively slow. At infantry speeds (max 20kmph or so) this is certainly acheivable.

Of course, this only makes sense if Grav vehicles have some kind of disadvantage. IMTU grav is easy to detect at range, whereas physical drive systems (legged, track, wheel) are somewhat harder, in addition to the grav systems traditional problem of cost.

 

[archhealer]

Well,this planet has grave tech, but only in its early stages. So only a few vehicles have been put into large scale production.

Moreso than the question about whether legged vehicles in general are useful, I was curious if there was any point in putting all the crew in a 'turret'like head?

 

[archhealer]

Well,this planet has grave tech, but only in its early stages. So only a few vehicles have been put into large scale production.

Moreso than the question about whether legged vehicles in general are useful, I was curious if there was any point in putting all the crew in a 'turret'like head?

 

[Pickles]

I seem to recall a real-world 8-legged ATV used by the logging industry. Can't remember the link, unfortunately. But it goes to show that there can be specialist niches for such vehicles, even if they are not ideal for mainstream military applications.

 

[SteveRB11]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:
... If you have grav vehicles, legged vehicles (and wheeled, tracked, and other kinds) are all pretty useless. Grav vehicles are too useful.

In reality legged vehicles are slower, more complex and in general less useful than wheeled or tracked vehicles. I haven't found a situation where the legged vehicle exceeds the usefulness of wheels or tracks enought to want to use it.

If I remember correctly, the explanation for walkers in Star Wars was because mines had been developed that would be set off by grav vehicles. (i.e. George wanted legged vehicles -- apparently other types of mine fusing was considered to have been lost in ancient times?.) Depending on how Star Wars-esque one wants their vehicles to be they should explode when they fall over and can be taken out by being hammered with logs.

The only reason I could see for legged vehicles was if one had reason to be crawling in, around, and through rough terrain and want to be as close to the ground as possible -- somewhat like some of the small NASA exploration robots.

 

[Whipsnade]

Archdealer,

Are walking vehicles like Star Bores AT-AT practical? Hell no, as you've found in your design efforts.

Are walking vehicles like Star Bores AT-AT fun? Hell yes.

Seeing as it's a game, go with the latter. Trying to explain the inexplicable is a waste of time. George Lucas himself first came up with them because they looked 'kewl' and then later mumbled some lame excuses to 'explain' them to the Rabid Lightsaber Owners Association.


Have fun,
Bill

 

[Merxiless]

As long as it is sci fi, and this is all make-believe...

I'd make the thing like a World War II flying fortress bomber crossed with an Assault 'Mech.

top turret, lower aft turret blisters. Side-mounted mantlets.

port and starboard side-mounted, forward firing rocket pods, like a 2.75 cluster / array.

Don't make the head seperate, just put in a torso mounted cockpit at the leading edge of the top forward chassis, with 180 degreee hardened windows/ports or make it electronic scanning vision blocks layed on top of armor that feeds to the cockpit / control center.

Maybe the whole thing packs a central gun that runs the length of the vehicle.

composite laminate armor with some kind of weak to strong repulsor screen, that is too big to be mounted on a tank.

Sure, you might get a mobility kill, but it would keep firing and firing, until it was dead.

A few squads of heavy infantry stashed inside optional, as would be some kind of integral AA laser / other futuristic gun capability.

 

[archhealer]

Well, here's the size breakdown so far; there are two classes of heavy infantry support walkers, 3000 and 6000vls respectively, twolegged vehicles. These have some small to medium sized linked pulse lasers, and as we discovered last night, are fully capable even in small formations of doing some incredibly devestating damage.

There are also three four-legged vehicles, a 15000vl tank, sporting multiple laser weapons, a 40000vl siege vehicle which is slow as hell but very heavily armored and sporting some really big cannons and light laser armaments for point defense/anti infantry, and a 35000vl tender vehicle carrying sickbays, cabins&bunks, vehicle shopes, extra fuel, etc. which is lightly armored and armed, but a little quicker than most of the other vehicles.

 

[veltyen]

What TL?

Details man, details

 

[wordserpent]

In Mega-Traveller's 101 Vehicles, there was the "Dyria Strider" which looked a lot like an AT-AT, except that the driver sat facing the rear of the vehicle and the laser was mounted underneath the carriage.

I think that the Strider was TL9 or 10.

 

[archhealer]

These vehicles are only TL 9. They come from a world with a very entwined religion and government, and they have some odd religious beliefs (Which is why they use walkers!), one of which is that wheels can only be used for peaceful means, and may not be used to transport soldiers or weapons. Which is the magical answer to why they use these incredibly impractical walking things.

I'll post the T20 design specs soonish. They're out in my car right now and I don't feel like going to get them..

 

[wordserpent]

Originally posted by Archhealer:
they have some odd religious beliefs (Which is why they use walkers!), one of which is that wheels can only be used for peaceful means, and may not be used to transport soldiers or weapons.

Hmm...Sounds like a prime market for Grav Tanks and APC's...

 

[archhealer]

Light Assault Walker

This vehicle is the lightest, most basic infantry support in the Punkt Millitary vehicle fleet. (Punkt is a computer-generated random name; yes, I know it's stupid). Note that the size is a little strange, since the entire cockpit, passenger seating, lights, radio, Fire Control Computer, Radar, Laser, and cargo space are all inside the main turret. Also, it is not climate controlled or pressurized. It's not a comfortable ride; These things are all utility.

Class: Legged/Ground EP Output: 20
Cost: 404,010 Agility: 0
TL: 9 Initiative:0
Size: 3000vl(huge) AC: 12
Streamlining: Stnd. AR: 4
Pressurized: No SI: 50
Climate Control: No Visual: Lights, 15m
Drive Train: Legged/2
Passengers: 1(Gunner) Fuel: 72vl
Cargo: 271.5 Crew: 2
Range: 24 hours Sensors: Radar (50km)
Speeds: Comms: Radio(2way,50km)
Acceleration: 8kph
Offroad: 40kph V. Slow: 8kph Slow: 20kph
Cruising:40kph Fast: 60kph Max: 80kph

Weapons Box:
9.4 Mw Pulse Laser, 4d10 dmg

TL9 FCC: Low Basic, Limited Verbal
Gunner Interact, Predict, Select, Return Fire, Anti-missile, Weapon Systems
Gunner/5, +2 (-5Wis, +2Predict)

 

[MrMorden]

Originally posted by Archhealer:
Well,this planet has grave tech, but only in its early stages.

So they can only make zombies, but not like vampires and stuff?

 

[archhealer]

Yeah, that's the idea. The military has two prototype grav vehicles, a recon aircraft that's pretty fast but lightly armed & armored, and a supply vehicle that is slow, heavily armored, but lightly armed, primarily for resupplying it's absurdly slow and cumbersome walking vehicles in the field.