Starship Shields

[apoc527]

Hello all,

I have a hypothetical question for you. Let's say, for a moment, that you wanted to introduce energy shielding into Traveller (not exactly canon, but I don't think it would mess with the universe all that much). How would you go about doing that in T20? Presumably, it would have to differ from the Star Wars system some what, simply because the two systems are rather different. Without doing any real research, I would say that they would act like armor, but only for the Damage Reduction part, and that they would only be able to absorb so much damage.

Anyway, before anyone mentions them, I'm not talking about Black/White Globes. I'm talking about Star Trek/Star Wars/most other sci-fi shields.

Thanks!

 

[Nearside]

I read something this week about the British Army developing electical shielding for tanks that would disrupt incoming shells in some manner... I can't remember where I read it, maybe I imagined it

Point being, I'm sure there could be some basic distruption field that would foul up the circuitry of incoming missiles at the very least...

 

[apoc527]

True, that sounds interesting. SOmething I've noticed, at least about earlier versions of Traveller, is that it tends to somewhat underestimate computer technology. Not as bad as even older sci-fi, but I there are more modern space era games that have pretty uber computer technology. There's something wrong about games that don't even have ready access to PDA's, yet feature interstellar travel and laser pistols. (While it's entirely different, it's still funny: in Cyberpunk 2020, some of their fastest machines run at 30 MHz or something really sad like that. Of course, that was blazing fast in the 80's).

 

[William]

Originally posted by apoc527:
[QB(not exactly canon, but I don't think it would mess with the universe all that much).[/QB]

Actually, I find that shields, of any sort, break the OTU badly.

One of the ideas behind Traveller, though it's rarely discussed like the others, is that naval life and warfare is very Napolianic. Iron men and wooden ships and all that. This may be good or ill depending upon your POV.

Shields are Iron Cladding. They change everything. In the 1840's the USS Constitution could still run down a slaver and claim her last victory. She could not have done so after Monitor and Virginia at Hampton Roads. She was what? 50 years old? A 50 year old ship today is so much scrap metal on the ocean floor. Just look at the General Belgrano (sp?) for an example.

Traveller's ideas of strategic balance are predicated upon a very static world that allows for a certain style of Hornblowerish play. Shields thrash that concept without mercy.

YMMV, obviously.

William

 

[MichaelL65]

Maybe the OTU needs to be messed with!

Seriously, some of the concepts that were cutting edge science back in the late 70's / early 80's aren't even sharp enough to be considered a dull blade today. Since Traveller is supposed to be "hard science," it needs to evolve with the technology. Otherwise it turns into a 1980's version of Space 1889, and that is somewhere I really don't want to go...

 

[Tom Schoene]

Originally posted by MichaelL65:
Maybe the OTU needs to be messed with!

Seriously, some of the concepts that were cutting edge science back in the late 70's / early 80's aren't even sharp enough to be considered a dull blade today. Since Traveller is supposed to be "hard science," it needs to evolve with the technology. Otherwise it turns into a 1980's version of Space 1889, and that is somewhere I really don't want to go...

If you're asking for "hard Scince" then "force firelds" are even less plasusible. The electromagnetic armor conceprts that are being talked about are rreally limite (i.e. worhtless) for space combat. Their purpose is to disrupt shaped charge jets and possible deflect long-rod kinteic energy penetrators. At the relative velocities of weaposn in space combat, it won't do anything at all.

To be honest, I think Traveller's claim to be a "hard science" setting is specious at best. None of the core technologies fo the setting are realisitc (reactionless drive, FTL travel, antigravity, etc.). If you start adding that every new breakthrough tecnhlogy, you get something very different and not very Traveller-like. (In fact, you get something like SJ Game's Transhuman Space.)

When Traveller talks about being "hard science" I think it realy means "realistic," as opposed to "cinematic." In Traveller, explosions in space don't make noise, spaceships don't fly like airplanes, etc.

 

[stormcrow]

O.k., my 2cr...

You want to add Star Trek style shields to Traveller.. what you REALLY need to ask yourself is "what does this add/subtract from the gameplay". Since Star Trek shields seem to just add rechargable armor, why not just design a ship withh beup coup armor? Other than that, what do you get? The 'cool' factor maybe...

Black globes give you the 'cool' factor while making for some interesting role play "ok, you were able to flick on the black globe in time to absorb the nuke, but now your engineer is complaining that the capacitors are dangerously full and you must dump energy NOW! What do you do?"...

White globes approach the 'magic' level of technology in Traveller.. might as well allow anti-matter drives, turret mounted disintegrators and tractor beams. Nothing wrong with role playing like that, but to me it is just no longer Traveller..

I for one like it to be gritty and human scaled (you want to tow that ship? o.k., you all don your vacc-suits and grab some cables.. this is gonna take a while!).

 

[vegascat]

Shields in Traveller Oh No!!!

Nuclear dampers are??? shields agains incoming nuke misiles?
A Meson screen is??? a shield against the most common big spinal mount?
Armor is??? shield against everything else?
Black globes are??? cool shields against everything
White globes are??? I WANT ONE ON MY SHIP!!! shields
The tech of the different shields comes into play.
At what TL are Antimatter power plants introduced, around 18
Disentigrators, about 18
Bonded superdense armor, don't recall

The point is, Traveller has had shields ever since LBB5 High Guard.

 

[MichaelL65]

Originally posted by Tom Schoene:
To be honest, I think Traveller's claim to be a "hard science" setting is specious at best. None of the core technologies fo the setting are realisitc (reactionless drive, FTL travel, antigravity, etc.). If you start adding that every new breakthrough tecnhlogy, you get something very different and not very Traveller-like. (In fact, you get something like SJ Game's Transhuman Space.)

When Traveller talks about being "hard science" I think it realy means "realistic," as opposed to "cinematic." In Traveller, explosions in space don't make noise, spaceships don't fly like airplanes, etc.

Well, explosions in space will never make noise, FTL travel is theoretically possable (even though it requires more energy than we can create at this point), and lasers have proven to be rather useless as weapons ("What are you going to do? Blink him to death?").

In a universe where there are multiple races and sub-races each developing technology, it should not be too "unscientific" for one part of space to come up with a completely different way to do things at the same tech level as another. The only exception would be when there really is only one way to do it (such as the fundemental shape of an airplane wing, or in the OTU the jump drive).

Consider the Ancients - a long standing sub-plot in the CT universe. Those who are familier with the Traveller cannon know that nearly every Ancient site had completely different technology than the others, yet there was really only a handful of them. But they came up with vastly different ways to do things. This lends itself to allow for very different technologies being developed by competing governments, research labs, megacorporations, etc. (including space ships that could fly like airplanes).

Unless you really want Traveller to become Space 1980

 

[kafka47]

I thought the prevailling consensus was that Traveller was a Hard Space Opera... It will take what is the best of Space Opera and then apply pseudo-Science to make it credible, unfortunately, there is not a single Hard SF game on the market. I really do have high hopes for the new Instellar Wars Milieu will see a quasi-return to Hard SF, as the Terrans will have to reinvent the wheel** for all sorts of Space Science that the Vilani would take as natural.

**or I guess make that Jump-2 & Jump-3 but also how to survive and fight in a very hostile environment, ie Space.

 

[DrSkull]

Perhaps you can replace Sandcasters with an energy shield. Make something just as effective as Sand, but call it shields instead. This will maintain balance, but give you the "shields" you want.

 

[apoc527]

Thanks everyone for all your replies. However, what I was really hoping for was a suggestion on game mechanics, not the effect it would have on the OTU. I've played Traveller for years, and I'm pretty aware of what adding energy shields would do to it, I'm more interested in using the T20 system for a homebrew world than futzing with basic Traveller. (Though my personal opinion is that shields are basically rechargeable armor, like another poster said, and I just don't see them affecting the universe all that much...maybe ships will have slightly less "solid armor" and a bit more shielding, but overall, the change would be minor).

 

[ArchTangent]

unfortunately, there is not a single Hard SF game on the market.

I must de-lurk to address this. (Hi, everybody!)

For a hard science fiction game, you should check out a game from Dream Pod 9 called Jovian Chronicles. Since it's anime inspired, it has the required giant robots. However, the setting is such that if giant robots don't match your idea of hard SF, you can replace all the exo-armor references with simple(!) space fighters and not do any violence to the setting. It's set entirely within our solar system, folks have to worry about reaction mass for their craft, the space combat system is vector-based, and it takes weeks to get from planet to planet. Our humble Sol system is plenty big for a full campaign.

The game leans toward military campaigns, as there's a cold war going on between Jupiter and Earth, but the setting is complete enough that you can be Martian freedom fighters, or SolaPol investigators, or Mercurian traders or whatever floats your boat.

The Spacer's Guide supplement is particularly good, and might have some good stuff to use in your Traveller game.

 

[Traveller #1]

Just thought like I had to reply to this. (please forgive me, it's late and English is not my first language).

I think the whole issue with screens or not is a matter of taste. By this I mean that I am a total gear-head and there is nothing more that I would like to design than my own weapons and my own space ships and my own armor etc. For me, T20 is my best and ultimate chance of making my own sci-fi (with d20 and I'm absolutely loving what I'm seeing so far) campaign come to life but not being canon traveller (too many dislikes - no genetics, inferiour computers, bad cybernetics being the main issues) and so I'd love/die for some ways to customize the weapons/ships/equipment.
¨Hoping I'm making myself clear.

Thomas

 

[tjoneslo]

Originally posted by apoc527:
Thanks everyone for all your replies. However, what I was really hoping for was a suggestion on game mechanics, not the effect it would have on the OTU.

You want cruchy bits. OK, try this on for size: Star Trek Force Field Generator. Code 1 - 9, which adds to Armor Factor of the ship. In T20 terms, this add to AR and AC. EP Cost is 0.2 times 1% of the ship size times Code. E.g. a 20,000 ton ship with a code 4 STFFG requires 20,000 x 0.01 x 4 x 0.2 or 160EP. Like white/black globes, they are effective against all incoming fire. Unlike white/black globes, the energy isn't dumped into the ships capaciters, but simply scattered into space. Size is 0.5 times 1% of the ship size time Code. E.g. the above ship requires 400 dton to mount the STFFG. Cost is 1Mcr per ton. Call it TL18.

This makes the STFFG about 1/2 the size of armor, with a power requirement like Meson screens.

Anyone want to playtest this?

 

[vegascat]

Other ways to use canon material for "shields" Types of metals used for armor varies by TL. Everything from steel, crystal iron, superdense, bonded superdense, neutronium.
As I recall, the bonded superdense required a constant charge to keep it bonded togather. this means, add power to the armor, and the armor is harder to damage.
By overcharging the armor, what kind of effects could we expect? Energy based weapons used against it would experience a feedback surge from the charge, disrupting the incoming powerflow, reducing damage.
Any discussion on this?

 

[vegascat]

Does anyone have the stats for defense systems handy? Could you post them here so we can all be locking at the same items?

 

[gardclan]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:You want cruchy bits. OK, try this on for size: Star Trek Force Field Generator. Code 1 - 9, which adds to Armor Factor of the ship. <snip>[/QB]

Good start. If you really want the trek feel, you probably want the shields to degrade with combat.

Maybe you can add "circuit breakers" or whatever you want to call them... these would be the mechanism that dumps said power back into space... these things overheat after taking specified amounts of damage... and shut down for a couple of hours. This allows your shields to become reduced in effect with damage... hence the "Shields down to 50%" effect.

The effect would be like ablat armor. Say that the shields loose a factor for every 1pts/size class or so larger than "huge" of damage against them?

 

[vegascat]

High tech shields. Hmmm. Start with generators that suck power like a jump engine. Add Projectors on the hull, make them aimable or angleable. Power from hits would be dumped into capacitor banks which can burn out. Sounds like Star Wars here. It might work for TL19 or better.

 

[William]

Originally posted by tjoneslo:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by apoc527:
Thanks everyone for all your replies. However, what I was really hoping for was a suggestion on game mechanics, not the effect it would have on the OTU.

You want cruchy bits. OK, try this on for size: Star Trek Force Field Generator. Code 1 - 9, which adds to Armor Factor of the ship. In T20 terms, this add to AR and AC. EP Cost is 0.2 times 1% of the ship size times Code. E.g. a 20,000 ton ship with a code 4 STFFG requires 20,000 x 0.01 x 4 x 0.2 or 160EP. Like white/black globes, they are effective against all incoming fire. Unlike white/black globes, the energy isn't dumped into the ships capaciters, but simply scattered into space. Size is 0.5 times 1% of the ship size time Code. E.g. the above ship requires 400 dton to mount the STFFG. Cost is 1Mcr per ton. Call it TL18.

This makes the STFFG about 1/2 the size of armor, with a power requirement like Meson screens.

Anyone want to playtest this?</font>[/QUOTE]Hrmmm.... With the power requirements it makes it be an interesting tradeoff to carry this. I'll have to try a couple of quick ships and see. Thanks for an interesting idea.

William