Starting age variances? House rules?

[MichaelL65]

I noticed that only a couple of exceptions are made for starting age, and those solely for a couple of classes. But my experience is that starting off life at 18 isn't too close to real-life. I've known many who graduated early or late from high school - far too many to accept that it is so rare that it can just be ignored in character generation.

Here is my suggestion for a work-arround. If the character's education is greater than 11 they can check for early graduation. Make a DC15 (INT modifiers apply) and the character graduated 1d2 (+ INT mod, but can't be greater than 4 or less than 0) years early. The character's EDU is reduced to 11 and the starting age is reduced by the modified die roll.

If the EDU is less than 9, the character can check for late graduation. Make a DC15 (INT mods apply) and the character graduated on time (just didn't retain the knowledge) Otherwise they graduated 1d2 (- INT mod - add negative and subtract positive, but the result can't be greater than 4 or less than 0) years later, the EDU is raised to 9 and starting age increased by the modified die roll.

Comments?

 

[themink]

I think you have it exactly the wrong way arround.

If the character has a high education, they left the system late (I they became highly educated)

Whereas if they have a low education, they left school early (or didn't retain much)

So probably IMTU, if your Education is less than 10, I would allow you to start at 14 if you wish - otherwise, you will be in school till at least 18. I'm still thinking things through, but that seems reasonable to me.

 

[MichaelL65]

Originally posted by The Mink:
If the character has a high education, they left the system late (I they became highly educated)

Whereas if they have a low education, they left school early (or didn't retain much)

That would be assuming that they learned at the "normal" rate. I've known several who finished highschool a year or two late, and several who finished a year or two early. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens often enough that there should be optional rules to allow for it.

 

[themink]

A Little flex is a good thing. See my topic about "I'm confused about Education".

I have been tempted to say "If you leave school at 14, roll Edu with 2D6. If you go on till 18, roll Edu with 3D6" (Probably allowing the - thrown an extra dice and discard one)

I haven't decided yet - still thinking, and my rule change will probably change more, the more I think about it.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

I think the person who shortens schooling for higher EDU has the right of it.

But I also think the argument the other way as valid.

I've seen people finish school early because they dropped out. and I've seen bright kids graduate early.

I think 14/18 makes a workable baseline.
a median or a mode rather than a hard and fast standard.

if you want to vary it let a player of a bright character (int 12+) apply their int mod/2 round up. to either increasing their EDU or decreasing their starting age, their choice.

And give poorly educated characters (edu 9-) the choice of starting as many years early as their edu 'bonus' or increasing their edu to 10 by increasing their starting age by same.

just a quick solution off the top of my head.

 

[rmiracle]

I think we have to look at Education from what it is. In D&D INT is a combination of reasoning and knowlege. In Traveller, those were split, Int was reasoning, logic, problem solving, etc. Education was learned knowledge.

It is very possible that two 18 year olds graduating the same high school will have different education levels.

Traveller has always been about simplicity and the character generation works in 4 year blocks. I don't like the 14 year old start because it doesn't make sense. The Army, Navy, and Marines are not going to take anyone younger than 18, so what to do with those four years becomes a problem. I doubt the Scouts would take a non-18 year old too. That leaves Merchants and Rogues from the original 6 classes where one might be able to start at 14.

Some people can graduate early, and others quit early, but rarely is that at 14, its more like 16-17 or so. Since Traveller prior history deals in 4 year blocks, it makes the rules simple to group them in to the 18 year olds.

As prior history develops, there are chances for INT and EDU to go up. This would represent attending night school, taking a sabbatical or employee traning as part of that four year term.

EDU shouldn't be looked at as what education you have completed but how much knowlege you have and there are some 18 year old high school students who have the same amount of knowedge as some college graduates. So that 12 EDU doesn't mean you have a BS in Biology. It means you have the same amount of knowledge in your head.

Hopefully my T20 will show up today so I will know more about this age 14 start, but from a CT/MT view point, its just wrong and doesn't make sense.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

The age 14 start is limited to two (2) character classes.

Barbarians - logical assumption. Barbarians can be people with a tech nearly as high as that of General Wolfe. Who was a 'sucessful' General and then a corpse at age 17.

and Belters - since belters Get alot of the training 'on the job' as it were. that makes sense too. They basically 'home schooled' in between fixing a fault occilator/overthruster or doing a mineral survey on a pottential claim.

My own suggestion would limit characters pretty much to starting out at age 16 and ready for university. (doogie hauser did better than that) or increasingly and devastatingly poorly educated the earlier they left. The way the system works, having such a character start in Rogue or Traveller or even merchant (stows away and get's made an apprentice) WORKs for me.

 

[Simon Jester]

I'm a little heretical when it somes to starting age; I've just about always run it that everyone starts their prior history at 16, with rogues, belters and barbarians starting at 12. The rogues start this early as members of streetgangs, etc.; only after they've proven themselves do they get access to additional training to make them more useful to their orgainzation. The belters and barbarians start early due to having to help support their families. The rest I rationalize as benefiting from the improved Imperial educational systems, which do not take a quarter of the year off (as most of our schools do here in the US) in a tradition reflecting the need to allow the kids to help their parents bring in the crops. That and improved individually-targetted lessons help the students learn at an accelerated rate. Of course, not all planets make use of these Imperial benefits, and some students just can't learn as well as others, reflected by the wide range in EDU scores.

Also, given the increase in lifespan and improvement in elder health levels that I've seen in my lifetime, I've pushed back the onset of aging rolls one term, with an additional term between the first and second aging rolls. This later adjustment supposes, however, that the character has access to higher-tech (TL 11+) medical care.

Simon Jester

 

[MichaelL65]

Originally posted by Anton Devious:
Traveller has always been about simplicity and the character generation works in 4 year blocks. I don't like the 14 year old start because it doesn't make sense. The Army, Navy, and Marines are not going to take anyone younger than 18, so what to do with those four years becomes a problem. I doubt the Scouts would take a non-18 year old too. That leaves Merchants and Rogues from the original 6 classes where one might be able to start at 14.

Many who graduate early are heading for college - you left out Academic class - and while the armed services might not allow a younger person to enlist, they might well be open to OTC.

Some people can graduate early, and others quit early, but rarely is that at 14, its more like 16-17 or so. Since Traveller prior history deals in 4 year blocks, it makes the rules simple to group them in to the 18 year olds.

My grandpa graduated HS at 14. I've known at least two others (who were arround my age) that did so at 15.

Yes it is not the everyday occurance, which is why I proposed a high DC (15) for there to be even a chance. Average roll is only going to get you out 1-2 years early anyway - it would be rather rare for someone to do so at 14-15 even with my suggested rules - only those with high INT (mod of +1 or greater) would really have a chance. There is also the possibility that it will backfire if your INT mod is -1 (don't bother if it's -2 or more) and your EDU is reduced and you still didn't graduate early.

As prior history develops, there are chances for INT and EDU to go up. This would represent attending night school, taking a sabbatical or employee traning as part of that four year term.

EDU shouldn't be looked at as what education you have completed but how much knowlege you have and there are some 18 year old high school students who have the same amount of knowedge as some college graduates. So that 12 EDU doesn't mean you have a BS in Biology. It means you have the same amount of knowledge in your head.

True. Although I only have an associate degree, I have more college credits than it takes to earn a doctorate (I had some trouble making up my mind ). However it could be an indication of early/late graduation.

Hopefully my T20 will show up today so I will know more about this age 14 start, but from a CT/MT view point, its just wrong and doesn't make sense.

Well, in many cultures here on Earth, it is custom for a person to be considered an adult arround age 14. Most of them are somewhat primitive cultures, which is why a Barbarian class character would be quite in line with that as the starting age.

Nothing magic happens at age 18. Not in real life anyway. The legal system will recognize a person that age as an adult, but the reality is there is a maturity factor that has some at the age of 14 ready for the world while others never achieve that in their lifetime.

Like I said, I've known too many who graduated early or late to consider it just too rare to have an option for it. My suggestion is just a way I came up with. If anyone has a different idea of how to do that I'd like to hear it.

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

My idea is in already in there in previous posts? what do you think?

 

[MichaelL65]

Originally posted by Garf:
My idea is in already in there in previous posts? what do you think?

Sorry, Garf. I'd missed it.

Not sure I follow you on the high-side, but the low-end one looks workable. I've run into my share of people who dropped out of HS too, so that should be a consideration as well. Usually they don't make much of themselves though, they usually end up working at McDonalds for minimum wage...

Also, some of my "play testing" my set of rules shows that it is a bit too easy for a character to get out at 14. I'll have to work on this some more...

 

[PapaGolfWhiskey]

On the high side. I simply expanded the University rule (Edu 12+ reduces bachelor from 4 to 3 years) and factored in Intelligence.

Basically a high int and average+ EDU character can do one of two things. They can Add 1/2 of their int attribute bonus to their EDU and still graduate at 18. OR They can keep their EDU the same and Subtract 1/2 their INT bonus from their starting age. Since it's unlikely a character will have a starting int of 22+ this means the best the player can do is adjust by a factor of '2' (and That's with an int of 18)

As for the low edu rule: resulting in either an early dropout or a late finish (if the character choses to stay in until they're Edu reaches 10)

Here basically the character can choose to either 'start young' and begin prior history at 18 - (Edu Mod) OR they can stay until done. and gain an EDU 10 at the cost of not starting Prior history until 18 + (The integer value of their original EDU mod).

IE.. A character with an EDU of 7 (mod -2) can 'drop out' at 16 (18-2) OR Stay until 20 (18+2) and get an edu 10 out of the deal.

I think being a high school drop out makes a great start for some kinds of Rogues or merchants. Maybe even lo-mid tech army. (As recently as WWI the brits had 12 year old naval ratings. Even some of their rulers so served)

This rule should only be applied to characters who would otherwise start prior history at age 18.

The Barbarian is assumed to have dropped out so early that he never started.

The Belter is basically being home schooled and ...'They grow up fast on the frontier...or they don't grow up at all'

IMO and needs playtesting but I may try it out on my next wave of Chargens