Starting Gurps Traveller - need advice...

[Pyrrhic Victory]

Folks,

I've gone back and read most of the newbie threads on this, but there are still some things that I need some advice on.

First, some background - I'm a long time Traveller player with tons of legacy product from CT, MT, TNE, T4 as well as a hefty load of Gurps Traveller stuff (GT 2/e, BTC, First In, Far Trader, Starports, Star Mercs, Aliens 1 & 2). My players have a varied background, but none have ever played Gurps. While I have Gurps 3/e and compedium, I've never actually run or played Gurps.

I'm looking to run the Sci Fi equivalent of Dungeon Fantasy Adventures - i.e., a Gurps Lite+ powered game. Intent would be to hand the players Gurps Lite, some pages with defining whatever additional advantages and skills I chose to include, and character templates using only those skills and advantages. Gurps character creation, while powerful and customizable, can be overwhelming to the uninitiated, so I want to make this as quick and easy as possible for folks. The game will be in the Spinward Marches and use both GT and legacy materials.

Onto the questions:

A - 3rd ed or 4th ed? I have 3rd ed and the upgrade kit. I'm willing to get 4th ed if its worth it. I'm already reworking the templates, so there's no more work to using 4th ed for that. Many (most) of the NPCs are CT, so the conversion effort will be the same there as well. The real question is whether 4th ed is that much better in its mechanics. As to the crunchy bits.....

B - Crunchy bits - I'm seriously considering keeping Traveller Tech levels and using some other engine for vehicles/spaceships/guns with all the damage converted back to Gurps. This would negate some of the 4th ed / 3rd ed issues, I think. Guns, guns, guns & VDS from BTRC, the old Fire, Fusion and Steel from TNE and the T20 stuff are all candidates. Anyone have any experience with this?

C - What skills and advantages not in Gurps Lite are essential?

Has anyone tread this path before? Help?

Thanks!
Ed

 

[chshrkt]

Ahh, I see that you have already posted on the SJG forums, I was going to suggest that.

 

[Pyrrhic Victory]

Yes, I have. However, this place is more likely to have folks that have grafted other things onto Gurps....

 

[Jeffr0]

Definitely 4e. While I'm nostalgic for the original GURPS 2e with hand-tailored worldbooks (Humanx, Horseclans, Autoduel...), the middle GURPS period consisting of books that require one or more "compendiums" (illustrated with sophmoric Smif art no less) was exceedingly painful and unwieldy. GT 2e went overboard "requiring" Space and Ultra-tech books while omiting playable trade and world generation systems. Things improved with the 4e GTIW book which distilled the most relevant bits of Far Trader and First In into a more usable form and included key alien races information as well.

Me? I wanted to play *Traveller*... and adapting generic supplements to already generic rules seemed like a lot of work. I wanted more of the old style free-wheeling J Andrew Keith type feeling, but instead I was agonizing over jump masking, power slices, and economic threory. I wanted to know everything about the aliens... but the Hiver 3e template was just insane. I simply could not keep track of the significance of all the various advantages and skills. I never managed to parse enough of the rules to set up a simple space combat, either. Fortunately, you have enough legacy materials that you won't endure the pain that I did trying to reconstruct CT based on the super-sized systems of the GT line.

But really...

4e rocks for characters. I would almost ignore many of the over-complex GT 2e templates and convert and customize CT generated characters instead. See especially the Wildcard skills which got a lot of fleshing out in the Supers 4e book. Talents are also a cool addition to the game. Keep in mind that Kromm never intended for you to understand and synthesize all of the GURPS rules into your game. You're supposed to pull out only the bits you want to make your own rules-light custom game-- something more along the lines of the old 2e world books. The GT 2e racial and career templates are bogus because they assume you want to be a GURPS connoisseur-- the stuff is downright overkill.

For space combat, stick with something that can actually be played-- like Mayday, maybe. Book 2 combat with the range band modifications made in Starter Traveller is probably your best bet for an rpg space combat system. (I personally like the fun computer rules better than the GURPSified "realistic" ones. They provide a nifty gimmick along the same vein as the psionics stuff for the players to go huntin' for while they're tradin' and adventuring.)

Yes, ignore GT tech levels and stick to the real thing.

I think the rule for picking skills and advantages should be this: only use stuff that you won't have to "research" to actually use in the game. (The example characters in GURPS 4e are just plain nuts in this regard-- way too detailed.) Start with a "cheat sheet" listing the ones that express the stuff you want in your game along with notes on how they interact with the rules... and grow into the other stuff on an as-needed basis.

My main problem with it all is the equipment. GURPS starts with "reality" and you're supposed to work around that. But what is "jack" armor anyway? It's whatever Marc Miller envisioned it to be and defined via the CT rules. Flavor is much more important to me than "realism." (And surprisingly, there was no equipment stuff in GTIW!! Argh!) If you look at the GT 4e rules, though-- particularly Powers and Supers-- you can see that you really can define just about anything you want with only the character rules. If you know the exact flavor of what you're trying to make... you can just go build it yourself the GURPS 4e rules. I wouldn't get caught up with trying to define things well enough for the forums crowd. Just set up some of the key "flavorful" items from CT and fake the rest with the generic stuff in the GURPS core book.

In summary, if I was running a 4e game, I would use CT Books 1-3, Starter Traveller, Supplement 4, and the aliens modules as a foundation. I would use GT 2e's rules to convert CT characters to GURPS. I would lean heavily on secondary attributes, the more general advantages, custom talents, and 4e Super's wildcard skills to *sketch* out character concepts for play. And I would use 4e/Powers/Supers as a guide for specifying equipment with the same rules that are used to define character abilities. Gurps Lite's combat system is completely sufficient for what I'd want to do... and I wouldn't dig into the 4e Campaigns book rules until they'd really become old hat. But leave Striker and Striker-like stuff out of your game. And don't try to use GURPS as a sort of Fire Fusion & Steel 3.0. That's just pointless and doesn't have anything to do with, you know... *playing* Traveller. Especially if you're going for a Dungeon Fantasy Adventures style *lite* campaign.

Don't forget... GURPS is not a game; it's a building material. It's a meta-game you can use to define any rpg you want to play. Treat it like a library for use in making your own gaming "bible" and you're good to go.

 

[weasel fierce]

Definately the 4th edition. I was a big fan of third, but 4th is an amazingly complete game. PLus, the interstellar wars book is extremely well done

 

[Britti_Lover]

GURPS 4th edition is much easier to create a character in than previous editions. GURPS lite can create a basic character, but for space skills you need a copy of GURPS Traveller. GURPS Space will also give you a good character but one that is not tailor made for the Traveller universe.

The quality of GURPS 4th edition is really high and is much appreciated.

I do like the GT:IW concept of Terra losing the Interstellar wars. What would happen? The Imperium is stagnant and not gaining TLs at any rate. Terra is gaining TL and making new scientific discoveries every day.

The Imperial capture I assume would be exactly the same or very similar as the one that happens after the Solomani Rim war - Terra is captured intact in the 4th Interstellar war and after years of occupation goes to home rule and then becomes a subsector capital. It would continue to increase TL level (jump-3 drives and meson cannons, etc and this would re-energize the Imperium and the Imperium as a whole would increase TL. Terra once again would be a major world in a Stellar Empire - highest TL and economy in the Imperium period.

The Imperium would now include the Solomani Rim area and the Vagrr Extents - making it much larger than the Third Imperium. TL would be 12 across the board with some backwater worlds lower.

 

[daryen]

I personally suggest one of the following two paths:

1. Use GURPS 4e and ISW. Since you have all the setting information you need, this works well enough. "Fake" whatever you need to fill in any gaps between what ISW gives and what a 3I campaign needs.

The advantage is that you use the current stuff, and you introduce the players to "real" GURPS. The disadvantage is that you have to fit and fix the non-4e bits over to 4e to make the 3I setting work. (Unless you want to adventure in the ISW setting. If that is what you want, go for it. It is truly "plug-n-play" at that point.)

2. Get GURPS Lite 3e (NOT 4e) and use it in conjunction with what you have. If you don't have a skill mentioned, delete it. If you don't have an ad/disad, delete it. Other than that, play it all straight up.

Unlike the 4e version, GURPS Lite 3e is an actual complete game. The GT 2e sourcebook gives you all of the "Traveller" equipment you need. The Basic Trade system from Far Trader gives you a complete trade system. You have First In and Star Merc for those types of gaming. Just play them straight with GURPS Lite.

The disadvantage is that you are using "old" stuff and "can't use" everything. The advantage is that everything you need is there. You don't have to convert anything. You don't have to guess. Just plug and chug.