startplaying.games shows 17 Traveller games looking for people...

[casquilho]

If you were on Compu$erve, you were paying for that experience the first time.

No, I was paying for access to CompuServe. Same as I pay for access to the internet now but I do not say I paid to read your post. You did not pay to play a game on CompuServe or to play on several games. And I for sure did not send $20 a week to someone who ran a game on CompuServe.

Please do not try and twist things. It is not the same and you know it.

 

[Tobias]

A solemn vow: I am never ever going to pay to participate in a tabletop RPG session, live or online, as a player. Nor will I ever ask, let alone require payment from people for my refereeing/GMing such sessions.

RPGs are a social activity to be enjoyed with likeminded people. Turning them into some kind of service borders on the perverse in my eyes.

P.S.: The only exception would be something like a charity auction for a session run by a famous designer or something like that.

 

[Enoki]

A solemn vow: I am never ever going to pay to participate in a tabletop RPG session, live or online, as a player. Nor will I ever ask, let alone require payment from people for my refereeing/GMing such sessions.

RPGs are a social activity to be enjoyed with likeminded people. Turning them into some kind of service borders on the perverse in my eyes.

P.S.: The only exception would be something like a charity auction for a session run by a famous designer or something like that.

I would say you are like 98% correct. If you were someone who was running games for cash, I'd say you need to have a massively better product than if it were free. That way people who were willing to play and pay, would feel they're getting their money's worth for the activity. That is, you'd need to have a top-notch scenario / scripted game with wow visuals where it starts to at least approach an older mmorpg put out by some game company. That would make paying worthwhile as you are adding content and increasing the enjoyment (hopefully) of participating in the game.

That is, you are getting something for your money.

The D&D spinoff Critical Role livestream is like that, for example.

 

[Tobias]

That is, you are getting something for your money.

That's actually a big part of what I find abhorrent about this. RPGs are a social leisure activity for me. To burden them with "I need to get my money's worth" or "I need to perform for the payment I'm given" would completely kill that.

I've never gotten the appeal of "Critical Role". Next door to zero interest.

 

[Enoki]

That's actually a big part of what I find abhorrent about this. RPGs are a social leisure activity for me. To burden them with "I need to get my money's worth" or "I need to perform for the payment I'm given" would completely kill that.

I've never gotten the appeal of "Critical Role". Next door to zero interest.

I'm just pointing it out. If the storyline / scenario / script being used was really awesome, and the players / referee were good, it might be worth paying a small fee to play. If it's typical RPG stuff, you're right it's better a social leisure activity than some pay to play thing.

 

[whartung]

$20.00 a session. What are they smoking?

Just reminds me back when my friends and I though about getting back into some kind of RPG thing (D&D, whatever).

One of the guys found a DM. I don't know where, I don't know if he was paying him, or what.

He sent us some links and said "Here, read these Pathfinder rules..."

I told him "Look, I'm not reading any rules. You can tell me what I need to know. But if we're not killing monsters within 15m of sitting down to our inaugural session, I'm walking. I don't want to spend a night rolling up characters or any of that. I don't want to forage in an inn for Clues or anything. I want to hit the ground running, you can teach me what I need to know as we play."

I simply didn't want to spend hours "doing nothing" and have the crew fall apart (a very real possibility). We might just have one night of play, and if the DM can't teach me with a rolled up character what I need to play for a night, its the wrong DM, or the wrong game.

Beer, pretzels, dead orcs in the hallway.

Can you imagine dropping $20 to sit in "town" for 3 hours?

Forget that.

 

[Enoki]

Some people have that kind of spare change, and that much of a need for that form of social interaction.

I'm not one of them.

I have that kind of spare change, but I have it because I don't throw it away on something so frivolous as this.

 

[Enoki]

Just reminds me back when my friends and I though about getting back into some kind of RPG thing (D&D, whatever).

One of the guys found a DM. I don't know where, I don't know if he was paying him, or what.

He sent us some links and said "Here, read these Pathfinder rules..."

I told him "Look, I'm not reading any rules. You can tell me what I need to know. But if we're not killing monsters within 15m of sitting down to our inaugural session, I'm walking. I don't want to spend a night rolling up characters or any of that. I don't want to forage in an inn for Clues or anything. I want to hit the ground running, you can teach me what I need to know as we play."

I simply didn't want to spend hours "doing nothing" and have the crew fall apart (a very real possibility). We might just have one night of play, and if the DM can't teach me with a rolled up character what I need to play for a night, its the wrong DM, or the wrong game.

Beer, pretzels, dead orcs in the hallway.

Can you imagine dropping $20 to sit in "town" for 3 hours?

Forget that.

Whereas I like games where you are solving puzzles, problems, and having to come up with ways to make something happen that's challenging. If there are lots of dead bodies along the way, that's fine by me. But I'm not much into Sam Peckenpaugh sort of buckets of bloodbath and little more stuff.

Of course, you have to make the problems and such at the right difficulty level for the group. Too hard and they lose interest because of frustration, too simple and there's no reward for solving things and moving forward.

Now, what really is a dreadful bore as an RPG is a DM that runs things like an accountant... That is, you are always scrambling to get enough cash to buy ammo, or food, or whatever, and that's what ends up driving the game. On that same note, I also despise the GM that hands everything to you on a silver platter. You have a little gunfight--which you easily win--then you get millions in credits and buy (or find) an impossibly powerful ship, and...

 

[kilemall]

Whereas I like games where you are solving puzzles, problems, and having to come up with ways to make something happen that's challenging. If there are lots of dead bodies along the way, that's fine by me. But I'm not much into Sam Peckenpaugh sort of buckets of bloodbath and little more stuff.

Of course, you have to make the problems and such at the right difficulty level for the group. Too hard and they lose interest because of frustration, too simple and there's no reward for solving things and moving forward.

Now, what really is a dreadful bore as an RPG is a DM that runs things like an accountant... That is, you are always scrambling to get enough cash to buy ammo, or food, or whatever, and that's what ends up driving the game. On that same note, I also despise the GM that hands everything to you on a silver platter. You have a little gunfight--which you easily win--then you get millions in credits and buy (or find) an impossibly powerful ship, and...

On the latter served on a platter style, Dragon magazine back in the early single digit issues was already mocking that kind of DM. Presumably it was already an issue.

The article series called them Monty Haul dungeons after the game show host.

TSR - The Origin of Monty Haul

The time is 1975. I'm a substitute teacher and I've learned how to play D&D at Gary Gygax's house. He and his family are wonderful hosts. Every Saturday in warm weather we are playing on his side porch. The group is Gary's son Ernie in 9th grade; some of Ernie's friends, and some of Gary's adult...

www.enworld.org

 

[Daidoji Dave]

I've never played in a paid game, never run a payed game, don't plan to do either. Still, I will offer a partial defense.

GMs usually spend more than players do on rulebooks and adventures, and that cost rises with VTTs if used. I've always played in groups where nobody minded, but I can easily imagine wanting those costs offset. Especially online where nobody can bring snacks for the group in lieu of cash money.

Some I've seen advertised, you pay after the game, on the honor system. Pretty obviously not getting back in if you skip, but if you have a terrible time some games offer that recourse.

The unofficial Traveller Discord channel has more demand for GMs than players. Games usually fill pretty quick, and players pretty much always need to be on board with the GM's game pitch. I can see someone with money to burn deciding $20 a week is cheaper than a night out. Plus maybe the GM works with you more on character concept than a traditional GM with a specific game in mind.

Again, not my thing, but it doesn't do me any harm either.

 

[casquilho]

The unofficial Traveller Discord channel has more demand for GMs than players.

I have been playing and GMing RPGs sense the late 70's and I have never ever seen any game or site or group that did not have this issue.

Being the GM is not an easy job. Often thankless. Often frustrating. As for on-line, I have to laugh every time I see a post that starts out "anyone interested in a game of X?" Then when folks say yes, the poster says "Great who wants to GM?" and the thread dies.

So having said this, I will say I do not want to pay for a GM, I understand why there is a demand enough that the option exists.

 

[aramis]

If you were on Compu$erve, you were paying for that experience the first time.

Delphi had some forums that were internet accessible without membership. They outlasted Delphi as a dial-up service by several decades now. Still up.
Compuserve likewise had forums up and outside the paywall (with adverts) in the 00's; the CIS forums shut down in 2017.

 

[aramis]

I've never played in a paid game, never run a payed game, don't plan to do either. Still, I will offer a partial defense.

I've run player–paid games. There are two kinds of paid-game players I've met without an external, and 3 more across paid games in general...

1. The ones who are so toxic they can't find a group, but need a game for their own psychological reasons.
   1. I sometimes call this "There to play the players, Not the Game" — and that's the most common toxic player mode I've encountered.
   2. These are not worth minimum wage, not even the high min of Oregon $13.75/Hr to $15.95/hr, let alone federal $7.25/hr... at least not for me. Last I ran for such a group, it was $5/player/session, making my 4 hour sessions a bit over then-minimum $4.35/hr
2. The ones who want a game that everyone at table is there to actually play and proves it by pay.
3. Forever GM types who want to actually play instead of run.
4. Novices who have no clue how to find/create a home game
5. Someone there to learn a specific game by play.

Most of them were type 1.
Types 2, 3, 4, and 5 are becoming more common.

I've also been compensated for running games at stores.
These seldom met minimum wage, and were compensation in product discounts or product.
Note that the type 2 in this category usually aren't paying to play, but they're still there to have a game that's genuinely focused on play, not hangout. Many Con games I've noted are mostly type 2 or 3, tho one group, the would-be player sat in on a session to see how it flows... a year later, they're running a table at the store... My current store game, however, is a group of friends...

I've been to several local conventions where running a couple sessions got one comped entry for the con.
Con players HAVE paid for access... and it's always going to be one-shots at cons, but it's a good way to try new games. Most of the Con players are there to play the game, not the other players... But I've seen two who were there to get their jollies from being a pain... both removed from the cons in question. Mostly types 2 and 3... tho' the occasional novice shows up to experience the game... in one case, after playing several con sessions, said novice formed their own home group... and ran a one shot the following con.
Type 5 players tend to be a fixture of bigger conventions... because there's often little support for rarer games outside the conventions.

 

[whartung]

Most of them were type 1.

Well, man, that's too bad. Just the kind of people you couldn't pay me to play with.

I've been to several local conventions where running a couple sessions got one comped entry for the con.

I've done that in the past, and it was a lot of fun.