snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
What is the range of homing, target designated, and target memory tac missiles?
How do you figure out the speed of a missile?
How do you figure out the speed of a missile?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Striker Book 3 Tac Missiles: Range and Speed installment 6
- Thread starter snrdg082102
- Start date
Tac missile ranges are based on either propellant or the controlling comm system whichever is the least.
There is nothing to work out tac missile speeds (drone missiles have speeds as per grav vehicles). You can design high speed missiles - useful vs high speed agile aircraft and grav vehicles.
There is nothing to work out tac missile speeds (drone missiles have speeds as per grav vehicles). You can design high speed missiles - useful vs high speed agile aircraft and grav vehicles.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Howdy Shield,
Thanks for the reply.
Here is how I think propellant weight is determined:
Weapons range in kilometers determines the weight multiplier
Range Weight multiplier x (warhead weight + guidance weight) = propellant weight.
For operator guided missiles the links of wire, laser, and maser the maximum range is determined by cross-referencing the link system technology level on the operator guided missile table from the DST on page 13.
For the radio link used in both operator and teleguided systems the power of the radio determines the maximum range.
Homing, target designated, and target memory the designer inputs the weapons range.
Does the above sound right?
Tac missiles as a whole do not have a speed, a high performance tac missile does not have a speed, but has a DM generated for each 10% of propellant installed above the base propellant weight. The DM modifies the targets speed DM.
How I got a clue?
Thanks for the reply.
Tac missile ranges are based on either propellant or the controlling comm system whichever is the least.
Here is how I think propellant weight is determined:
Weapons range in kilometers determines the weight multiplier
Range Weight multiplier x (warhead weight + guidance weight) = propellant weight.
For operator guided missiles the links of wire, laser, and maser the maximum range is determined by cross-referencing the link system technology level on the operator guided missile table from the DST on page 13.
For the radio link used in both operator and teleguided systems the power of the radio determines the maximum range.
Homing, target designated, and target memory the designer inputs the weapons range.
Does the above sound right?
There is nothing to work out tac missile speeds (drone missiles have speeds as per grav vehicles). You can design high speed missiles - useful vs high speed agile aircraft and grav vehicles.
Tac missiles as a whole do not have a speed, a high performance tac missile does not have a speed, but has a DM generated for each 10% of propellant installed above the base propellant weight. The DM modifies the targets speed DM.
How I got a clue?
...Here is how I think propellant weight is determined:
Weapons range in kilometers determines the weight multiplier
Range Weight multiplier x (warhead weight + guidance weight) = propellant weight.
For operator guided missiles the links of wire, laser, and maser the maximum range is determined by cross-referencing the link system technology level on the operator guided missile table from the DST on page 13.
For the radio link used in both operator and teleguided systems the power of the radio determines the maximum range.
Homing, target designated, and target memory the designer inputs the weapons range.
Does the above sound right??
More or less. Striker Book-1, rule 19, describes how a gunner selects a target for the missiles. That process restricts the range, since a gunner can't shoot what he (or a spotter) can't see:
"Operator Guided: An operator guided missile is flown to the target by the gunner. The gunner must be able to see the target to direct the missile ..."
"Target Designated: Target designated tac missiles will guide themselves to targets which are "painted" by a spotting laser. ... The designator must have a clear line of sight to the target ..."
"Homing: Homing missiles contain sensors designed to detect and home in on sources of magnetic or thermal emissions. ... Homing missiles may be fired from popups, but may not be fired at vehicles performing popups unless the vehicle is also visible in its NOE position."
"Teleguided: Teleguided missiles are essentially the same as operator guidedmissiles, except that the gunner does not have to have a clear line of sight to the target after the missile is fired."
"Target memory missiles contain both a TV camera and thermal and magnetic sensors ... Target memory missiles may be fired from popup, but may not be fired at a vehicle performing a popup unless the vehicle is also visible in its NOE position"
So, a missile could have a very great range, but the gunner - or the designator, in the case of a laser-guided missile - needs to be able to spot the intended target at the time of launch (and in some cases up until the point of impact), which sets a practical limit on missile range. I think a radar or ladar set could be used for that, at least with certain guidance types: the rules use the words "see" or "visible", but the world is full of semi-active radar homing missiles that depend on a radar signal being bounced off the target by the launching craft. Still, line of sight with radar/ladar is still limited to the effective radar horizon: if a potential target is some ways away and below the horizon, in effect below the curve of the planet, you don't have a line of sight.
Tac missiles as a whole do not have a speed, a high performance tac missile does not have a speed, but has a DM generated for each 10% of propellant installed above the base propellant weight. The DM modifies the targets speed DM.
How I got a clue?
Yup. No need for a speed: the missiles are supposed to either hit or miss in the phase they're launched, they don't linger on the battlefield, so there's no need to evaluate their speed - just whether or not they hit.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Morning Carlobrand,
Thanks for the help and clarifications.
My questions in this installment are to help me format a summary page with the details of the tac missile system in the event I share a design.
On the summary page I'm thinking that the format could be something like:
TL 9 Tac Missile
Warheads weigh 1.75 kg each their characteristics are:
Type: Price; Characteristics
HE: Cr7 Contact Pen:19; Ground Burst Size:3; Air burst Size 6; Frag Pen: 3
KEAP: Cr7 Contact pen: 30
KEAPER Cr7.7 Contact pen: 2
etc.
Guidance: Operator Radio link maximum range: 15 km
Propellant: 27.7 kg
Launcher: Twin arm rail launcher (similar to the Terrier launcher on old USN surface combatants)
Thanks for the help and clarifications.
My questions in this installment are to help me format a summary page with the details of the tac missile system in the event I share a design.
On the summary page I'm thinking that the format could be something like:
TL 9 Tac Missile
Warheads weigh 1.75 kg each their characteristics are:
Type: Price; Characteristics
HE: Cr7 Contact Pen:19; Ground Burst Size:3; Air burst Size 6; Frag Pen: 3
KEAP: Cr7 Contact pen: 30
KEAPER Cr7.7 Contact pen: 2
etc.
Guidance: Operator Radio link maximum range: 15 km
Propellant: 27.7 kg
Launcher: Twin arm rail launcher (similar to the Terrier launcher on old USN surface combatants)
More or less. Striker Book-1, rule 19, describes how a gunner selects a target for the missiles. That process restricts the range, since a gunner can't shoot what he (or a spotter) can't see:
"Operator Guided: An operator guided missile is flown to the target by the gunner. The gunner must be able to see the target to direct the missile ..."
"Target Designated: Target designated tac missiles will guide themselves to targets which are "painted" by a spotting laser. ... The designator must have a clear line of sight to the target ..."
"Homing: Homing missiles contain sensors designed to detect and home in on sources of magnetic or thermal emissions. ... Homing missiles may be fired from popups, but may not be fired at vehicles performing popups unless the vehicle is also visible in its NOE position."
"Teleguided: Teleguided missiles are essentially the same as operator guidedmissiles, except that the gunner does not have to have a clear line of sight to the target after the missile is fired."
"Target memory missiles contain both a TV camera and thermal and magnetic sensors ... Target memory missiles may be fired from popup, but may not be fired at a vehicle performing a popup unless the vehicle is also visible in its NOE position"
So, a missile could have a very great range, but the gunner - or the designator, in the case of a laser-guided missile - needs to be able to spot the intended target at the time of launch (and in some cases up until the point of impact), which sets a practical limit on missile range. I think a radar or ladar set could be used for that, at least with certain guidance types: the rules use the words "see" or "visible", but the world is full of semi-active radar homing missiles that depend on a radar signal being bounced off the target by the launching craft. Still, line of sight with radar/ladar is still limited to the effective radar horizon: if a potential target is some ways away and below the horizon, in effect below the curve of the planet, you don't have a line of sight.
Yup. No need for a speed: the missiles are supposed to either hit or miss in the phase they're launched, they don't linger on the battlefield, so there's no need to evaluate their speed - just whether or not they hit.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Howdy Richard,
I cross checked my copies if Striker LBB 3 and FFE 00 5 Striker Book 3 with the material from Srikers Useful Tables book Errata and Donald McKinney's Consolidated CT Errata v07 which are:
Book 3 – Equipment:
Pages 21-22, Design Sequence 9: Tac Missiles, B – Launchers (omission): All tac missiles have a signature DM of +2. A tac missile warhead is a low velocity round; it weighs .05 times the weight of a CPR round, not half. A vehicle-mounted tube launcher weighs twice the weight of a missile; a field-mounted launcher weighs 4 times the weight of a missile. A magazine launcher weighs twice the weight of a missile plus half the weight of a missile for each space in the magazine.
Design Sequence Tables:
Page 13, Propellant Table (correction): The tac missile propellant table has been changed, as shown below.
PROPELLANT TABLE
Range (km) Weight Multiplier
1 x1
1.5 x1.5
2 x2
2.5 x2.25
3 x2.5
3.5 x2.75
4 x3
Increase the weight multiplier by .1 for every km of range over 4. The multipliers given are for tech level 7; add 1 at tech level 6.
Everthing cross checked so I am guessing that I used the errata for JTAS 12.
I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to list everything yet, my example is loosely based on the Self-propelled Autocannon on Striker Book 3 page 30.
However, my calculations indicate that a single launcher is 19.635 kg and tow should come in at 39. 27 kg without the rotation mechanism that allows the launchers to be rotated like a turret from the ship's centerline.
Did you include the errata for tac missiles found in JTAS 12. It details changes to warhead weight and propellants?
I cross checked my copies if Striker LBB 3 and FFE 00 5 Striker Book 3 with the material from Srikers Useful Tables book Errata and Donald McKinney's Consolidated CT Errata v07 which are:
Book 3 – Equipment:
Pages 21-22, Design Sequence 9: Tac Missiles, B – Launchers (omission): All tac missiles have a signature DM of +2. A tac missile warhead is a low velocity round; it weighs .05 times the weight of a CPR round, not half. A vehicle-mounted tube launcher weighs twice the weight of a missile; a field-mounted launcher weighs 4 times the weight of a missile. A magazine launcher weighs twice the weight of a missile plus half the weight of a missile for each space in the magazine.
Design Sequence Tables:
Page 13, Propellant Table (correction): The tac missile propellant table has been changed, as shown below.
PROPELLANT TABLE
Range (km) Weight Multiplier
1 x1
1.5 x1.5
2 x2
2.5 x2.25
3 x2.5
3.5 x2.75
4 x3
Increase the weight multiplier by .1 for every km of range over 4. The multipliers given are for tech level 7; add 1 at tech level 6.
Everthing cross checked so I am guessing that I used the errata for JTAS 12.
PS. How much does the guidance system weigh?
Cheers
Richard
I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to list everything yet, my example is loosely based on the Self-propelled Autocannon on Striker Book 3 page 30.
However, my calculations indicate that a single launcher is 19.635 kg and tow should come in at 39. 27 kg without the rotation mechanism that allows the launchers to be rotated like a turret from the ship's centerline.
Last edited:
Thats different than the errata in JTAS 12
They have the weight multiplier = range, so range = 3.5km multiplier is 3.5.
Above 4km, it is +0.5 to range multiplier for each extra KM. TL6 systems add 1 to range multiplier.
I wonder where they got these changes from. Do you have a link to these errata
Cheers
Richard
They have the weight multiplier = range, so range = 3.5km multiplier is 3.5.
Above 4km, it is +0.5 to range multiplier for each extra KM. TL6 systems add 1 to range multiplier.
I wonder where they got these changes from. Do you have a link to these errata
Cheers
Richard
Last edited:
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Morning Shield,
Here is the address for Donald's Traveller site: http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/trav.html
The information on propellant, my best guess anyway, is from the errata on the last page of th Usetul Tables Book which states "The books in this set are from the 5th printing ( which is the second edition)."
Here is the address for Donald's Traveller site: http://dmckinne.winterwar.org/trav.html
The information on propellant, my best guess anyway, is from the errata on the last page of th Usetul Tables Book which states "The books in this set are from the 5th printing ( which is the second edition)."
Thats different than the errata in JTAS 12
They have the weight multiplier = range, so range = 3.5km multiplier is 3.5.
Above 4km, it is +0.5 to range multiplier for each extra KM. TL6 systems add 1 to range multiplier.
I wonder where they got these changes from. Do you have a link to these errata
Cheers
Richard
Last edited:
Thats different than the errata in JTAS 12
They have the weight multiplier = range, so range = 3.5km multiplier is 3.5.
Above 4km, it is +0.5 to range multiplier for each extra KM. TL6 systems add 1 to range multiplier.
I wonder where they got these changes from. Do you have a link to these errata
Cheers
Richard
JTAS 12 errata is described as errata to Striker first printing.
Snrdg's numbers are identical to the numbers included in an errata sheet that came with my boxed set. That errata sheet identified it as errata to the second printing. Ergo, Snrdg's numbers are the more up-to-date numbers.
snrdg082102
SOC-14 1K
Hello Shield,
My guess that I used the errata from JATS 12 page 40 was incorrect based on Carlobrand's and Shield's replies. I should have pulled the three FFE books that have JTAS Issues 1 to 33 and verified that the errata. I did pull the books and have confirmed my answer was out to lunch.
Thanks Carlobrand for the clarification.
My guess that I used the errata from JATS 12 page 40 was incorrect based on Carlobrand's and Shield's replies. I should have pulled the three FFE books that have JTAS Issues 1 to 33 and verified that the errata. I did pull the books and have confirmed my answer was out to lunch.
Thanks Carlobrand for the clarification.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 8
- Views
- 466
