Striker DS 2 CPR Gun test

[snrdg082102]

Evening all,

Here is a test of my abilities to use Striker Design Sequence 2.

Gun type: Towed 8.8 cm High Velocity CPR Gun (Tech Level 6)
Weight: 4,257 kg; Price: Cr 100,140
Crew; Normal/Min: 7/2

Num. of targets engaged: 1

Direct Fire Data:
Direct Fire Control: Effective: 1 km; Long: 2 km; Extreme: 3.5 km
Gun: Effective: 60 cm; Long: 100 cm; Extreme: 250 cm
Gun with KEAP/KEAPER rounds: Effective: 80 cm; Long: 150 cm; Extreme: 300 cm

Indirect Fire Data:
ROF: 4
Range: 18 km (27 km for RAP rounds)
Accuracy: -3 up to 1/2 range; -7 over 1/2 range (-7 up to 1/2 range; -11 over 1/2 range for RAP rounds)
Set-up time: 18 turns
Signature DM: +2

Ammunition Data
Round weight: 18 kg each (36 kg for RAP rounds)

HE: Price Cr 72; Contact pen/burst size/fragmentation pen: 15/2/2
KEAP: Price Cr 72; Contact pen, effective/long/extreme: 31/30/29
KEAPER: Price Cr 79.2; Contact pen, effective/long/extreme: 29/28/27
HEAP not KEAP: Price Cr 108; Contact pen: 26
Illum: Price Cr 144; Illumination radius/time: 65 cm/2 turns
Ch. smoke: Price Cr 144; Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/4 turns
In. smoke: Price Cr 72; Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/2 turns
Chemical: Price Cr 144; Cloud Size/Agent/virulence/time/effect: 2 x 2 cm/persistent/lethal/game ends/death

CBM, Flechette, and Chaff not available at TL 6

Features Data
RAP: Price Cr 72, no rounds use this feature

Laser guidance and variable ballistics not available at TL 6

I used the interpolation method from TNE FF&S for my numbers.

 

[shield]

two sets of KEAP stats - I assume the 2nd one is actually CBM

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning Shield,

two sets of KEAP stats - I assume the 2nd one is actually CBM

Thanks for the catch being lazy I copied the KEAP line for the HEAP round and forgot to edit the round name. CBM, flechette, and chaff rounds are not available at TL 6.

 

[Carlobrand]

...I used the interpolation method from TNE FF&S for my numbers.

Why?? I could see using that if you were trying to emulate a modern system for some reason, but otherwise I see that giving you grief if you try to take it into a game with a traditional Striker player. Of course, if you're game-mastering a group of merc players on a Broadsword or some such thing, that's not as much of an issue.

I'm having trouble evaluating your design as I don't do TNE, so I'll let others deal with that. One apparent issue is your KEAP long/extreme range penetrations are off for traditional Striker, but I don't know whether this interpolation method is affecting that.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Carlobrand,

Thanks for the reply and the catch on the KEAP/KEAPER penetration.

Why?? I could see using that if you were trying to emulate a modern system for some reason, but otherwise I see that giving you grief if you try to take it into a game with a traditional Striker player. Of course, if you're game-mastering a group of merc players on a Broadsword or some such thing, that's not as much of an issue.

I'm having trouble evaluating your design as I don't do TNE, so I'll let others deal with that. One apparent issue is your KEAP long/extreme range penetrations are off for traditional Striker, but I don't know whether this interpolation method is affecting that.

Why, because I want to surprise a Striker party or a Traveller with a weapon that is considered to be among the best and most versatile guns built. Looking at real world examples guns with the same bore size from different countries frequently don't weigh the same.

Each bore size has a different weight, which means that an 8.8 cm high velocity gun is not going to weigh the same as either the 8, 8.5, or 9 cm gun.

CT basically rounds up, down, of leaves some decimal values. Unfortunately, something that is not on the list would be the same as one of the standard values.

If I want standard I go with the standard equipment tables, why bother with a design sequence at all.

MT extrapolates by dividing the custom UCP by the nearest lower UCP

TNE interpolation does the following:

1. TNE rounds 8.8 up to 9 and down to 8 cm, TNE doesn't have an 8.5 cm bore.

2. Subtract the lower bore size 8 cm from design bore size 8.8 giving a value of 8.8 - 8 = 0.8

3. To determine the 8.8 cm bore weight do the following:

3A. The 9 cm gun bore weighs 1 ton and the 8 cm bore weighs .66.

3B. Subtract the higher weight from the lower weight: 1.00 - 0.66 = 0.34

3C. Multiply Step 3B by Step 2 to determine the extra weight of the 8.8 cm gun. 0.34 x 0.8 =.272

3D. Add Step 3C to the 8 cm weight to determine the 8.8 cm gun weight: 8 cm weighs 0.66 = 0.932 tons or 932 kg without the CPR Multiplier modifiers.

Of course my numbers seem to be off since I've tried the design again.

The rounds do not use interpolation, however what happened with the KEAP/KEAPER round is that I used 8.5 cm for the round weight and 9 cm for penetration values, instead of 8.5. This means my values are a little high.

I've found a reference for the weights of three real world 8.8 cm rounds, the weights may be a little off since I converted from pounds to kilograms.

HE round with a clock-work fuse weighing about 14.37 kg
HE round with a nose percussion fuse weighing about 14.52 kg
AP tracer round weighing about 14.97 kg.

The weight of the rounds appear to be closer to a Striker 8 cm bore which could justify using the base KEAP/KEAPER round penetration of 22.

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning all,

My non-standard round simulating the World War II German 8.8 cm high velocity gun didn't go over so well, this time I'm testing the example used in DS 2 which is a tech level 9 towed 11 cm medium velocity gun.

I am also working on verifying the Self-propelled 8 cm tri-barrel autocannon example on Striker Book 3 page 30. So far the ammunition costs aren't matching up.

My example also includes references to gun stabilization gear and autoloaders since DS 2 designs can be vehicle mounted. The stabilization gear and autoloader are not used in the example.

My format below is based on the Self-propelled AC example on page 30. I have also included formatting presenting a Chemical rounds characteristics.

In earlier posts I discovered some differences between my results and the ones shown in the example. The items that differ between the example and my work are in bold numbers or text.

A. General
01. Gun type: Towed 11 cm Medium gun (Tech Level 9)
02. Number of targets that can be engaged: 1
03. Wt: 4,887.5 kg; Vol: 4.8875 m^3; Pr: Cr133,950
04. Gun Carriage: Yes
05. Gun Crew: 10/3
06. Gun Shield: Yes
07. Ammunition Carrier: No
08. Ammunition Carrier crew: none
09. Signature DM: +3
10. Gun Stabilization Gear: No
11. Autoloader: No

B. Direct Fire Characteristics:
1. Direct Fire Control System Range: Effective = 2.5 km; Long = 3.5 km; Extreme = 5 km
2. Ammunition: Effective = 100 cm; Long = 200 cm; Extreme = 350 cm
3. KEAP/KEAPER: Effective = 150 cm; Long = 250 cm; Extreme = 400 cm

C. Indirect Fire Characteristics:
1. ROF: 4
2. Range: 24 km (36 km for RAP rounds)
3. Accuracy: +2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range (+2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range for RAP rounds)
4. Set-up time: 20 turns

D. Ammunition Data:
01. Rounds weigh 35 kg each (70 kg for RAP rounds)
02. HE: Price: Cr105; Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen.: 10/3/3

I just noticed that the HE Contact pen value is wrong the correct value is 19. I hit the zero key when typing but I saw a 9.

03. KEAP: Price: Cr105; Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 33/30/27
04. KEAPER: Price: Cr115.5; Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 31/28/25 (30/28/25)

My KEAPER rounds effective range penetration is higher than the value shown in the example. Per DS 2 Step L 03 Striker Book 3 page 15 KEAPER rounds are the same as KEAP rounds with 2 subtracted from the penetration at all ranges. The KEAPER rounds effective penetration should be KEAP value 33 - 2 = 31 not 30.

05. HEAP: Price: Cr157.5; Contact pen. 41
06. CBM: Price: Cr315; Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen/hit DM: 21/12/7/+1
07. Flechette: Price: Cr525; Contact pen./hit DM/danger space: 2/+6/10 cm
08. Illum: Price: Cr 210; Illumination radius/time: 84 cm/2 turns
09. Chaff: Price: Cr210; Effect radius/time: 84 cm/2 turns
10. Ch. Smoke: Cr210; Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/6 turns
11. In. Smoke: Cr105; Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/2 turns
12. Chemical: Cr210; Agent/Virulence/Cloud size/agent effect: Persistent/non-lethal/2 x 2 cm/Game ends/Serious wound

E. Features
1. RAP; Price: Cr105, no ammunition uses RAP
2. Laser Guidance; Price: Cr800, no ammunition uses laser guidance
3. Variable Ballistics; Price: Cr 80, no ammunition uses variable ballistics

I'll be posting another attempt at the 8.8 cm gun later with two data cards. One using the design sequence without figuring for the difference in size and a second one using the TNE process of interpolation.

The later post will be if my work with the DS 2 example works out correctly.

 

[snrdg082102]

Hello Carlobrand,

I've revisited the issue with eighty-eight's KEAP penetration values for long and extreme range you mention on 9/15/2012.

One apparent issue is your KEAP long/extreme range penetrations are off for traditional Striker, but I don't know whether this interpolation method is affecting that.

There were two issues, the first as detailed in my reply on 9/15 was using 9 cm instead of 8.5 cm for establishing the KEAP penetration at effective range.

The second issue I discovered after completely rebuilding my spreadsheet was that I used the bore size instead of the effective penetration value, interpolation was not the culprit.

The new results I just posted for the 11 cm gun example in Striker Book 3 matched with the exception of the KEAPER effective penetration value.

Thanks again for taking a look at the non-standard design and catching the error with my calculations.

 

[snrdg082102]

Evening all,

I've modified the spreadsheet I created for DS 2 to reflect the requirements of DS 3 Autocannons and checked the data for the TL 9 Self-Propelled Tri-barrel 8 cm Autocannon example on page 30 of Striker Book 3.

I'm not sure that my numbers for weight, volume, and price of the gun are correct since those numbers don't appear to be included with the example.

As mentioned earlier none of my ammunition prices match with the example. The RAP feature's price doesn't match either.

Three of my rounds have one characteristic that doesn't match the example:

HE frag pen I get 2 and the example has 3
CBM my hit DM is +0 with the example lists +1
By my calculations the Flechette round has a danger space of 5 cm not 10 cm

My ROF is 365 and the example has 340

I've done a manual check and my numbers are still not matching the examples. Hopefully my numbers on accurate, however if not can someone let me know how to get the numbers in the example.

Here is what I came up with:

A. General
01. Gun type: Vehicles mounted 8 cm tri-barrel low velocity autocannon (Tech Level 9)
02. Number of targets that can be engaged: 16
03. Wt: 1,186 kg; Vol: 1.186 m^3; Pr: Cr81,660
04. Gun Carriage: No
05. Gun Crew: 1/1
06. Gun Shield: Yes
07. Ammunition Carrier: No
08. Ammunition Carrier crew: none
09. Signature DM: +2
10. Gun Stabilization Gear: No
11. Autoloader: No

B. Direct Fire Characteristics:
1. Direct Fire Control System Range: Effective = 2.5 km; Long = 3.5 km; Extreme = 5 km
2. Ammunition: Effective = 100 cm +6; Long = 200 cm +5; Extreme = 350 cm +2
3. KEAP/KEAPER: Effective = 100 cm +6; Long = 200 cm +5; Extreme = 350 cm +2

C. Indirect Fire Characteristics:
1. ROF: 365 (340)
2. Range: 12 km (18 km for RAP rounds)
3. Accuracy: +2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range (+2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range for RAP rounds)
4. Set-up time: 8 turns

D. Ammunition Data:
01. Rounds weigh 14 kg each (28 kg for RAP rounds)
02. HE: Price: Cr28 (52); Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen.: 15/2/2 (15/2/3)
03. KEAP: Price: Cr28 (52); Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 26/24/22
04. KEAPER: Price: Cr30.8 (58); Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 24/22/20
05. HEAP: Price: Cr42 (78); Contact pen. 38
06. CBM: Price: Cr84 (156); Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen/hit DM: 21/12/7/+0 (21/12/7/+1)
07. Flechette: Price: Cr140 (260); Contact pen./hit DM/danger space: 2/+6/10 cm 2/+5/5 cm (2/+5/10 cm)
08. Illum: Price: Cr56 (104); Illumination radius/time: 70 cm/2 turns
09. Chaff: Price: Cr56 (104); Effect radius/time: 70 cm/2 turns
10. Ch. Smoke: Cr56 (52); Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/4 turns
11. In. Smoke: Cr28 (104); Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/2 turns
12. Chemical: Cr56; Agent/Virulence/Cloud size/agent effect: Persistent/non-lethal/2 x 2 cm/Game ends/Serious wound

E. Features
1. RAP; Price: Cr28 (52), no ammunition uses RAP
2. Laser Guidance; Price: Cr800, no ammunition uses laser guidance
3. Variable Ballistics; Price: Cr 80, no ammunition uses variable ballistics

 

[snrdg082102]

Morning all,

I've begun rechecking the Direct fire Ranges on all the stuff I've posted to the forum.

KEAP/KEAPER Direct Fire Ranges for the AC are out to lunch because when I did a copy and paste a failed to adjust the numbers to reflect the modifier of moving down one row:

The corrected KEAP/KEAPER CPR Direct Fire ranges are:

Effective: 150 cm +6; Long: 250 cm +5; Extreme: 400 cm +2

Evening all,

I've modified the spreadsheet I created for DS 2 to reflect the requirements of DS 3 Autocannons and checked the data for the TL 9 Self-Propelled Tri-barrel 8 cm Autocannon example on page 30 of Striker Book 3.

I'm not sure that my numbers for weight, volume, and price of the gun are correct since those numbers don't appear to be included with the example.

As mentioned earlier none of my ammunition prices match with the example. The RAP feature's price doesn't match either.

Three of my rounds have one characteristic that doesn't match the example:

HE frag pen I get 2 and the example has 3
CBM my hit DM is +0 with the example lists +1
By my calculations the Flechette round has a danger space of 5 cm not 10 cm

My ROF is 365 and the example has 340

I've done a manual check and my numbers are still not matching the examples. Hopefully my numbers on accurate, however if not can someone let me know how to get the numbers in the example.

Here is what I came up with:

A. General
01. Gun type: Vehicles mounted 8 cm tri-barrel low velocity autocannon (Tech Level 9)
02. Number of targets that can be engaged: 16
03. Wt: 1,186 kg; Vol: 1.186 m^3; Pr: Cr81,660
04. Gun Carriage: No
05. Gun Crew: 1/1
06. Gun Shield: Yes
07. Ammunition Carrier: No
08. Ammunition Carrier crew: none
09. Signature DM: +2
10. Gun Stabilization Gear: No
11. Autoloader: No

B. Direct Fire Characteristics:
1. Direct Fire Control System Range: Effective = 2.5 km; Long = 3.5 km; Extreme = 5 km
2. Ammunition: Effective = 100 cm +6; Long = 200 cm +5; Extreme = 350 cm +2
3. KEAP/KEAPER: Effective = 100 cm +6; Long = 200 cm +5; Extreme = 350 cm +2

C. Indirect Fire Characteristics:
1. ROF: 365 (340)
2. Range: 12 km (18 km for RAP rounds)
3. Accuracy: +2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range (+2 up to 1/2 range, +0 over 1/2 range for RAP rounds)
4. Set-up time: 8 turns

D. Ammunition Data:
01. Rounds weigh 14 kg each (28 kg for RAP rounds)
02. HE: Price: Cr28 (52); Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen.: 15/2/2 (15/2/3)
03. KEAP: Price: Cr28 (52); Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 26/24/22
04. KEAPER: Price: Cr30.8 (58); Contact pen. Effective/Long/Extreme: 24/22/20
05. HEAP: Price: Cr42 (78); Contact pen. 38
06. CBM: Price: Cr84 (156); Contact pen./burst size/frag. pen/hit DM: 21/12/7/+0 (21/12/7/+1)
07. Flechette: Price: Cr140 (260); Contact pen./hit DM/danger space: 2/+6/10 cm 2/+5/5 cm (2/+5/10 cm)
08. Illum: Price: Cr56 (104); Illumination radius/time: 70 cm/2 turns
09. Chaff: Price: Cr56 (104); Effect radius/time: 70 cm/2 turns
10. Ch. Smoke: Cr56 (52); Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/4 turns
11. In. Smoke: Cr28 (104); Cloud size/burn time: 2 x 2 cm/2 turns
12. Chemical: Cr56; Agent/Virulence/Cloud size/agent effect: Persistent/non-lethal/2 x 2 cm/Game ends/Serious wound

E. Features
1. RAP; Price: Cr28 (52), no ammunition uses RAP
2. Laser Guidance; Price: Cr800, no ammunition uses laser guidance
3. Variable Ballistics; Price: Cr 80, no ammunition uses variable ballistics