General Sword and Planet - Dune like combat but without personal shields

[sekalo]

I started reading a few sword and sandal, and sword and planet books recently, which got me thinking. It can be argued by some, that Dune is borderline 'sword and planet' due to personal shields and knife/sword fights. Due to the latter, it got me thinking of using the GREAT!! 2d6 Classic Traveller rules for a Sword and Planet style of combat on a distant planet (of course a desert world)::smiles::.

What I do like about Classic Traveller is the lack of energy shields, which gives a more darker gritty feeling that is different then what was seen in: Star Wars, Star Trek and Dune (personal shields), which brings me to my question and ideas for brainstorming.

Since I want to keep the environment free of energy shields, should I just use Combat Armor to simulate the personal shields from Dune? Would it be just easier to just say that Armor XYZ blocks all firearm attacks including lasers? Would the latter be to powerful even if firearms are mixed into the environment?

 

[Starglim]

If armour blocks firearms and lasers, it probably blocks swords better, otherwise people would just invent guns that fired sword blades. I think it won't be easy to go around a field effect to block high-velocity attacks but allow the slow blade. It might not look like an energy shield - The Forever War might help.

 

[Condottiere]

I think it has more to do with the aesthetic of unarmoured bodies, and short blades.

Miniaturized repulsor field, which would require sustained pressure to penetrate.

 

[sekalo]

I think it has more to do with the aesthetic of unarmoured bodies, and short blades.

Miniaturized repulsor field, which would require sustained pressure to penetrate.

Yes, something that did strike me odd always about Classic Traveller canon - vehicles that hover with repulsor fields but no energy shield like devices. So, what I could do - working within in the confounds of CT, is that armor has some sort of powered device that blocks fast moving projectiles just like in Dune Holtzman shields, but allows for slow moving blade swings.

 

[sekalo]

If armour blocks firearms and lasers, it probably blocks swords better, otherwise people would just invent guns that fired sword blades. I think it won't be easy to go around a field effect to block high-velocity attacks but allow the slow blade. It might not look like an energy shield - The Forever War might help.

I will check out the recommended book. Thank you - always on the hunt for new scifi books.

 

[kilemall]

You could go with the LoGH answer, gas particles that blow up if hit with lasers, like lashing/shield but without shields. So axes are the preferred weapon.

 

[mike wightman]

If armour blocks firearms and lasers, it probably blocks swords better, otherwise people would just invent guns that fired sword blades. I think it won't be easy to go around a field effect to block high-velocity attacks but allow the slow blade. It might not look like an energy shield - The Forever War might help.

No, it is a matter of momentum.

A sword has a lot more momentum than a bullet, you have a proportion of the mass of the wielder being channeled into the sword blow. Ever seen a kevlar bullet resistant vest attacked with a knife?

 

[Ildefonse]

The Fading Suns game handled shields by having them rated with minimum and maximum threshold ratings: e.g., 5/10, where the first number reflected the minimum damage rolled which would activate the shield (and block all damage) and the latter number the maximum damage which the shield would absorb (any damage points beyond the max would bleed through). So in the 5/10 shield example, and damage from 1 - 4 would get through the shield, anything 5 - 10 would be completely blocked, and anything 11+ would do (rolled damage - 10). Different TL's could have different min/max thresholds.

 

[mike wightman]

"Since I want to keep the environment free of energy shields, should I just use Combat Armor to simulate the personal shields from Dune?"

Yes, high TL combat armour can be completely resistant to small arms and lasers.

It would be possible to build handwavium armour containing non-newtonian fluids and nano-plates that make it very difficult for high velocity projectiles to penetrate, the same fluid could conduct heat away thus make lasers ineffective.

A sharp slow blade will push the fluid slowly out of the way thus there would be less resistance and the blade could get through. A bullet slowed to the same speed lacks the mass/momentum to push through the armour. A sword, mace or axe will cause blunt trauma until someone finds an opening to get a penetrating hit in.

 

[Ildefonse]

Presumably the OP could take whatever ideas are offered and apply them to higher TL Combat Armor. Cheers!

 

[mike wightman]

No energy shields - then people suggest energy shields...

 

[Ildefonse]

Or a mechanic which replicates the Dune energy shields, applied to CT armor? No "shield" involved, just high-TL "science". Cheers!

 

[mike wightman]

An energy shield inside the armour is still an energy shield. There are high TL material science solutions that do not require energy shield handwavium of any kind.

 

[Ildefonse]

Since I want to keep the environment free of energy shields, should I just use Combat Armor to simulate the personal shields from Dune? Would it be just easier to just say that Armor XYZ blocks all firearm attacks including lasers? Would the latter be to powerful even if firearms are mixed into the environment?

You seem to be asking for a "shield-like effect", without the shields, is that correct? In your imagined "Sword and Planet style of combat on a distant planet (of course a desert world)" are folks walking around in John Carter-like battle harness, or CT-like Combat Armor? If the former, you seem to be looking for an effect/mechanic, not a cause. If the latter, why not just use CT-like Combat Armor? Cheers!

 

[sekalo]

You seem to be asking for a "shield-like effect", without the shields, is that correct? In your imagined "Sword and Planet style of combat on a distant planet (of course a desert world)" are folks walking around in John Carter-like battle harness, or CT-like Combat Armor? If the former, you seem to be looking for an effect/mechanic, not a cause. If the latter, why not just use CT-like Combat Armor? Cheers!

I have never read the John Carter books; however, I know of them. I was thinking more along the lines of a sword and armor feudal system world that had the Overlords or high level social class in very expensive armor. Think something like Samurai or Hun/Tang Dynasty armor but with blend of scifi aspects to the armor. This way it is harder for a serf to pick up a laser carbine or a projectile weapon to attack the Overlords.

This forces the society to resort back to training with melee weapons, and who has the most time to train with melee weapons ? The Overlords, since the common lower society members (serfs) are busy producing.

Due to the latter, I was just using the Combat Armor as a drop in replacement; however, I wanted to brainstorm with the community to get ideas.

 

[sekalo]

"Since I want to keep the environment free of energy shields, should I just use Combat Armor to simulate the personal shields from Dune?"

Yes, high TL combat armour can be completely resistant to small arms and lasers.

It would be possible to build handwavium armour containing non-newtonian fluids and nano-plates that make it very difficult for high velocity projectiles to penetrate, the same fluid could conduct heat away thus make lasers ineffective.

A sharp slow blade will push the fluid slowly out of the way thus there would be less resistance and the blade could get through. A bullet slowed to the same speed lacks the mass/momentum to push through the armour. A sword, mace or axe will cause blunt trauma until someone finds an opening to get a penetrating hit in.

I like those ideas thank you.

 

[Ildefonse]

I have never read the John Carter books; however, I know of them. I was thinking more along the lines of a sword and armor feudal system world that had the Overlords or high level social class in very expensive armor. Think something like Samurai or Hun/Tang Dynasty armor but with blend of scifi aspects to the armor. This way it is harder for a serf to pick up a laser carbine or a projectile weapon to attack the Overlords.

This forces the society to resort back to training with melee weapons, and who has the most time to train with melee weapons ? The Overlords, since the common lower society members (serfs) are busy producing.

Due to the latter, I was just using the Combat Armor as a drop in replacement; however, I wanted to brainstorm with the community to get ideas.

Thanks for clarifying: these causes seem more cultural than technological, and the effect is not like John Carter (skimpy battle harnesses are used in the Martian climate due to...the climate). In your case I would just drop in CT Combat Armor for those of a certain Social Standing (A+), and just impose additional cultural reasons for why firearms of any sort aren't present or are forbidden (much like atomics are officially outlawed in Dune). You might even have Soc 9- limited to TL 2-, and only Soc A+ to higher TL's.

 

[sekalo]

Thanks for clarifying: these causes seem more cultural than technological, and the effect is not like John Carter (skimpy battle harnesses are used in the Martian climate due to...the climate). In your case I would just drop in CT Combat Armor for those of a certain Social Standing (A+), and just impose additional cultural reasons for why firearms of any sort aren't present or are forbidden (much like atomics are officially outlawed in Dune). You might even have Soc 9- limited to TL 2-, and only Soc A+ to higher TL's.

I have the armor function as a stillsuit as well; however, that is just to allow for the reason of using armor in a desert world. Because 'battle harnesses' or light armor makes a lot more sense in a desert world.

 

[Condottiere]

Interesting question as to whether an object attempting to penetrate the Dune shield sort of fixes the shield wearer partially in place.

Or, as you hop around like a bunny rabbit, the object moves with you, partially.

 

[Ildefonse]

I have the armor function as a stillsuit as well; however, that is just to allow for the reason of using armor in a desert world. Because 'battle harnesses' or light armor makes a lot more sense in a desert world.

Have you also considered just setting the Law Level at 7? All firearms would be prohibited, but bladed weapons would be permitted. I think making Combat Armor impervious to all firearms/energy weapons is too powerful, but it is your setting.