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Sydites and Four Arms

Kilgs

SOC-14 1K
Baron
I'm adapting Gateway to Destiny for MGT and came across the Sydites. I generally hate 4-armed species as it doesn't grok in my brain and brings back nightmares of DOUBLE ATTACKS from Palladium.

So my original plan was just to make them 2-armed. However, I was wondering whether there had ever been a CT version of a four-armed alien and how it was handled? Any ideas?
 
Adapting for Personal Use, I trust...the incorporation of the Sydites still tastes foul in my mouth...akin to the Minor Race with a permanent stoop to look under rocks. Too many pulpish aliens and the Sydites are what caused me to distain T20.
 
I'm adapting Gateway to Destiny for MGT and came across the Sydites. I generally hate 4-armed species as it doesn't grok in my brain and brings back nightmares of DOUBLE ATTACKS from Palladium.

Extra attacks is just a plain daft idea.

The limitation isn't limbs, otherwise humans could have 4 pistols firing constantly
(one in each arm, one on a foot, one between teeth - while standing on one leg).

I can understand 4 arms for being able to carry things morebetter. When shifting fridges I would have loved the extra arms - but note that that is still one task, the extra arms would have just made it easier. That aspect (being able to carry things better) makes sense for a designed manual labour species - which I would play sydites up as (rather then the "Tru Warrior" aspect, which doesn't ring true to me).

For combat the ability to load and cock a rifle while maintaining a combat grip is useful. The ability to use two rifles simeltaneously doesn't make a lot of sense, otherwise in the real world every army would equip their troops with twin machine pistols - a configuration with very limited application.
 
I only vaguely recall the Sydite notes in T20 but isn't there something about one pair of arms being muscular and used for heavy lifting (and presumably melee weapons) and the other pair being smaller and dexterous and used for fine manipulation (and presumably ranged weapons) therefore eliminating your multiple attacks issue? I don't recall multiple attacks being allowed but that might be my memory slipping.

There'd still be the handy ability of carrying two weapons at the ready (a melee and a ranged) that would still be an advantage.
 
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Yeah, I hate 4-armed warrior races. Too cliche-munchkin. However, some of the text indicates that the Sydites had two sets one large and one small. Since the race writeup is in T20 and I don't plan on getting it, I was wondering what anyone else had...
 
T20 Sydites don't get extra actions for the extra arms. They get a bonus to dex and str, but have a strong pair (full str incl bonus, half dex) and an agile pair (full dex including bonus, half strength).

4 armed warrior gods they are not.
 
I let my friend play one in my MGT game. He gave himself a +1 on physical stats and a -1 on mental and social stats.

Mike
 
The upshot is that they are going to be slightly better at tasks that cater to four arms, but no better at things that don't.

Since MGT is considerably less detailed in the "overt mechanics" department, and the OTU already has a four-armed race in the Virushi (who do date back to CT, by the way), the handling (ha ha) of the Sydites is mostly Referee-driven.

For doing work while on a ladder, the Sydites know no equal.

Teach a Sydite how to do joint locks and other personal restraint tricks and his weaker arms become useful in a fight, but mostly as a way to constrain an opponent while the stronger arms beat him to a pulp. Similar advantages apply in psychiatric work: pin the patient with one set of arms, use the delicate set for whatever injection or other procedure is required. Only need one Sydite to get a struggler into a straight-jacket...

Along those same lines, a Special Forces Sydite (rare, since they aren't terribly bright, IIRC) is a neck-breaking terror. Imagine how much easier the "twist-off" attack is if you don't have to come up with the leverage from speed and stealth since you have an extra set of hands to work with...

In a less warlike application, leverage for heavy tools becomes easier, since you can brace AND pull.

Some applications seem to be precluded, however. Multi-tasking must be designed to be strongly rote for one task, as the extra set of arms does not come with the brain to fully multi-task or the extra eyes to watch what both sets of arms might be doing. The placement of the arms also precludes strong multi-tasking since the two pairs must operate in the same area around the body and will tend to get in the way if the tasks need much motion.

I suspect you could, with some intense training, get a Sydite to both fire a machine-gun and handle the feed of the ammo belt at the same time, but only if the belts don't take a complex bit of manipulation to connect. Get him a crewmate to help with that, though, and the extra set of arms might help stabilize the gun itself. Given an extra pair of grips to allow this, it should certainly be within the limitations of multi-tasking. Firing a second weapon would not, on the other hand.
 
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I'm adapting Gateway to Destiny for MGT and came across the Sydites. I generally hate 4-armed species as it doesn't grok in my brain and brings back nightmares of DOUBLE ATTACKS from Palladium.

So my original plan was just to make them 2-armed. However, I was wondering whether there had ever been a CT version of a four-armed alien and how it was handled? Any ideas?

Awe c'mon Palladiumb's Rahu-men only get 2 extra attacks, not 4 ;)

>
 
Since MGT is considerably less detailed in the "overt mechanics" department, and the OTU already has a four-armed race in the Virushi (who do date back to CT, by the way), the handling (ha ha) of the Sydites is mostly Referee-driven.


Gypsy,

The Virushi do have four arms. They also have four legs, making them octopeds.

I either forgot or was unaware of the strong pair/delicate pair differentiation in Sydite anatomy. The few illos of them I've seen don't show much difference between the pairings however.

IMHO, the pairings lessen my already low opinion of the Sydites. Where once I only believed they were still yet another Human Minor Race of honorable savage warriors complete with the usual negative INT and SOC modifiers, I now know they're little more than still yet another Human Minor Race of honorable savage warriors complete with the usual negative INT and SOC modifiers masquerading as Moties. (Yes, yes. I know the Moties had only one strong arm. My comparison still stands.)

The faults with the Sydites design does not lie with T20's authors however. The fault lies with RPG referees and players instead. You see, in any RPG every sentient species - no matter how outre the species may be- every sentient species must be available for play. That is, players demand a chargen for every Tom, Drow, or Lich. The question of whether such a species should ever be used as a PC or whether such a species can ever be used as a PC does not matter. RPG players want to be able to be a Virushi, a Sydite, a Hiver, or anything else if they so choose.

The need to make any sentient species "player ready" ties the writer's hands. The Sydites should have a neural architecture greatly different from any other human subspecies, if only to control four arms at once, and such differences should result in very different behavior. Sadly, because the Sydites had to be "player ready", the writers could not fully explore that possibility.

Instead of being a very different human variety - both mentally and physically - from all the other human varieties, the Sydites simply become "Bob the Four-Armed Guy from Accounting". When you factor in their negative INT and SOC modifiers it get even sadder. Now they're "Just Another Orc/Klingon from Accounting" too.

The same fate occurred with T20's Ursa. When you consider how pre-sentient bears procreate, T20's uplifted bears should have had markedly different families and societies than the human "norm". Instead, because the Ursa must be "player ready", the Ursa are nothing more than "Bob the Bear from Accounting".


Regards,
Bill
 
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suffer not the mutant to live.

And thus the fate of the race was that such a being, that matched all of their ideas of racial purity, not only did not exist, but could not exist. And thus the machines to purge the unclean never stopped, and still purge to this day.

The book Of Babylon, Season 1, Episode 5. "Infection"
 
Now now, Bill. *I* didn't create the Sydites or the Ursa, nor did I write those sections of T20.

I tend to agree otherwise.

The Ursa are unique to T20, while the Sydites go further back but with no real details. Perhaps some further development is needed on both?
 
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Awe c'mon Palladiumb's Rahu-men only get 2 extra attacks, not 4 ;)

>

It burns... oh, it burns.

----------------------------
As for the discussion of "player-ready" races, I tend to agree. T20 was a bit too star wars with the allowance of races that were nowhere near Imperial space for my taste. In fact, I had no intention of allowing Sydites as a race until I figured out that there was a bunch in the Imperium. Several references make note of it. So I figured I'd better look into them. That was why I changed them to having two arms so they became less of "wacky alien" and more of a minor humaniti variant.

The Sydite stats that I came up with were: +2 End, -2 SOC.

I think the Social penalty is justified in 992IY since the Sydite war is only 200 years ago and they are a minor race. The endurance bonus was just because they are described as being large (although I dropped their height to averaging 7ft).

The only other races allowed are: Jonkereen, Luriani, Sol, Vil, Vargr, Droyne and In-Vitro.

And I'm having problems with the In-Vitros. Stupid Genetic Manipulation Act.
 
Now now, Bill. *I* didn't create the Sydites or the Ursa, nor did I write those sections of T20.


Gypsy,

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were responsible in any manner for either of them. I was using your post as an opportunity to (once again) raise the subject of aliens in RPGs.

As for further development, the need for the Ursa and Sydites to be "player ready" sadly obviates that. To do both races justice, the Ursa should have markedly different family and other social structures and the Sydites should think very differently than all other human races.

You might be able to swing the necessary changes with the Ursa while keeping them somewhat playable. However, you wouldn't be able to model Sydite thought processes at all.

Both races are very good ideas very greatly handicapped by the demands that they be "player ready" within a RPG. :(


Regards,
Bill
 
Eh. No big deal, really.

MongT is a bit more abstract in combat than D20. Aside from implicit "hands free" benefits and any stat mods you care the throw in, I'd give a small bonus in melee combat due to having more angles they can attack from.
 
Eh. No big deal, really.

MongT is a bit more abstract in combat than D20. Aside from implicit "hands free" benefits and any stat mods you care the throw in, I'd give a small bonus in melee combat due to having more angles they can attack from.

I decided not too since I thought extra actions in combat might be 'over powering'

Where were the sydites detailed before? I thought T20 was their first appearance.

Mike
 
Extra attacks is just a plain daft idea.

The limitation isn't limbs, otherwise humans could have 4 pistols firing constantly
(one in each arm, one on a foot, one between teeth - while standing on one leg).

...SNIP...
Didn't Rose McGowan do this in that Planet Terror movie?
 
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