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Malenfant
Guest
Who said aliens should be playable? 
They weren't in 2300AD, and I think it would have ruined them if they were.
They weren't in 2300AD, and I think it would have ruined them if they were.
T5 Aliens: Wolves in VaccSuits or... not?
- Thread starter Rhialto the Marvelous
- Start date
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Roger Calver
Guest
Im with Mal here, aliens well those in 2300AD were best suited for NPC's as the mystery was maintained OK and that they were of no use to PC's (maybe pents but still so different a mindset to be of no use).
P
Pickles
Guest
I've never had a satisfactory game where PCs were non-human (SF or Fantasy). I've always vetoed any requests from my players to play dragonewt characters in Glorantha, for example. It's just too difficult for most players to get into an alien mindset, consistently and repeatedly for months of real-time play. For the referee it's much easier - he's only playing NPCs in 'snaphots'.
Erm, in my rambling way, what I'm trying to say is that aliens gennerally work better as NPCs. In all games I've ever participated in, that is.
Erm, in my rambling way, what I'm trying to say is that aliens gennerally work better as NPCs. In all games I've ever participated in, that is.
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Roger Calver
Guest
Aliens or non-human races work best when not available to PC's, having them on for the GM keeps the secrets and mystery to be discovered and add layers of gaming, even with near-humans this can be true.
Rhialto the Marvelous
SOC-13
That's exactly right. To me, once you introduce that archetypical bar full of chattering aliens from all corners of the universe--and that's a consequence of aliens as PCs, namely their commonality--then you have crossed the line from Traveller to Star Wars or Star Trek.
I like SW/ST, but Traveller feels to me more like what 2300AD apparently is.
I like SW/ST, but Traveller feels to me more like what 2300AD apparently is.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
I started into Traveller very early, and saw the spot artwork pieces in JTAS that depicted busy and VERY cosmopolitan port concourses, often with no two depicted sentients being the same species. As the setting developed further, and we found out that the First Imperium practiced cultural imperialism in addition to commercial, the idea that some of the species seen had been "Vilanized" for millenia made some sense. As such, some "rubber suit" aliens made a certain amount of sense.
I find that, because Vargr are relatively easy to play, they end up being played with more individual personality than a lot of other aliens. Essentially, most of the others end up all being more or less the same: "Aslan are like this".
That doesn't happen as much with Vargr. Sure, there are people from the "Vargr are idiots" school, but it is relatively easy to grasp that all Vargr are individuals. And it's through that individuality that you get to make them *really* alien.
EDIT: They are also pretty much the only alien race I would actually play.
That doesn't happen as much with Vargr. Sure, there are people from the "Vargr are idiots" school, but it is relatively easy to grasp that all Vargr are individuals. And it's through that individuality that you get to make them *really* alien.
EDIT: They are also pretty much the only alien race I would actually play.
The biggest complaint now still seems to be that the aliens from the CT universe are not alien enough to make some people happy. That sounds more about how you (or your players) run them. The argument that a person does not like the idea of player character aliens is more of "play style" thing, not a rule concern.
Even if you are not going to let players run alien characters, you will still need rules on how to generate them for use as NPCs. Once you have those rules the possibility to use them as player characters exists. So, even if they are not intended to be used as player characters, they are going to end up being used that way.
Also, it is easier to ignore rules, or facets of the rules, that you don't like than to come up with ones that are not there. Most of the modern gamers I know really enjoy non-human races being available as player characters. If there are no rules for them, their game master has to work out rules for them anyway.
Perhaps it boils down to generic rules vs. world setting. If the rules keep the format of mltiple books, one of them could be the "Empire" setting. That might keep both the generic rules fans and the classic setting fans happy.
Even if you are not going to let players run alien characters, you will still need rules on how to generate them for use as NPCs. Once you have those rules the possibility to use them as player characters exists. So, even if they are not intended to be used as player characters, they are going to end up being used that way.
Also, it is easier to ignore rules, or facets of the rules, that you don't like than to come up with ones that are not there. Most of the modern gamers I know really enjoy non-human races being available as player characters. If there are no rules for them, their game master has to work out rules for them anyway.
Perhaps it boils down to generic rules vs. world setting. If the rules keep the format of mltiple books, one of them could be the "Empire" setting. That might keep both the generic rules fans and the classic setting fans happy.
GypsyComet
SOC-14 1K
Some of the players that want "real" aliens are just looking for superpowers, while others are looking for an excuse to blow things up for no apparent reason ("I'm a Hurkglk. You wouldn't understand my motivations."). Those looking for an acting challenge are rarer than we think. I know one person who did a bang up job of playing Zhodani and Vargr in two games, and I've known another good Vargr player. At the same time, I knew a guy who would comb the aliens (in d6 Star Wars) looking for something that broke the usual PC capability molds so he could be "better" than the rest of the table. (West End was smarter than that, however, so his searches were in vain.)
Uplifted dogs I can handle. Makes a sort of sense. There's a story just finished in 2000AD that features uplifted dog warriors defending the last of humanity (if they are actually still in existence) in Antarctica from what seems to be uplifted insects. Thought it would be corny at first, but it turned out ok.
My impression of Vargr was actually formed in the pilot of Andromeda. The Nightsiders are so obviously Vargr inspired, but I didn't know Traveller then. An actor with elongated snout/nose, and lots of hair, dressed as a New Romantic. Sounds about right.
The biggest problem with Vargr has been the artwork. It really is just dog heads stuck on human bodies. That is soooo wack. Apart from the fact that it just looks damn silly, how do Vargr talk? Their jaws are too big. Vargr should resemble dogs just as much as humans resemble chimpanzees. In 99% of Traveller artwork, Vargr are just plain old dogs on their hind legs wearing trousers. Blame the artists.
As for Aslan, I ignore the lion comparison. I treat it a lazy classification by the intial human contacteers. I was into Star Frontiers in my youth, so I look to Yazirians for inspiration. Ok, lion-monkeys, but with more going on. In MTU Aslan have no relationship to big cats whatsoever.
Hivers are starfish? Maybe that was the initial inspiration, but they certainly don't resemble any starfish I've met. Only similarity is 5 or 6 pseudolimbs. And they're are cool. More like Niven's Puppeteers than starfish.
Have there been any decent aliens in rpgs? (Sorry, don't know 2300, don't want to know, don't like the basic premise).
Dralasites, another Star Frontiers type, were pretty good. Though somewhat like dwarves, perhaps - tough, slow, like jokes.
There was a Spacemaster 2ed alien that didn't have any eyes, just sensors on the foreheads. Can't remember what they're called.
Aliens in literature don't fair much better. Vernor Vinge's honky tonk spiders were always a bit silly, in my book. Even Iain M Bank's aliens are often just a good excuse for fart jokes, though I thought the Voehn warrior race (vacuum capable) and those tumbleweed-form intelligence agents were pretty cool in the Algebraist.
Niven/Pournelle's semi-sentient Grendel's are pretty good too.
It's a thin field, though.
My impression of Vargr was actually formed in the pilot of Andromeda. The Nightsiders are so obviously Vargr inspired, but I didn't know Traveller then. An actor with elongated snout/nose, and lots of hair, dressed as a New Romantic. Sounds about right.
The biggest problem with Vargr has been the artwork. It really is just dog heads stuck on human bodies. That is soooo wack. Apart from the fact that it just looks damn silly, how do Vargr talk? Their jaws are too big. Vargr should resemble dogs just as much as humans resemble chimpanzees. In 99% of Traveller artwork, Vargr are just plain old dogs on their hind legs wearing trousers. Blame the artists.
As for Aslan, I ignore the lion comparison. I treat it a lazy classification by the intial human contacteers. I was into Star Frontiers in my youth, so I look to Yazirians for inspiration. Ok, lion-monkeys, but with more going on. In MTU Aslan have no relationship to big cats whatsoever.
Hivers are starfish? Maybe that was the initial inspiration, but they certainly don't resemble any starfish I've met. Only similarity is 5 or 6 pseudolimbs. And they're are cool. More like Niven's Puppeteers than starfish.
Have there been any decent aliens in rpgs? (Sorry, don't know 2300, don't want to know, don't like the basic premise).
Dralasites, another Star Frontiers type, were pretty good. Though somewhat like dwarves, perhaps - tough, slow, like jokes.
There was a Spacemaster 2ed alien that didn't have any eyes, just sensors on the foreheads. Can't remember what they're called.
Aliens in literature don't fair much better. Vernor Vinge's honky tonk spiders were always a bit silly, in my book. Even Iain M Bank's aliens are often just a good excuse for fart jokes, though I thought the Voehn warrior race (vacuum capable) and those tumbleweed-form intelligence agents were pretty cool in the Algebraist.
Niven/Pournelle's semi-sentient Grendel's are pretty good too.
It's a thin field, though.