Terran Trade Authority is to be resurrected
- Thread starter mike wightman
- Start date
Hi all,
I'm the guy behind the updated TTA images, so I thought I'd introduce myself. The new book will contain all CGI pics, as the rights to the originals reverted back to the original artists some years ago, and tracking all of them down and re-obtaining the rights would have been A) unfeasible and B) damn expensive! Doing them all from scratch was the only option, as it also avoids all copyright issues. I'm glad 'most' of you like them, and yes, the Gourmet was a nightmare to do - any idea of how many layers the Photoshop file has?! I've tried to keep the look and feel of the originals as far as possible - it would have been easy just to make the model and stick it on a starfield background, but that would have lost much of the attraction of the originals. Peter Elson - sadly missed. He actually painted in gouache, and would use ball-point pens to add details and panel lines! He had a fearless use of colour too.
BTW - I know nothing of RPG/d20/Omni type stuff...
I'm the guy behind the updated TTA images, so I thought I'd introduce myself. The new book will contain all CGI pics, as the rights to the originals reverted back to the original artists some years ago, and tracking all of them down and re-obtaining the rights would have been A) unfeasible and B) damn expensive! Doing them all from scratch was the only option, as it also avoids all copyright issues. I'm glad 'most' of you like them, and yes, the Gourmet was a nightmare to do - any idea of how many layers the Photoshop file has?! I've tried to keep the look and feel of the originals as far as possible - it would have been easy just to make the model and stick it on a starfield background, but that would have lost much of the attraction of the originals. Peter Elson - sadly missed. He actually painted in gouache, and would use ball-point pens to add details and panel lines! He had a fearless use of colour too.
BTW - I know nothing of RPG/d20/Omni type stuff...
MorriganPress
SOC-1
Just to answer the legality question ealrier in this thread as it pertains to copyright issues... please take note that Morrigan Press Inc. has legally obtained a license to the original books from the intellectual copyright holder and original publisher of the TTA books. We are not infringing upon anyone's copyright and, in fact, will be paying royalties as part of our license.
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
Morrigan Press Inc.
Cheers,
Scott Agnew
Morrigan Press Inc.
T
TempMal
Guest
Does it really avoid the copyright issues if you basically replicate the original picture in 3D? I'd have thought you'd be able to justify that more if you just made the same spaceship models and then put them in a different scene (like you've done for the Sharks, or the Manta). But some of them are so close to the originals (like the Fatboy, Cutlass and Cyclops) that the line is somewhat more blurry.
What software are you using for the 3D rendering, BTW?
Yep - copyright isn't an issue. There was an issue a few years ago when an artist called Glen Brown did a copies of work by Tony Roberts and Chris Foss - the Tony Roberts copy was entered for the Turmer prize. As they were recognised as new and original works, there was no infringement of copyright.
Good grief... imagine if all the Star Trek and Star Wars modellers were breaching copyright by using the ship designs... so there's no copyright issue.
I use Strata Studio Pro in the most part. The renderer is the best I've come across - the Raydiosity rendering especially. Some modelling is done with C4D, and obviously Bryce for the backgrounds. Then the images are put together in Photoshop, with a healthy smattering of various filters - Knoll Light Factory and Flaming Pear Glare to name two. The full size 8.5 x 11 inch pics at 400dpi, with up to 30 layers get to over 500mb...
Good grief... imagine if all the Star Trek and Star Wars modellers were breaching copyright by using the ship designs... so there's no copyright issue.
I use Strata Studio Pro in the most part. The renderer is the best I've come across - the Raydiosity rendering especially. Some modelling is done with C4D, and obviously Bryce for the backgrounds. Then the images are put together in Photoshop, with a healthy smattering of various filters - Knoll Light Factory and Flaming Pear Glare to name two. The full size 8.5 x 11 inch pics at 400dpi, with up to 30 layers get to over 500mb...
Andrew Boulton
The Adminator
"with up to 30 layers get to over 500mb..."
Ouch!
The end result is worth the effort, though. Some of those pics are stunning.
Ouch!
The end result is worth the effort, though. Some of those pics are stunning.
Scarecrow
SOC-14 1K
Your modelling is fine and your textures are pretty good for the main part, it's the lighting that lets you down more than anything. Most of the ships I've looked at appear lit from the viewpoint, killing any shadows and consequently any depth the picture might have. The surface properties are shiny and plasticky too making the ships look like toys. It's a shame you used Bryce for the backgrounds too. I always think Bryce backgrounds look cheap and nasty. You'd have been better off trying to replicate the originals in Photoshop.
Crow
Crow
Scarecrow
SOC-14 1K
I've had a good look at all the images now and I have to say that some of them are actually very good. I can almost recognise the art style in some of them. The Jim Burns one was instantly recogniseable as him. I still think it's a mixed bag quality wise, though I'm afraid. The ones I looked at initially (and was referring to in my previous post) are the Terran Hornet, the Terran Partisan, Terran Gunship and Terran Cutlass.
Whilst we're on the subject, I seem to recall something similar to the TTA called 'DeFates' or something.
Crow
Whilst we're on the subject, I seem to recall something similar to the TTA called 'DeFates' or something.
Crow
Interesting comments regarding the pics. I would point out that the point was to try to recreate the look and feel of the originals, and not try to move them into the flat, grey neo-brutalist universe that most current SF imagery inhabits. Cast your mind back to the mid to late 70's, where Foss and his imitators had just arrived, and suddenly book covers were all 'spaceship and planet' types. Bold stripes, big colours, outlandish designs, brightly lit... Also, the images on the site aren't the images that will appear in the book - most have been considerable updated. Bryce appears in maybe 4 of the pics... replicate them in Photoshop? Now there's a scary thought! Probably easier to paint the backgrounds and then scan them in. Anyway, we can get into technicalities of texturing and rendering and reflectivity recursion, but I think that would be best away from this forum. It gets boringly technical very quickly. Judge them against the originals - that's what people remember.
Sorry - you'd posted again before I saw it... yep, agree with the Hornet, Partisan, Cutlass and Gunship pics. They were amongst the first ones I did, and they are also the ones that have received the biggest updates, which haven't appeared on the site. Also the Alphan Minnow is now also completely different (good thing too - the one on the site is pretty basic). I really must update them from the new renderings!
Scarecrow
SOC-14 1K
Fair does! You've won me over! I admit that the translation from 70's sci-fi art to 3D graphics is something I rarely - if ever - see and it's a refreshingly different visual style for 3D. That alone is worth a handful of brownie points.
My problem was not so much that the images didn't depict 'grey neo-brutalist' spaceships. I realise they were meant to be in the vein of Chris Foss and his ilk, I was more concerned that the 3D work in general seemed to be inept. I now, however see that these were earlier pieces and I can see for myself that the later work is much better.
It's not my cup of tea, but you've done an impressive (not to mention prolific) job with it.
Nice one,
Crow
My problem was not so much that the images didn't depict 'grey neo-brutalist' spaceships. I realise they were meant to be in the vein of Chris Foss and his ilk, I was more concerned that the 3D work in general seemed to be inept. I now, however see that these were earlier pieces and I can see for myself that the later work is much better.
It's not my cup of tea, but you've done an impressive (not to mention prolific) job with it.
Nice one,
Crow
T
TempMal
Guest
The Tarantula pic on the site seems a bit basic as well, the ship textures seem unfinished.
I miss the Whale blowing up in the Stingray image though, and that long green ship from the original Manta pic. And while I like what you did with the Sentinels, it doesn't compare to the original pic at all - I half fancied I could hear the thunder as the Sentinels were launching in that
. But they're still nifty 
.
I seem to recall there was a big hoo-haa when it was revealed that the guy who went in for that Turner Prize had basically copied someone else's artwork. I thought that was more about the fact that it was a blatant copyright violation than about the fact that plagiarised art had been entered for the Turner Prize (then again, most of the stuff that's entered for the Turner Prize is a pile of crap. In fact, I'm sure someone has probably submitted a literal pile of crap for it... )
I miss the Whale blowing up in the Stingray image though, and that long green ship from the original Manta pic. And while I like what you did with the Sentinels, it doesn't compare to the original pic at all - I half fancied I could hear the thunder as the Sentinels were launching in that
. I seem to recall there was a big hoo-haa when it was revealed that the guy who went in for that Turner Prize had basically copied someone else's artwork. I thought that was more about the fact that it was a blatant copyright violation than about the fact that plagiarised art had been entered for the Turner Prize (then again, most of the stuff that's entered for the Turner Prize is a pile of crap. In fact, I'm sure someone has probably submitted a literal pile of crap for it...
)
Scarecrow
SOC-14 1K
I seem to recall a fella one year dumped a pile of horse manure on the steps of the Tate in protest at the Turner prize.Originally posted by TempMal:
(then again, most of the stuff that's entered for the Turner Prize is a pile of crap. In fact, I'm sure someone has probably submitted a literal pile of crap for it...
Crow
Jeff M. Hopper
SOC-14 1K
I apologize if my copyright question seemed like an accusation, it wasn't intended to be. I'm trying to learn about how copyright law applies to publishing in all its forms and your books provided an interesting question. Legally are these images considered copies or derivative works since the images are in a radically different medium? I mean, how much difference must exist between an original and an image based on the original before it is considered an unassociated work (assuming that no legal agreement exists)?
No need for apology - completely understandable. The Glen Brown/Tony Roberts episode and the Turner prize business established that - the new works could said to be, say, "After Tony Roberts" or "After Chris Foss", but it's not a legal requirement, as the new works are established as new and original. The new works are not trying to be 'passed off' as the originals. Even if I were to do a duplicate painting, accurate in almost every detail, so long as a difference was evident and the new work wasn't passed off as being the original, no problem. Of course, it's good practice to cite the original source as I do on my site, but it's not a requirement. Imagine how much trouble there'd be if Lucasfilm or Paramount tried to impose copyright restrictions on everyone who built a 3d model of a Star Wars or Star trek film and did a rendering of it. I can't recall a case where anyone who's done that has been served with a 'cease and desist' order or been taken to court.
Regarding the updates of the pics: for the book, the Manta will have the nasty looking green ship restored, the Stingrays will be attacking the Whale, but I'm not convinced with the Sentinel lift-off image. They were described as a space-based defence system, and it would make sense to build them in space, where they would be stationed, rather than launch them from the ground. Anyway, what in the name of $@*&&! is a Model T Ford doing there? Anyway, for the sake of argument, I'm re-rendering the scene as depicted in the book (sans incongruous vehicle), and then we can choose which one seems more appropriate. If time allows, I'll have another stab at the Tarantula - might even do one of the later model without the exterior plating, just for laughs.
Right on Scarecrow, some of the earlier stuff is a bit basic... hopefully that will be put right to everyone's satisfaction. I must say that some of the models have been dificult to build so they look like the pictures, as they obviously didn't have the benefit of building models of them, so the perspective and construction of some of them just doesn't work in the 'real world'!
Aah, the wonderful Turner Prize, which this year was won by a man who built a shed. What can I say? There's hope for us all.
Regarding the updates of the pics: for the book, the Manta will have the nasty looking green ship restored, the Stingrays will be attacking the Whale, but I'm not convinced with the Sentinel lift-off image. They were described as a space-based defence system, and it would make sense to build them in space, where they would be stationed, rather than launch them from the ground. Anyway, what in the name of $@*&&! is a Model T Ford doing there? Anyway, for the sake of argument, I'm re-rendering the scene as depicted in the book (sans incongruous vehicle), and then we can choose which one seems more appropriate. If time allows, I'll have another stab at the Tarantula - might even do one of the later model without the exterior plating, just for laughs.
Right on Scarecrow, some of the earlier stuff is a bit basic... hopefully that will be put right to everyone's satisfaction. I must say that some of the models have been dificult to build so they look like the pictures, as they obviously didn't have the benefit of building models of them, so the perspective and construction of some of them just doesn't work in the 'real world'!
Aah, the wonderful Turner Prize, which this year was won by a man who built a shed. What can I say? There's hope for us all.