Test Book 2 cannon ship designs

[Matt123]

Looking to crowd source finding calculation problems that have me a bit beat. Here is a Book 2 design for the Subsidised Merchant. The first half is the design, the second my notes on what the differences are. I am particularly interested in figuring out why my designer does not match the CT Errata cost.

The cost difference for the Subsidized Merchant is ~0.336 MCr. Can you spot why?

Subsidised Merchant (type R)
400 ton, TL 9 Civilian Design, 97.19 MCr
5 crew (Command: 1+1, Engineer: 0+1, Steward: 0+1, Medic: 0+1)
8 High/Mid passengers , 9 Low passengers

___Ton.____MCr.____EP.___
| ___.__ | 20.00 | _.__ | standard hull, streamlined , fuel scoops
| _20.00 | _2.00 | _.__ | bridge
| __1.00 | _2.00 | _.__ | computer model 1
| _20.00 | 30.00 | _.__ | drive jump C #1
| __5.00 | 12.00 | _.__ | drive maneouver C #1
| _10.00 | 24.00 | _.__ | power plant C #1
| ___.__ | __.__ | 4.00 | agility #1
| _15.00 | __.__ | _.__ | reserved drive space
| _10.00 | __.__ | _.__ | fuel, PP endurance 4 weeks (4 weeks powered down)
| _40.00 | __.__ | _.__ | fuel, jump range 1 parsecs
| __2.00 | _0.20 | _.__ | hard points (2 unused) with no turrets x2
| _52.00 | _6.50 | _.__ | staterooms x13
| __4.50 | _0.45 | _.__ | low berths x9
| 200.00 | __.__ | _.__ | 200 tons cargo capacity
| _20.00 | _0.04 | _.__ | 20 ton Launch x1
‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒
| 399.50 | 97.19 | 4.00 EP used, PP generates 4.00 EPs

98.16 MCr for first ship in class, built in 64 weeks
77.75 MCr when built in volume, built in 52 weeks
CT Ship Designer by Matt. Visit https://tca-2014-12.herokuapp.com

Notes
Type R Subsidised Merchant
Book 2 (1977, p19), Traders & Gunboats (1980, p19), The Traveller Book (1982, p64)
NB: Not CT Errata v1.1 compliant, cost discrepancy to be resolved.

Differences:
- Waste space: The standard hull has 15 tons reserved for drive upgrades. The hull has half a ton unused space.
- Cost:
97.19 MCr full cost
87.471 MCr (10% discount), 77.75 MCr (20% discount, TCS).
- Cost (Book 2, The Traveller Book):
101.03 MCr, includes cost of Launch
-14.00 MCr, cost of Launch [1]
87.03 MCr (~10% discount from CT Ship Designer cost).
- Cost (Traders & Gunboats, CT Errata v1.1)
101.035 MCr, includes cost of Launch
-14.00 MCr, cost of Launch [1]
87.035 MCr (~10% discount from CT Ship Designer cost).
- Build time:
64 weeks for first ship
56 weeks (in volume, Book 2), 52 weeks (in volume, TCS).

[1] 14 MCr Launch cost per Book 2 (p18), The Traveller Book (p62) and Traders & Gunboats (p39). Note the cost for the 20 ton Launch reduces significantly using High Guard's small craft design sequence. Fighting Ships (p27) lists the better equipped 5g Gig as 7.8982 MCr.

 

[BillDowns]

Matt,

On costs, you have the Hull price at 20 MCr but it should be 17.6 MCr.

Launch you have as 0.04 MCr but should be 14 MCr.

You really should compare against LBB2 1st ed since this design is at least that old. I would have to dig out my dead tree printing to compare. May not make a difference, bu then again, it may.

 

[BillDowns]

Additional note: If one redesigns with a custom hull, recovering that unused engineering space, you gain 15 tons cargo space and that cost can be paid off in a bit over 3 years. If 3 staterooms are added instead, leaving 3 more tons of cargo space, you can pay it off even faster.

Theoretically, of course.

 

[Matt123]

Hi Bill,

Ta for your comments, I have made some changes as you have identified elements that could be better expressed, but not calculation problems. I'll briefly address each issue. A new design table is below.

On costs, you have the Hull price at 20 MCr but it should be 17.6 MCr.

Minimum cost for a Book 2 hull is 20 MCr. I have made a note to this effect in the output. There are a couple of other items subject to minimums as well, for example purification plants which I will treat the same way as I come across them.

Launch you have as 0.04 MCr but should be 14 MCr.

I have removed the cost of small craft from the designs and cost only for the hanger. The reason is that the Launch costs 14 MCr in Book 2 and less than half that in HG. Other small craft have different prices in different books. By separating them out it is easier to address the cost of the parent ship.

You really should compare against LBB2 1st ed since this design is at least that old. I would have to dig out my dead tree printing to compare. May not make a difference, bu then again, it may.

I would be interested in seeing whether 1st edition explains the difference, which would solve the mystery. But CT errata, AFAIK is correcting designs to comply with 2nd edition rules.

Additional note: If one redesigns with a custom hull...

lol, I will trust you on that one. Its a wee bit outside my self imposed brief though!

Again, thanks for your comments. I have made adjustments as a consequence and attach a new design output. The calculations are the same but I'm hoping the text incorporates sufficient information to address the concerns you raised.

Still looking to explain that difference of 0.336 MCr, anyone else enjoy attempting to solve puzzles!

Cheers!

Subsidised Merchant (type R)
400 ton, TL 9 Civilian Design, 97.19 MCr
5 crew (Command: 1+1, Engineer: 0+1, Steward: 0+1, Medic: 0+1)
8 High/Mid passengers, 9 Low passengers

___Ton.____MCr.____EP.___
| ___.__ | 20.00 | _.__ | standard hull (min 20 MCr), streamlined, fuel scoops
| _20.00 | _2.00 | _.__ | bridge
| __1.00 | _2.00 | _.__ | computer model 1
| _20.00 | 30.00 | _.__ | drive jump C #1
| __5.00 | 12.00 | _.__ | drive maneouver C #1
| _10.00 | 24.00 | _.__ | power plant C #1
| ___.__ | __.__ | 4.00 | agility #1
| _15.00 | __.__ | _.__ | reserved drive space
| _10.00 | __.__ | _.__ | fuel, PP endurance 4 weeks (4 weeks powered down)
| _40.00 | __.__ | _.__ | fuel, jump range 1 parsecs
| __2.00 | _0.20 | _.__ | hard points x2 with no turrets
| _52.00 | _6.50 | _.__ | staterooms x13
| __4.50 | _0.45 | _.__ | low berths x9
| 200.00 | __.__ | _.__ | 200 tons cargo capacity
| _20.00 | _0.04 | _.__ | hanger space for 20 ton Launch
‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒‒
| 399.50 | 97.19 | 4.00 EP used, PP generates 4.00 EPs

98.16 MCr (first ship, includes architect fees) built in 64 weeks
87.47 MCr (10% discount in volume, Book 2) built in 58 weeks
77.75 MCr (20% discount in volume, TCS) built in 52 weeks
CT Ship Designer by Matt. Visit https://tca-2014-12.herokuapp.com

 

[BillDowns]

Minimum cost for a Book 2 hull is 20 MCr.

Where is that stated?

I have removed the cost of small craft from the designs and cost only for the hanger.

The price you are comparing against includes the smallcraft.

The reason is that the Launch costs 14 MCr in Book 2 and less than half that in HG.

f you are building an LBB2 Ship Construction program, then use LBB2 prices, IMO.

I would be interested in seeing whether 1st edition explains the difference, which would solve the mystery.

I checked - there is no difference there. There is a slight difference in price for the Type R, though, but not very much.

Excluding smallcraft, the Type R price is 87.03 MCr. And under LBB2 rules, there would not be

• hangar price
• architect's fees; long since amortized off

And then, since this is a standard type, there is an unspecified volume discount.

 

[BillDowns]

Matt,

Send your email address in a PM, and I will send you a hand-built spreadsheet of the design. I couldn't get it to look reasonable in a post.

My calculated cost = 100.04 MCr
1982 price = 101.03 MCr
1977 price = 100.04 MCr

 

[Matt123]

I got blinkered on the minimum cost. When I checked the Scout, the calculation is correct at 3 MCr but as a result of my change after your earlier COTI post it now has a note regarding a 20 MCr minimum... I'll fix that tonight, which will also remove it from the Subsidised Merchant (bug 1). I will also look at separating the streamlining into its own entry.

The lack of hanger costs in your spreadsheet got me re-reading Bk 2 and it looks like I have carried over hanger costs from HG (2). This is the kind of bug I'm looking for, finding inherent assumptions.

The other interesting thing that came out of this was finding the text stating the 10% discount for standard designs (its stated twice). Don't know how I missed that, but I'll adjust my text output to reflect that rather than claiming its for a volume discount (3). Will also remove the architect costs for standard designs (4).

With hanger costs removed and the cost of the Launch removed, both your spreadsheet and my designer match. Of course neither matches CT Errata, but I think Don has been asking for a while for people to validate the CT Errata. This won't be sufficient, but hopefully is a step in that direction.

All up I think that is four bugs spotted here and two earlier (noting the 20 MCr minimum and that this design has hanger space only). That is a good haul, thanks Bill

I'll sort these out and then post another standard design for feedback in a few days.

Cheers!