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the adventure

matonet

SOC-4
I'm wondering if anyone knows whatever happened to the Java program "The Adventure" written by Jo Grant. It can be located at the CORE website - http://111george.com/core/home_en.htm.

I liked it because I could play Traveller 'solo' and do a bit of speculative trade, but the program is very buggy and freezes up after a while - usually casting me adrift in deep space.

I guess I'm asking whether anyone knows whether Jo is working on a better version or if someone with a bit of Java programming knowledge would know how to fix the program?
 
I've looked at the site, and it doesn't look like he ever made his code open-source or available. Otherwise, it might be an interesting experiment to tackle.

If you ever get the code base, I'd be interested in looking at it,
Flynn
 
Sure, if the source can be made available.

It might well be worth a look through. There ought to be some programming talent lurking around here.
 
Originally posted by Flynn:
I've looked at the site, and it doesn't look like he ever made his code open-source or available. Otherwise, it might be an interesting experiment to tackle.

If you ever get the code base, I'd be interested in looking at it,
Flynn
I've got a copy of the code (just downloaded from source - Save Target As...) and had a look at it in Borland Java Builder but cannot make heads nor tails of it (my programming is limited to BASIC BTW).

By saving the game webpage to my hard drive and downloading The Adventure from the source (Save Target As...) I can run it straight from my computer without having to wait for it to download every time. It is still *buggy* using this method though.

If you'd like a copy, send me your e-mail address and I'll send it.
 
Originally posted by matonet:
I've got a copy of the code (just downloaded from source - Save Target As...) and had a look at it in Borland Java Builder but cannot make heads nor tails of it (my programming is limited to BASIC BTW).

By saving the game webpage to my hard drive and downloading The Adventure from the source (Save Target As...) I can run it straight from my computer without having to wait for it to download every time. It is still *buggy* using this method though.

If you'd like a copy, send me your e-mail address and I'll send it.
Did you download the bytecode jar or do you have a copy of the source jar? If it's the one on the webpage that I saw, then it's probably just the bytecode jar file. JBuilder (and other IDEs) can decompile the bytecode, but I'm not entirely sure what you end up with. I'm pretty sure that you'd not have any comments at the least. The variable names and general structure should be there, but you'd also probably not have the indenting that makes something readable (not a problem with source formatting though).

Whether or not doing something like that and modifying the code without permission is acceptable/legal is a completely different matter. Better, I think, to get permission or the source released as open source.

Ron
 
All I found when looking around was the .jar file, which contains the compiled classes. Using my JBuilder IDE, all I really get when I look at that is the interface, no code. I suppose I could decompile it, but that always results in generally unreadable code.

I'll just have to wait, I guess, ;)
Flynn
 
I don't know. Maybe you're not using one of the better decompilers.


Of course, it depends a bit on how self-documenting the original code was. If it was, you can often recover an amazing amount.

I say this, having been part of a small team that wrote a java app, then wanted to secure it using obfuscators and who came to the conclusion the only good defense against decompilation was to use a Java to Native compiler. Even then, you aren't safe, but multiple-pass optimized native code is nastier to decompile cleanly than any jar file.

And yes, then there are the legalities... and the moralities...

It would be nice to get such things into open source though.
 
Hi !

Try to let it run in a JDK 1.1 environment...
Guess there are some compiler changes regarding the 64k method size.

regards,

Mert
 
Originally posted by Ron Vutpakdi:
Did you download the bytecode jar or do you have a copy of the source jar? If it's the one on the webpage that I saw, then it's probably just the bytecode jar file. JBuilder (and other IDEs) can decompile the bytecode, but I'm not entirely sure what you end up with. I'm pretty sure that you'd not have any comments at the least. The variable names and general structure should be there, but you'd also probably not have the indenting that makes something readable (not a problem with source formatting though).

Whether or not doing something like that and modifying the code without permission is acceptable/legal is a completely different matter. Better, I think, to get permission or the source released as open source.

Ron
Apologies for not getting back to the forum sonner, I was unsure how much interest this post would generate.
i. the code came up alright in Borland, it was decipherable, but I'm unfamiliar with the format of Java so naturally I'm a bit lost....
ii. regarding the code, again, I'm a luddite when it comes to creating my own libraries etc.
iii. regarding permission - I've tried to contact Jo, but with no luck (old e-mail address?). I agree with the concept of contacting the original author before you start playing around with something. However, if a program is *buggy* can you *debug* it and keep it for personal use (non distribution)? I think that is within the law. My problem is taht I'm so stoked about this little application that I'm hoping Jo Grant will stumble across this thread and help us out!
 
The code you got is from the decomiler. Technically, decompiling the code is illegal (See: DCMA copyright laws).

In addition, the decompiled code is more difficult to read and understand than the original source. So it won't be a good source to learn Java from.

Finally, if the only programming laguange you know is BASIC, Java is a huge step. Not only are the programming constructs different, but there is a whole different paradim to learn regaring program layout and flow.
 
Originally posted by jappel:
Serendipitously, Jo just posted a message on the TML. I'll PM you with the e-mail he posted from.

John
Thanks Jappel, I've e-mailed Jo and hopefully we'll get a reply.
 
Just received this e-mail from Jo Grant:
Hiya Matt,
Many apologies for not writing back to you from the other account. I see you saw my message on the TML. Well, it's all partially your fault! It goes like this:

I did get your e-mail and was rather excited that there was still interest in that old thing. But before doing something sensible, like write back, I wanted to have something to show. You see, I hate half-arsed and half-finished things almost as much as "under construction" signs. If you go public with that, you'll never get it finished. The code underlying that version of Adventure is from the "Traveller Tools Group" code which has, literally, been around since I was in college in 1987. It has gone through many revisions (and programming languages!) as technology and programming techniques have changed around it. It isn't actually private. It does have it's own website. It is public and contributions are welcome. I'm surprised your hunters didn't find it. (http://111george.com/jaymin/ttg/index.htm) I have tried, at various times, over the years to promote everyone working together on one toolset, but it's never happened. Most people write Traveller programs because they like writing Traveller programs, not because they actually want to do something helpful and productive to the Traveller community. So everyone insists on writing their own. I've given up fighting it.
Anyway, back to the story. As it turns out I had actually been moving the last incarnation of the tool to a more modern version. Both are in Java, but the first was ported before I really understood Java. So little kinks like when to make things public and private are being worked out. Also I've become rather fond of the MVC pattern in programming (although not design patterns in general) and I'm changing it to adopt that methodology. The translation for non-programmers is "I'm tinkering with it".
So when your request came in, I thought "I haven't done the adv modules yet, but how hard would it be?" So I set to work doing just that. The reason development stopped on the old Adventure (other then there being no users) was that as it grew beyond the original plan the structure became inadequate for what I was trying to do. The Quest architecture (the concept shameless stolen from The Elder Scrolls) was great, but complicated to use. Changing from static to designed ships was hard. And ship-to-ship combat really hard to retrofit. So as I started porting things, I started having to rewrite things. I got as far as writing a complete MegaTraveller ship design module before getting distracted onto other things (this happens a lot).
I puttered around for a while getting back to some programming for the www.solstation.com site. Got a computer version of The Company War game nearly finished. (that also happens a lot) Then I got hit with Colin wanting me to do a www.pocketempires.com site. Since I wrote part of the M0 stuff I dug through old data to get a certain amount of content, but the site needed something cool to attract it. Having just done The Company War game I already had the structure and design for doing a basic game. Since Traveller is 2D instead of 3D that made it easier.
So I managed to stick with that to the point where I knew I had something workable and could commit myself by posting publicly. It's now in "Alpha" state ("ship" state by T4 standards!) and to the point where people can start churning out scenarios for it.
But back to Adventure. Bless your hearts for paying attention to it. I had noticed the traffic on the web site but only scratched my head. I'm putting what I have now up on the web so you guys can play with the current version. It isn't so much buggy as underdeveloped. The code is in a much better state than what you guys have been looking at. I'm bundling it into the jar files now since download speeds aren't much of a crimp in this day and age.
I keep it up in a semi-public CVS repository. Eclipse is my development tool of choice. The code started over 15 years ago as a programming project in College. I still kind of use it as a test bed for programming principles. I'm a bigger boy now and what I'm playing with is a bit more complicated than when I was in college. I can't promise that entry-level programmers will make "heads or tails" of it. However the MVC method is a great way of modularizing things. Other projects I've done have successfully moved between programmers and they cited this as a great way to bring clarity to a code set. If you are a Java programmer and are interested, then you are more than happy to chip in. I'm sure there is something that can be found for you to do.
But not just there, I would desperately love a UI designer. Or even just a designer. Or a doc writer. If you guys bite on this, (or the PE game) I'll create a section on the wiki I use for my D&D game and we can start writing designs, specs, manuals, etc. I'm happy to follow through wherever there is interest.

Anyway, I really must go now. Sadly to a friend's father's funeral. Another friend is moving this weekend. Here is a link:

http://joseph/jaymin/software/ttg/index.htm

This contains the Pocket Empires game "alpha", which I didn't publish to the list (just for you guys!) and the current state of the Adventure game. I'll also post this message to the bulletin board (if I can, if I can't you post it for me). OK, just tried, I can't. Can you post this for me there? Yes, including the bits praising yourself for spurring me into this. :)
Thanks so much for your interest. I'll try to reward it appropriately.
Cheers,
Jo
 
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