The Armory

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

The pourpouse of this thread is to start somthing akin to the "Tools of the Trade" section of "Challenge" covering everything from sharpend sticks to TL30+ Phased Nuclear Pulse Hand Canons (if you are so inclined) but hopefully constrating on the weapons and accessories intersting and usefull to the Travellers and sutch of the era's of Traveller.

 

[Spiderfish]

Pardon?

You wish for a list of weaponry?

 

[Pagan priest]

Sharpened stick: cost Cr1 TL 0 RoF -- Range1.5 meters DMG (Crit) 1d3 (20) Size Medium Type Piercing

 

[SanDragon]

Merriam-Websters Unabridged dictionary. A large, two-handed bludgeoning tool used in the hope that something may sink in by osmosis.

TL: 2+ Price: 75 Cr Mass: 15 kg Type: bludgeon

 

[Glen Allen Mcinnes]

actualy I have noticed that there are a few holes in the weapons devlopmnt pathways like for side arms after the TL-5 Auto Pistol apart from a sideline of a spechial use Snub pistol at TL-8 their is nothing untill the Gauss pistol at TL-13 and I was hoping to see some esoteric melle weapons as well, since their is nothing like a bit of the old Ultra-Voilance with a grovie cool melle weapon

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by 313:
actualy I have noticed that there are a few holes in the weapons devlopmnt pathways like for side arms after the TL-5 Auto Pistol apart from a sideline of a spechial use Snub pistol at TL-8 their is nothing untill the Gauss pistol at TL-13 and I was hoping to see some esoteric melle weapons as well, since their is nothing like a bit of the old Ultra-Voilance with a grovie cool melle weapon

At least as far as small arms are concerned, i think this has been well covered in previous threads here.

Speaking as someone who has been involved in the fire arms industry as a designer and consultant, i can say that the problem with most SciFi personnel weapons, at least so far as military weapons are concerned, don'taddress the real issues that weapons designers are concerned with.

For example, the gauss rifle as describe in traveller really no much of an improvement over the rifle of today if examined in the light of real world weapons studies. it has more recoil, and is realistically not likely to offer any increase in hit probability (on the contrary, in fact). It does offer more energy, and more armor penetration, which will only be a factor if body armor is an issue. Things like gyroscopic stabilization (which sounds really neat and useful) has proven to be pretty much useless with small arms. Electronic sights do little to improve hit probability except in cases of low light or obscured targets.

You may want to look at some of the weapons threads posted here.

 

[Spiderfish]

Body armour becomes an issue though when people start going to war in battledress.

 

[kaladorn]

Even combat armour nicely stops most conventional weapons.

Plus, one point for Corejob to keep in mind: There are a lot of military arms out there, I have no doubt, given the size of the military forces in a Travellerverse. However, there are a lot of paramilitary, police, and militia style forces out there who deal with significantly different considerations for their weaponry than standard military applications, thus the weapons design for them may be significantly different. Additionally, of course, there are enough of these other types of use to justify an entirely separate line of weapons tailored for those sorts of needs.

It is always somewhat perilous to look at the trends of today and the real world and then try to extrapolate them into tomorrow and a fictional world.

 

[Todg]

Originally posted by kaladorn:
It is always somewhat perilous to look at the trends of today and the real world and then try to extrapolate them into tomorrow and a fictional world.

I agree. It is particulary perilous to extrapolate if you don't actually understand the design parameters of curret technology. The new OICW, a decendant of the SPIW program, is being buit to directly address the realitys of military small arms combat, not theories born on the rifle range.

building more complex, more accurate weapons is not going to have any effect on casualty rates on the battlefield.

One of my pet peeves is that the ACR and Gauss rifle of Traveller have a mucg better hit probability than the assault rifle. It's very unlikely that this will be the case, as I have posted elsewhere.

The gun has basically reached the apex of developement. It will be for the next weapon to take over. I'm not sure what that will be. Probably some sort of compact 'smart bullet launcher'. We'll see.

 

[Straybow]

"Smart bullet launcher" like the weapon from 5th Element?

 

[veltyen]

knife missiles (ala Ian M Banks Culture novels also see the hunter-seeker from Dune)

Small grav drive. Tiny computer with relatively bright AI/autonomous logic. Wrap it in an armored shell with a blade edge all the way arround. Slap on some sensors and basic vocal command.

The culture knife missiles had feild effect blades rather then physical ones.

If you have credits to burn you could also put explosives in the shell.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Corejob; that's pretty interesting. I think the Gauss justification was a negotiation of the rules verse it's effect. At least that was for CT. That is part of the weapon's effect was built into its to-hit roll to help simulate that extra energy you noted that's injected into the target. That being said I can't speak for TNE or T20, as I've never played them.

Some ex-military friends of mine tell me that the M-16 (and its cousins and derrivatives) are far more accurate than their Warsaw Pact counterparts. I keep hearing stories of how inaccurate the Kalashnikovs are, but how incredibly reliable they can be (stories of them being tossed in mud, snow, sand, dust, what have you, and still being able to rattle off a mag). That verse the M-16 family which is highly accurate (or so I've been told), but, at one point (notably during Vietnam) had a tendency to jam because of the tight fitting firing chamber. The AK-47 had more "slop" and therefore can be fired without too much maintenance, where the M-16 needs more care but is more reliable when it comes to hitting the target.

How true is that? And how would that fit in a Traveller framework?

Smart-rounds; some ten to fifteen years ago I saw an article in Popular Mechanics about a naval round that was outfitted with side jets. So that after it was fired it could fire microbursts from its side (while spinning) to alter its trjectory. My first thought was how such a round might be used in a sidearm.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Corejob; one more question, what's your opinion on the high energy weapons in Traveller? Would they actually have some kind of value on the battlefield? To me they always seemed to be oversized hand cannons. I have a hard time believing they'd be worth anything since their ROF is once a combat round. But that's just my impression.

In your professional opinion how do they rate?

 

[SanDragon]

Which Traveller rules set? I can't recall in reading my CT reprints, but if memory serves, one round in MegaTraveller was 6 seconds.

 

[Blue Ghost]

CT.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Pagan priest:
Sharpened stick: cost Cr1 TL 0 RoF -- Range1.5 meters DMG (Crit) 1d3 (20) Size Medium Type Piercing

Watch out! You could put somebody's eye out with that thing. I understand they're illegal at law level one!

 

[EntilZha]

How about some Martial Arts weapons for all the Karate/Ninja/Bruce Lee/Jackie Chan nuts?

Shuriken: Cost 5 cr; Wt. 50 g; Range 3m; Dmg(Crit) 1(x2); Size T; Type Piercing

Blowgun: Cost 5 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Range 3m; Dmg(Crit) 1(x2); Size S; Type Piercing; Ammo Weight negligible; Ammo Cost 5 cr. per 20 darts

Chakram (that thing Xena used to sling around): Cost 75 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Range 10m; Dmg(Crit) 1d4(x3); Size S; Type Slashing

Wakizashi: Cost 1500 cr; Wt. 1.5 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(19); Size S; Type Slashing; Masterwork weapon

Kama: Cost 10 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(x2); Size S; Type Slashing

Butterfly Sword: Cost 50 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(19); Size S; Type Slashing

Jitte: Cost 3 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d4(x2); Size S; Type Bludgeoning

Ninja-to: Cost 50 cr; Wt. 1.5 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(19); Size S; Type Slashing

Sai: Cost 5 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d4(x2); Size S; Type Bludgeoning

Tonfa: Cost 3 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(x2); Size S; Type Bludgeoning; May be used to deal subdual damage.

Nunchaku: Cost 10 cr; Wt. 1 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6(x2); Size S; Type Bludgeoning

Katana: Cost 2000 cr; Wt. 3 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d10(19); Size M; Type Slashing; Masterwork weapon

Blowgun, Greater: Cost 50 cr; Wt. 2 kg; Range 3m; Dmg(Crit) 1d3(x2); Size L; Type Piercing; Ammo Weight negligible; Ammo Cost 5 cr. per 10 darts

Nagamaki: Cost 40 cr; Wt. 5 kg; Dmg(Crit) 2d4(x3); Size L; Type Slashing

Naginata: Cost 50 cr; Wt. 8 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d10(x3); Size L; Type Slashing; Reach weapon

Kusari-Gama: Cost 50 cr; Wt. 1.5 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d6/1d4; Size L; Type Slashing/Bludgeoning; Double weapon

Three-Section Staff: Cost 20 cr; Wt. 4 kg; Dmg(Crit) 1d8(x3); Size L; Type Bludgeoning

I got most of the stats from the D&D D20 Oriental Adventures book. For the most part, these weapons will be TL 1, maybe 2. Here's a couple of weapons from the D20 version of the Babylon 5 RPG:

PPG: Cost 600 cr; TL 15; Weight 500 g; RoF 1; Range 20 m; Dmg(Crit) 2d8(19); Size S; Type Energy; Recoil No; Ammo 12; Ammo Wt. negligible; Ammo Cost 60 cr.

PPG Rifle: Cost 1500 cr; TL 15; Weight 2 kg; RoF 1/4; Range 50 m; Dmg(Crit) 2d8(19); Size L; Type Energy; Recoil No; Ammo 24; Ammo Wt. 250 g; Ammo Cost 90 cr.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Another non-reply to my post. Huh

Gettin' mighty sick and tired of this.

 

[Straybow]

Originally posted by Blue Ghost:
Some ex-military friends of mine tell me that the M-16 (and its cousins and derrivatives) are far more accurate than their Warsaw Pact counterparts. I keep hearing stories of how inaccurate the Kalashnikovs are, but how incredibly reliable they can be (stories of them being tossed in mud, snow, sand, dust, what have you, and still being able to rattle off a mag). That verse the M-16 family which is highly accurate (or so I've been told), but, at one point (notably during Vietnam) had a tendency to jam because of the tight fitting firing chamber. The AK-47 had more "slop" and therefore can be fired without too much maintenance, where the M-16 needs more care but is more reliable when it comes to hitting the target.

How true is that? And how would that fit in a Traveller framework?

Smart-rounds; some ten to fifteen years ago I saw an article in Popular Mechanics about a naval round that was outfitted with side jets. So that after it was fired it could fire microbursts from its side (while spinning) to alter its trjectory. My first thought was how such a round might be used in a sidearm.

I can answer in part. Yes, on a firing range you get better precision from the M-16. The ballistic precision of a Kalishnikov exceeds the accuracy of aim of the soldiers on the battlefield. For serious sniper work you don't use either weapon.

The problems with the first model of the M-16 were due to corrosion more than anything else. It wasn't designed for a tropical environment. Later models of M-16 issued in Vietnam didn't have problems, but the reputation lingered.

I already mentioned the weapon in Fifth Element as an example of smart bullets. Workable in some hypothetic future tech? Maybe.

 

[Blue Ghost]

Straybow; thanks for the answer. I've heard about "Jammin' Jenny's" reputation, but never got the full story.