The best first session I could hope for....

[arslayer]

So, I unleashed the Traveller RPG on my group tonight using the rules outlined in Starter Traveller (I just got my copy of MgT tonight and had not read it, so I could not unleash that beast.) I was amazed by a couple of things.

A) Each character sheet fit onto a 3x5 card.

B) Despite the so called "randomness" of traveller chargen, my group wanted to be brothers in arms in my "Colonial Marines", and followed the same military path (besides one who was drafted into Scout service).

C) I feel the need to tell others of this great session!

The thing that really threw me off guard was the fact that my group wanted to play out their (second) term. I was not quite sure what to do considering one of the group failed marine enlistment and was drafted into the scouts.

I came up with a simple battle between them and the planetary rebellion forces they were up against. The scout gentleman I ruled was a conscripted ship captain from another system that was sympathetic (i.e. paid by their cause). All of them survived the battle, however I decided that since the small rebellion was crushed they would be released from duty. I decided to give the Marines a Veteran's bonus of 10,000Cr plus four mustering out benefits. They served in a pinnacle battle of their homeworld and none of them were given a commission, but I felt they should get something extra despite their enlisted status.

The scout conscript got to keep his ship, and gave the grunts an offer to explore the subsector, promising them riches along the way. They all happily agreed as the current government on their homeworld was becoming increasingly non-secular... even though they had fought for the very same government.

 

[aramis]

Sounds like fun!

CT is remarkably flexible. And despite the name, the ONLY thing missing from Starter (vs The Traveller Book or Books 1-3) is the minis version of ship combat.

I'd simply have assigned the scout to assist them. Similar to your solution. For an Active Duty game, a scout can be seconded to a marine unit as transport, or the marines to a scout team as muscle, at least in the 3I.

 

[mike wightman]

Starter Edition doesn't have the drugs rules.

The range band combat system for ships is a better rpg ship to ship combat system than the full on vector version IMHO.

 

[Fritz_Brown]

Nicely done.

 

[BytePro]

So, I unleashed the Traveller RPG on my group tonight using the rules outlined in Starter Traveller (I just got my copy of MgT tonight and had not read it, so I could not unleash that beast.) I was amazed by a couple of things. ...

Sounds like you and, I bet, your players had a great time!

As to the things that amazed you - the first on the list is a subtle but extremely important aspect of CT Starter/LBBs 1-3, IMO. The minimalist character sheet is imbued with some subtle advantages:
- Players have little to distract them from RP
- Bulk of the 'character' must come from Player's minds, not their stats
- There is little there - so its easily remembered by Players, and Refs!
- Lack of skills encourages Players to not limit PC actions to just what they are 'good' at
- (Leaves plenty of table surface for drinks and food!)

Item B on your amazement list is an artifact of the flexibility inherent in, and despite, the limited number of options and minimal details provided in chargen. Its a well balanced system, IMO.

Another 'amazing' aspect of the minimalist nature of CT is the lack of a universal task mechanic with dozens and dozens of pre-defined tasks (MgT has nearly 50 in the skills listing of the Core book alone!). This avoids:
- Players limiting their mindsets to what PCs 'can/can't do'
(just because of what's written or not written in the rules)
- DM min/maxing
- Rules lawyering based on the extensive task listings in books
- Having to reference/remember all those extensive task listings.
- Having all the special rules and DMs to remember, debate and accommodate for difficulty, effect, timing, chaining, multitasking, situation, ...

CT has a number of predefined recommended task checks defined, notably unique ones by skill. But, not only are most of them phrased to support the Ref making their own call, they accommodate the unique skills very well (setting a good example for the Ref, IME), and despite their number, its actually less to remember than MgT's task system. At least in the core three/starter books. (BTW: To help me and my players, I note 'standard checks' on character index card sheets - which, given the limited number of skills, works well.)

Further, I've found that one often has to force fit a universal mechanic to actually accommodate RW roleplaying and the limited range of 2d6. Universal mechanics are great in theory and on paper - and a good way to train one's thought process, perhaps, but ultimately it just comes down to a target value against the numerical domain of the dice - and what the Ref believes should be the odds.

 

[Bob Weaver]

Starter Edition doesn't have the drugs rules.

The range band combat system for ships is a better rpg ship to ship combat system than the full on vector version IMHO.

The Experience Rules are missing from the Starter set as well. Of course, I played with only the Starter set for 5-6 years and never noticed the omission - leveling up just wasn't on my radar, I guess.

Cheers,

Bob W.

 

[Blue Ghost]

The Experience Rules are missing from the Starter set as well. Of course, I played with only the Starter set for 5-6 years and never noticed the omission - leveling up just wasn't on my radar, I guess.

Cheers,

Bob W.

Hey Bob, long time no see (read). I think experience rules are only listed in the Big Traveller book, aren't they? At least that's what I recall.

 

[aramis]

Another 'amazing' aspect of the minimalist nature of CT is the lack of a universal task mechanic with dozens and dozens of pre-defined tasks

Whereas CT core rules have multiple dozens of utterly inconsistent mechanical bits scattered throughout the rules... just stuff that skills or characteristics affect, Let's see... paging through TTB... and counting only stuff relating to resolving actions and modified by skill, attribute, or number of adventurers...
p. 22 - 5 of them
p. 23 - 5 more
p. 26 - 3 more plus guidlines for improvising a 4th
p. 27 - 3 more.
p. 28 - 2 more and an instruction to improvise a 3rd.
p. 34 - 2 more
p. 35 - 2 more*
p. 36 - bits that affect one of the page 35 systems*
p. 37 - more bits*, plus effects of load on attributes (and thus many actions)
p. 38 - even more bits*
p. 43 - yet still more bits*
p. 48 - even more bits*
p. 70 - skill modifier to a non-skill action on page 74 (and reiterated there)
p. 91 - a different vacc suit throw mechanic than the one on p 28.
p. 115/116 - 1, stated as table on 115, as prose on 116
p. 116-121 - psionics resolution - 6 skills each with multiple resolution mechanics
p. 129 - 2 specific to the adventure
p. 133 - 1 specific to the adventure
p. 135 - 1 specific to the adventure
p. 137 - 6 specific to the adventure
p. 138 - 3 specific to the adventure
p. 143 - 1 specific to the adventure, 1 general guideline
p. 144 - 2 specific to the adventure
p. 146 - 1 specific to the adventure

* these all tie into the combat resolution

35 discrete (and unique) skill resolutions, most of which distill down to "Roll X+ on 2d6, DM+Skill DM±1 for attribute Y+/Z-

I'd rather have the DGT task system, where I can just remember one of 5 difficulties. DGP's big failing was not providing an auto-success rule... as in, "simple tasks auto-succeed if skill 0+; routine if skill 2+, difficult if skill 4+, formidible if skill 6+, and Impossible if skill 8+."

And yes, I've seen a few skill 8 CT characters. One was even basic character gen (barbarian with sword 8. He don't miss.)

 

[BytePro]

Sure, basic CT has rules to reference. However, MgT has quite a few more - and its universal mechanic most certainly doesn't prevent having plenty of extra 'bits' scattered about.

CTs 'unique' mechanics accommodate different aspects of different skills and tasks. One could ignore these and use a more naively simple mechanic, reflecting odds more poorly. MgT's universal mechanic uses a host of DM possibilities to do what CT does - with the side effect that Players are more likely to be cognizant of them and play to them. Using a formatted definition vs CT's prose doesn't really alter the fact that each skill has its own mechanics - MgT's is just codified more tersely.

Both are simple. CT is, overall, simpler in actual implementation with less DMs, less predefined options and less math (trivial) . Naturally, saturation is also less likely.

Re: a skill 8 character - presuming you are referencing saturation. Sure, it could happen, but with Starter and LBB1-3 characters this is, of course, extremely unlikely and, more importantly, will mean the character is unlikely to be loaded with other skills. Having an extreme skill is a bit different than maxing a bunch of DMs to get a skill 2 character having the same benefit - along with a host of other skill.

 

[arslayer]

- (Leaves plenty of table surface for drinks and food!)

That is certainly the most important part. Cocktails tend to make it easier to get a group of new gamers.

I did finally read through my copy of MgT. I think it's pretty good so far (the art is kind of crappy, IMO) and a lot of things seem to be easily converted back and forth from/to CT. I'm going to be pretty happy for a while between the two systems.

 

[Shonner]

I like the Characteristic Modifiers in Mongoose Traveller. Probably the most important feature on the character sheet. And players can do checks themselves without relying on the ref to come up with DMs.

 

[BytePro]

Yeah, loved the concept of character modifiers. In use, didn't.

With a task system based on Skill-3 as an expert, such is to easy with +1 and +2 stats. Add a gear DM and a single term-er can is a +3 'expert' or better for a bunch of lousy skill/0s and 1s.

To be sure, this pleases the gamer half of the 'four-way split' - i.e. the powergamers and wargamers - easily identified with the low term JoT experts with two maxed stats.

 

[Shonner]

Yeah, loved the concept of character modifiers. In use, didn't.

With a task system based on Skill-3 as an expert, such is to easy with +1 and +2 stats. Add a gear DM and a single term-er can is a +3 'expert' or better for a bunch of lousy skill/0s and 1s.

To be sure, this pleases the gamer half of the 'four-way split' - i.e. the powergamers and wargamers - easily identified with the low term JoT experts with two maxed stats.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. The ref adds a difficulty DM to any situation. So there is no cake-walking going on in Mongoose Traveller.

 

[BytePro]

... And players can do checks themselves without relying on the ref to come up with DMs.

Obviously you are aware the Difficulty DM is explicitly spelled out for a good many checks - and most are Routine (+0).

Of course, one could jack Difficulty up for the min/max-ers in the group. Yeah, that will go over well!

As I posted - like the concept of universal mechanics and characteristic mods, but practically they are not without cons. Played MgT for several years - if there was no CT, it would be my favorite...

 

[Shonner]

Of course, one could jack Difficulty up for the min/max-ers in the group. Yeah, that will go over well!

Ok. I don't have min/max players in my group. Just professional role-players that can work with any situation they are in. Their characters are not trying to win a game. Plus, it's boring if they roll 8+ everytime. That is a Disney attraction ride, rather than an adventure.

 

[BytePro]

That's nice that you have a good group (professional role-players - you pay them?!?)- but I am talking about artifacts of the mechanics. Mechanics do not make bad roleplayers, but they can support them - just as they can interfere with good roleplaying...

Not sure how your players avoid rolling 8+, though, unless they are using loaded dice. :smirk:

I'm kidding (just as I assume you meant your players 'are not trying to win a game' )- but, to make a point... if I generate a PC with a stat of 12 (dice odds are low, but chargen increases those) for Dex or Int, the PC automatically (by the RAW) gets +2 on about 1/3 of all checks. Even with low skill levels, the PC is effectively an expert+ at way more things than I as a Player like. With all the skills MgT awards and adding some common gear - things can get ridiculous. No fault of the Player - its built into the mechanics.

Of course, good Ref and Players can work around this - but it means effort modifying/ignoring rules. Ex: I used higher of Jot or characteristic DM in play for a Player who generated, randomly, a high stat and high JoT PC in the course of attempting to get a totally different, non-min/maxed PC. (We could have dropped the JoT or changed the stat, of course - again, though, not RAW, which is what I am discussing.)

In line with this, are logical sounding rules which can otherwise inadvertently result in that 'Disney ride' feel - such as the Expert program rule of +1 DM to existing higher skilled. Aside from the mechanical aspects of this, on further thought a medic-3 won't gain anything from using an effective medic-1 expert system. Heck, probably even the opposite might hold true - essentially an expert is consulting a novice! (As a player, I actually did not use my comp for this - had it along for assistants and in-case of injury resulting in -DMs...)

I also found myself ruling that certain combat DMs are only in lieu of skill and characteristic DMs - allowing them when characteristic DMs dropped during combat or exceptionally.

 

[Shonner]

Even with low skill levels, the PC is effectively an expert+ at way more things than I as a Player like. With all the skills MgT awards and adding some common gear - things can get ridiculous. No fault of the Player - its built into the mechanics.

Of course, good Ref and Players can work around this - but it means effort modifying/ignoring rules.

Why are you working around rules and modifying them?

Ex: I used higher of Jot or characteristic DM in play for a Player who generated, randomly, a high stat and high JoT PC in the course of attempting to get a totally different, non-min/maxed PC. (We could have dropped the JoT or changed the stat, of course - again, though, not RAW, which is what I am discussing.)

You're changing the rules for using Jack of all Trades with Characteristic Modifiers also?

In line with this, are logical sounding rules which can otherwise inadvertently result in that 'Disney ride' feel - such as the Expert program rule of +1 DM to existing higher skilled. Aside from the mechanical aspects of this, on further thought a medic-3 won't gain anything from using an effective medic-1 expert system. Heck, probably even the opposite might hold true - essentially an expert is consulting a novice! (As a player, I actually did not use my comp for this - had it along for assistants and in-case of injury resulting in -DMs...)

I also found myself ruling that certain combat DMs are only in lieu of skill and characteristic DMs - allowing them when characteristic DMs dropped during combat or exceptionally.

I have not had to tweak any Mongoose rules. My players role-play according to what will advance the story in a more interesting way for the characters. If a player forgets to bring his tookbox (I don't correct or tell players what they should do to win) when doing a mechanic check and fails, he'll role-play it out after I tell him what happens then.

A novice using an expert system would simply be given a very difficult DM of -4 after adding the expert system DM. The -4 DM doesn't get erased just because there is an expert system on the kitchen counter in the common area of a ship. DMs may be different tough, depending on if the expertise needed involved EDU or DEX for the roll.

Then there is the Effect of the roll, which adds a lot to role-play for the players. Then it's on to more player interactions. My players are not standing around waiting for their turn to do accounting for their character sheet, trying to beat the system. The players do rolls often without even stating what they are rolling for, so role-play is not broken. Some rolls are to determine which way a story will go next. Most of the time, no rolls are made because it's role-played. I rarely roll dice. I'm just the referee.